Linguifex's conworld megathread

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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 12:08

Quick update—via sound change, I've discovered the following sentence in Middle Sỉsǒk Tlar Kyanà:

Bsyày bsyảy bsyày bsyȁy bsyày.
bsyày bsyảy bsyày bsyȁy bsyày
3SG.F carve rich partial.hole well
'she carves a wealthy hole in (as opposed to through) the well'
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Sun 12 Mar 2017, 10:13

I love you, Chaotic Shiny.

So this is the story of the Balloon War. (This is going to be told with a little more levity than usual because it's 5:00 AM here and I haven't gotten to sleep yet.)

One of the several empires that the Tim Ar got passed around was at war with a neighbor. There was one region in particular, situated on the border, that just would not fall to siege or sword. It had supply lines, resources, population, and a chokehold on moving people deeper into enemy territory. This ruffled quite a few feathers at home, because this particular city was vital if they wanted to make their way into the interior.

Enter some genius who was basically the analogue of the Montgolfier brothers. He builds a working hot-air balloon and gets the bright idea that, hey, maybe these things can be used for more than just impressing scientists. We can stake them into the ground and use them for aerial reconnaissance (as was done during the Civil War, incidentally). Then he gets another idea—maybe we can use them to drop troops or bombs on things. The wind currents were favorable at this location for sending balloons across enemy territory and then back into friendly areas (provided they could stay up that long, of course), so it wasn't necessarily a suicide mission.

Not-Montgolfier figures out how to keep the things aloft long enough for them to actually be of use and gives a demonstration. Laden with assorted pieces of garbage as ballast, he lifts into the air drops things on a field while inviting archers to shoot at him. Naturally something goes wrong and a few people die because A) he didn't properly anticipate where the things would actually fall (because air resistance, drag, what have you) and B) some people were idiots and wandered onto the field, but the balloon itself manages to avoid being turned into a pincushion. The brass is impressed enough that instead of summarily executing him they put him in charge of the invasion.

Ersatz Montgolfier was a brilliant scientist. He was a not-so-brilliant tactician. The balloons he designed were larger, less stable, not tested adequately, and in some cases jury-rigged. His weapons were scaled-up versions of typical incendiary devices and large pieces of debris, but at least these worked satisfactorily.

The day the invasion is scheduled to take place, there is poor visibility and high winds. The launch goes ahead anyway, with a hundred and fifty balloons. Of those, two ignite on the ground before properly inflating. One's canopy rips away just prior to takeoff and blunders into another, which catches on fire in the staging area. One collides with a building before gaining sufficient altitude to clear it and ends up wrapped around a bell tower; the balloon then catches the bell tower on fire, and the fire quickly spreads to envelop the local residential district. One is destroyed in the air when one of the onboard incendiary devices ignites; the balloon drifts into another, which somehow avoids burning up, and another, which isn't so lucky. One smacks into a mountain (it did not set the mountain on fire). Twenty-five manage to avoid bursting into flames long enough to discover that they have leaks and slowly lose altitude while in friendly territory; the canopy of another violently loses integrity several miles short of its target, sending it hurtling downward into a forest and sparking a massive wildfire. One crew pilots the balloon too high, passes out, and doesn't come to until they've missed all the action and wound up much farther away than planned. An additional twelve catch fire in the air en route to the city they're supposed to attack and lose their ability to do anything except plummet to the ground and kill the occupants. Seven more are destroyed when they drift under the trajectory of some of the rubble that was dropped. A final balloon suffers the misfortune of having the wires connecting the gondola to the envelope catching fire; the envelope continues on, blazing, while the gondola discovers why lithobraking is not a good idea if you're not a Kerbal.

For all the failure that occurs on behalf of the instigators, the people of the region below are taken unaware and completely demoralized. The air is foggy, but the day is otherwise normal until things start falling from the sky (blowing up in some cases) and destroying things. On top of that, there are a couple of huge, floating, flaming monstrosities that slowly drift downward, covering a large area with a blanket of fire before destroying themselves and everything they touch. Not to mention the huge forest fire that suddenly erupted relatively close to the city…

TL;DR: Despite everything going wrong, mission still somehow accomplished.
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by elemtilas » Sun 12 Mar 2017, 14:42

Linguifex wrote:So this is the story of the Balloon War. (...)

For all the failure that occurs on behalf of the instigators, the people of the region below are taken unaware and completely demoralized. The air is foggy, but the day is otherwise normal until things start falling from the sky (blowing up in some cases) and destroying things. On top of that, there are a couple of huge, floating, flaming monstrosities that slowly drift downward, covering a large area with a blanket of fire before destroying themselves and everything they touch. Not to mention the huge forest fire that suddenly erupted relatively close to the city…

TL;DR: Despite everything going wrong, mission still somehow accomplished.
NLEBH;RIA: I was beginning to wonder if ány of the balloons were going to make it! There's some good background here for the story of a valiant crew who's able to jury rig their balloon before falling prey to one of the ten thousand things that seem to plague this particular design and are then able to go on to carry out their mission.
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Wed 15 Mar 2017, 04:17

elemtilas wrote:NLEBH;RIA:
"Not long enough by half; read it all"?
elemtilas wrote:I was beginning to wonder if ány of the balloons were going to make it! There's some good background here for the story of a valiant crew who's able to jury rig their balloon before falling prey to one of the ten thousand things that seem to plague this particular design and are then able to go on to carry out their mission.
Thank you! I'm actually planning on having the event spawn off a few idioms and cultural metaphors for the Tim Ar.

I've decided this planet will have two moons with a 243:395 resonance in their orbital periods (same as Earth and Venus). Once certain groups figure out astronomy, the "restart" of the cycle will become a major holiday for those religions. Now I just have to figure out the calendar. One of the moons is pretty close in parameters to ours; the other is quite a bit further out and smaller (and has a higher albedo, to boot). I figure the tides will be somewhat more severe (and the cycles more of a headache) on this planet as a consequence.
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by elemtilas » Wed 15 Mar 2017, 14:53

Linguifex wrote:
elemtilas wrote:NLEBH;RIA:
"Not long enough by half; read it all"?
[tick]
Linguifex wrote:
elemtilas wrote:I was beginning to wonder if ány of the balloons were going to make it! There's some good background here for the story of a valiant crew who's able to jury rig their balloon before falling prey to one of the ten thousand things that seem to plague this particular design and are then able to go on to carry out their mission.
Thank you! I'm actually planning on having the event spawn off a few idioms and cultural metaphors for the Tim Ar.
Spiff! Definitely looking forward to reading more about this.

And anyway, airships are just so all that and a kettle of crisps. Any ideas what these early airships look like? Have you sketched any pictures?
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Thu 16 Mar 2017, 07:59

elemtilas wrote:Spiff! Definitely looking forward to reading more about this.
[:D] I have some idioms in mind—you don't go launching balloons in a windstorm 'don't go off half-cocked', a balloon offensive 'a situation that goes wrong but somehow still succeeds', floating in the air and sitting on a fire 'this isn't going to end well', attacking [city name] with balloons 'a stupid idea (especially one with popular support)', and piloting your balloon too high 'trying to work harder than or outperform everyone, leading to negative results'.

(Unrelated to that incident, there's also tëk mûr 'kick a tree', meaning 'make no progress'. You get things like ha3ál tëk n úmir 'tree-kicker', 'someone who can't/doesn't make any progress despite taking action' > 'obstinate person', 'powerless person', 'ineffectual person', 'bureaucrat (pejorative)'.)
elemtilas wrote:And anyway, airships are just so all that and a kettle of crisps. Any ideas what these early airships look like? Have you sketched any pictures?
I have some vague ideas. No sketches though.

OK, so calendars. I could use a lot of help on this, especially checking my math.

A few relevant pieces of information:
  • Local (solar) day is 22.10 hours.
  • Planet orbits primary every 398.27 local days.
  • Primary moon orbits planet every 29.81 local days.
  • Secondary moon orbits planet every 46.88 local days.
Selected calendar systems

Classical Khaya – 13 months, thirty-day months with every fifth month having twenty-nine days. Ten extra days a year leads to a leap month every three years. After five years, short months create thirteen extra days (close enough to fourteen, or two weeks), leading to a leap month every ten years. Each thirtieth year therefore has two extra months. At some point during the history of the calendar, leap years become an issue, so every forty-eight years, each of the thirteen "prime" months is given an extra day.
Spoiler:
.27 * 4 = 1.08 days out of sync per year
.27 * 4 * 12 = 12.96 days ~ 13 days
4 years * 12 cycles = 48 years
O – 10 months, eight of which have forty days and two of which have thirty-nine. When leap years became a problem, the system was changed so that, every eight years, all months have forty days—unless the year is also divisible by six (i.e., every forty-eighth year).
Spoiler:
.27 * 8 = 2.16
2.16 * 8 = 16.96
Waqwaq – 14 months, twenty-eight days per month. Six extra days per year, leading to a leap month after five years. This leaves two days left over during each five-year cycle, before the quarter-annual orbital lag is deducted. Every two decades, three days are added to the calendar, typically during the first, sixth, and eleventh months.
Spoiler:
5 years: 2 days - 1 sync = 1 day
10 years: 3 days - 1 sync = 2 days
15 years: 4 days - 1 sync = 3 days
20 years: 5 days - 2 sync = 3 days
Xiaoxiao – 13 months; even months have thirty days, odd months have thirty-one. Every fifth year, all months have thirty-one days. Every twenty-eight years, odd months have thirty-two days.
Spoiler:
13 * 30 = 390 days, 8 left over
1 3 5 7 9 11 13 = 7 days accounted for
8 days - 7 accounted-for days = 1 day left over
Every five cycles of this, there are five leftover days
2 4 6 8 10 12
Jädewan – 12 months, thirty-three days each, except the two months have thirty-four. At some point leap years get added, in which case a different month receives an extra day; later on than that, the system is adjusted for the extra 0.02 days—every fifty years, an additional leap year occurs; every two hundred years thus receives two extra days.
Spoiler:
12 * 33 = 396 days, 2 left over
Dujajikiswə – 13 months, alternating between thirty-one (odd months) and thirty days (even months). An extra week's worth of days is intercalated in a cycle of six years, six years, five years, six years, five years.
Spoiler:
1 1 1 2 1 1 | 1 2 1 1 1 2 | X 1 1 1 2 1 | 1 1 2 1 1 1 | 2 1 1 1 2 | 1 1 1 2 1 1 | . . .
6 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 . . .
Caber – 15 months, odd months have twenty-six days, even months have twenty-seven. A leap day is added to the ninth month every four years.
Spoiler:
400 / 15 = 26.67
15 * 27 = 405 days
405 - 398 = 7 days
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 = 7 months
Täptäg – 12 months, thirty-three days each. Nine days are added every four years.
Spoiler:
12 * 33 = 396 days, 2 left over
2 * 4 = 8 days, 8 days + 1 leap day = 9 days

I'm not sure which system I want the Tim Ar to eventually use. The Tim Ar are descended from the same culture as the O, but the Tim Ar's forebears in particular were conquered by many groups, the Khaya being the first such invaders. I could also see them adopting the Täptäg system due to trade (or conversely the Täptäg abandoning theirs in favor of whatever system it is the Tim Ar are using). Less plausible, but still an option, is the Caber system being imported. Thoughts?
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Fri 17 Mar 2017, 05:45

Another notes dump.
Spoiler:
P-Tlusa

p b → ʔ w
c ɟ → s z
V → Ø / w_C
u…u i…i → jo…u je…i
u i → o e / _Ca(C)#
wː → gː

toducie

T-Tlusa

t d → ʔ Ø
c ɟ → t d
VV → Vː
a aː → je jeː / _C(C)i(ː)

C-Tlusa

c ɟ → ʔ j
p b → f v
Antepenult vowels delete, with progressive voicing assimilation
Cː → C / {C,#}_
{u,i} → Ø / C0_C0
Ø → e / Cː_C
Ø → e / C_Cː

K-Tlusa

k g → ʔ h
a → o / P_
V0CV0C → V0CC / _V
Regressive voicing assimilation

V-Tlusa

b d ɟ g → β z ʝ ɣ / V_V
V → Vː / _CV#
V → Ø / VC_#
VCː → VːC
VC → Vː / _C
S1S2 → S1ː

F-Tlusa

p b t d c ɟ k g → ɸ β s z ç ʝ x ɣ / V_{V,#}
pː bː tː dː cː ɟː kː gː → p b t d c ɟ k g
{c,k} {ɟ,g} → s z / _E#
V → Ø / VC_#
a → o / oC_
a → e / eC_
uCu iCi → uCo iCe
V0FV0 → FV0
c ɟ ç ʝ→ tʃ dʒ ʃ ʒ

tatuptob → tatuʔtow ; ʔaʔupʔow ; tuftov ; tatuptob ; tatuːtob ; tasuptoβ
tuba → tuwa ; ʔuba ; tuva ; tubo ; tuːβ ; tuːβ
baɟːab → wazːaw ; badːab ; bajːab ; boɟːab ; baːɟab ; badʒaβ
gupti → guʔti ; gupʔi ; gufti ; hupti ; guːti ; gupti
kadbu → kadwu ; kabu ; kadvu ; ʔadbu ; kaːbu ; kadbu
padekːi → ʔadekːi ; paekːi ; vdekːi ; podeʔːi ; pazeːki ; pazes
patac → ʔatas ; paʔat ; fataʔ ; potac ; patac ; pasaç
pabiptuduta 'old ground' → ʔawʔtjodota ; pjebipʔuːʔa ; favːeduta ; pobiptutːa ; paβiːtuzuːt ; paβiptuzos
tubːegatuduta 'new ground' → tugːegatjodota ; ʔubːegaʔuːʔa ; tuvːegadːuta ; tubːehatutːa ; tuːbeɣatuzuːt ; tubɣesuzos

todutie 'river valley' → tozusie → tlusa

{o,e} → a / {u,i}_
z → l
{u,i} → Ø / _V
V → Ø / #C_CV
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Sat 18 Mar 2017, 01:33

The various languages of the Tlusa family are designated P-, T-, C-, K-, V-, F-, or N-Tlusa. The first four are named after the consonant that lenited to the glottal stop; V-Tlusa is so named because of its vowel effects; F-Tlusa, because all singleton stops lenited to their corresponding fricatives between vowels; and N-Tlusa, for its nasal processes.
Spoiler:
N-Tlusa

S[+ voice] → N / _S
S1S2 → S1ː → NS
S[+ voice] → N / #_ ! _VN
S[+ voice] → N / _#
u i → o e / CC_#
m → w / ! _P
{a,e} → o / _w
w → Ø / V_{C,#}
i → jo / B(C)(C)_(C)#
S0 → Ø / _VS0
o…o e…e → ə…o ə…e
{k,g} → Ø / _C
u o → ji je / _(C)(C)i
V → Ø / V(C)(C)_(C)(C)V(C)#
What follows is a comparison of the protolanguage and the subfamily progenitors. These are the numbers one to six, followed by thirty-six and two hundred sixteen.
Spoiler:
Proto-Tlusa

*egtub
*batpi
*bok
*bokpok
*boktab
*otabgik
*doki
*tuɟe

P-Tlusa


egtow
utʔi
uk
ukʔok
uktaw
otawgik
doki
tuze

T-Tlusa

egʔub
bjeʔpi
bok
bokpok
bokʔab
oʔjebgik
oki
ʔude

C-Tlusa

egtuv
vatfi
vok
vokfok
voktav
tavgik
doki
tuje

K-Tlusa

ehtub
botpi
boʔ
boʔpoʔ
boʔtab
otaphiʔ
doʔi
tuɟe

V-Tlusa

eːtub
baːpi
bok
boːpok
boːtab
otaːgik
doːk
tuːʝ

F-Tlusa

egtuβ
batpi
box
bokpox
boktaβ
sobʒix
dos
tuz

N-Tlusa

eŋtum
bante
mok
bəŋok
bəŋkam
otjok
njeki
tuɟe
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Thu 23 Mar 2017, 00:18

Just for future reference.

Also, stuff on Xiaoxiao.
Spoiler:
m̥ m n̥ n
p pʰ b t tʰ d k kʰ g ʔ
ts tsʰ dz kx kxʰ gɣ
ɸ β s h
ɹ
l ʟ ɑ̯̊ ɑ̯

u ɔ a œ ɛ y i

K → Ḱ / _E
O[± vc]R → O[± vc]R[± vc]
K → Ḱ / {y,i}_
ɑ̯̊ ɑ̯ → ɒ̯̊ ɒ̯ / V[+ round]_
N → N[+ place] / _C[+ place]
{ɑ̯̊,ɒ̯̊} {ɑ̥,ɒ̯} → å̯ a̯ / _{y,i}
h ʔ → j̊ j / {y,i}_

cç ɟʝ → ʃj ʒj
ɑ̯̊ ɑ̯ → o̯̊ o̯ / E_
jɛ j̊ɛ → ja j̊a

kxɛɑ̯ → cçɛɑ̯ → ʃjɛɑ̯ → ʃjɛo̯ → ʃjao̯ · XIAO
gɣɛa̯ → ɟʝɛɑ̯ → ʒjɛɑ̯ → ʒjɛo̯ → ʒjao̯ · JIAO
igɣon → iɟʝon
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Mon 01 May 2017, 05:10

Ghaazhgeen dump:
Spoiler:
Proto:

/m n ŋ/
/p pʰ b t tʰ d tʲ tʲʰ dʲ k kʰ g q qʰ ɢ ʔ/
/θ ð s z ʃ ʒ/
/l j/

/u o a e i/

(C)V(l/θ/s/ʃ/p/t/tʲ/k/q/ʔ)

S[- asp] → S[+ vc] / V_V
Vʔ → Vː / _%
{uju,ojo} → ujo → u̯o
aja eje iji → aː eː iː
ŏ ĕ → u i (! u̯_)
s z → ʃ ʒ / _i(ː)
V̆ → Ø / #(C)Vː(C)_(C)Vː
u uː oː a aː eː i iː → o ɔu̯ ɔː ə əː ɛː e ɛi̯ / _Q%
Q → Ø / _%
EK → ɛi̯ / _%
q(ʰ) ɢ → x ɣ
l → n / _%
Voicing assimilation
u i → o e / _CC (short only)
d dʲ → ɹ j / V_V
{p,pʰ,b} → Ø / V[+ high]_%
{p,pʰ,b} → u̯ / V_%
Vː → V̆ / _u̯
TʲC → Cː
Tʲ → T / _B
tʲ tʲʰ dʲ → tʃ tʃʰ j
VːCːVː → V̆CːV̆
{u,i} → Ø / V(C)_#
ɔu̯ ɛu̯ → ou̯ eu̯
V̆ → Ø / C_jV
i̯i i̯iː → i̯e i̯eː
ʔ → Ø
b d g → β ð ɣ / _{i,i̯}

If I did these right:

*ɢaʔsekejel → ɣaːʒgeːn ǥaažgeen
*tʲotuʔθek → tuɹuːθei̯ turuuței
*ʃistʲaʔ → ʃestʃaː šesčaa
*moloq → mulo mulo
*dʲadejep → i̯aɹeu̯ iareu
*ðiʔtʲiqʔiʔ → ðexːi đek̦k̦i

*dadʲi → dai̯ dai
*dadʲi-k → ði̯ei̯ diei
*dadʲi-ʃu → ði̯eʃ dieš
*dadʲi-ʔol → ði̯eu̯n dieun
*dadʲi-

*dadʲ-i → dai̯ dai
*dadʲ-ik → ði̯ei̯ diei
*dadʲ-ʃu [datʲ-ʃu] → daʃʃu daššu
*dadʲ-ʔol [datʲ-ʔol] → dau̯n daun
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Thu 02 Aug 2018, 02:09

Has it really been over a year since I've posted in this thread? Man…

I've been through the wringer but, hopefully, I can continue.
So I was messing around with gleb the other day and I hit upon something interesting. After modifying it, I have the following phonology.

/m n/
/p b t d tʲ dʲ k g/
/ɾ j w/
/ʎ ʟ/

/i e a ɨ o u/
/ь ъ m̩ n̩/ (I guess the nasals here are considered yers)

(K)(X)(C)(R)V(U) syllable structure, where:

K = One of /k g j w ʎ ʟ ь ъ/
X = One of /p t tʲ k n ɾ m w ь ъ/
C = Any consonant, or /ь ъ/
R = One of /ɾ j w ʎ ʟ/
U = One of /p b t d tʲ dʲ k g ɾ j w ʎ ʟ/
  • Before /ʎ j i ь/, /t d/ become [tʲ dʲ].
  • Most initial geminate sequences simply degeminate. With coronals, it's a bit more complex. There's some progressive voicing assimilation for coronal stops that happens, and then the sequences /ttʲ ddʲ tʲt dʲd/ become [stʲ zdʲ ʃt ʒd].
I think I'm just going to write /ɾ/ as r for convenience. Also, y for /j/ because that's how I worked on this in zompist's gen, and similarly with [ʃ ʒ] š ž.

The yers tend to signify that something has screwed up, especially when /r/ gets involved as it is low on this language's sonority hierarchy—more plosive-like than resonant-like. In the typical case the yers crop up due to a violation of the sonority hierarchy, but are technically phonemic because there's only really four of them, and even then most of the time [m̩] assimilates to [n̩]. Palatal phones become /ь/, while velars become /ъ/, and the nasals just syllabify and assimilate to a following labial or coronal.

The yers do various things in various languages. In some they are reflected as spirantization or voicing. In others, you end up with palatalization or labialization/velarization, as appropriate. In still others they simply drop, while they are "promoted" to full vowels in others still. Add vowel dissimilation or centering into the mix in some languages and you have a recipe for disaster awesomeness.
  1. yu
  2. tʲwɨ
  3. ьtidʲ
  4. krɨy
  5. tyedʲ
  6. ьdʲɨt
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elemtilas
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by elemtilas » Thu 02 Aug 2018, 16:34

Linguifex wrote:
Thu 02 Aug 2018, 02:09
Has it really been over a year since I've posted in this thread? Man…

I've been through the wringer but, hopefully, I can continue.
Good to see you're still at it! I also hope you'll continue, fruitfully multiplying all the goodness of your worlds for us to read here!
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If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
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gestaltist
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by gestaltist » Fri 03 Aug 2018, 13:16

I'm confused about initial yers. AFAIK, Slavic yers were always postconsonantal. Could you explain a bit more about how your yers work?
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Linguifex
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Sat 04 Aug 2018, 03:27

gestaltist wrote:
Fri 03 Aug 2018, 13:16
I'm confused about initial yers. AFAIK, Slavic yers were always postconsonantal. Could you explain a bit more about how your yers work?
OK, so basically, the yers in this language started out as allophones of resonants or glides that got stuck on the wrong side of an obstruent (*r was more obstruent-like than resonant-like in the synchronic presentation of the protolanguage, so if you had, say, *yr- then *y syllabified). Basically the palatal liquids became , the velar liquids became , and the nasals simply turned into their own little syllable nucleus. (That reminds me, I have to add *y into the *X consonant class.)
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Linguifex
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Linguifex » Thu 30 Aug 2018, 04:32

Notes on the Tim Ar-O cultural complex

The Proto-Tim Ar-O culture (PTO) is believed to have been associated with the Notched Stick culture (NSC). The NSC is noted for its decorated sticks—not necessarily notched; there are also scored, drilled, painted, and otherwise-decorated artifacts, not all of which are sticks—that appear to have served a purpose similar to quipu. The NSC appears to have resided a moderate distance north of the Burning Mountains in the western portion of the supercontinent. In this area, temperate forest and grassland meet the only sizable steppes on the entire planet, which constitutes a region approximately the size of the United States.

What is notable about the PTO is that, much like the Inca, they appear to have lacked a writing system entirely; the eponymous notched sticks appear to have related information such as tax calculations and census data in a manner, as stated above, akin to quipu. Our first written evidence of the culture that would split off into the Tim Ar and the O (among others) comes from the Classical Khaya, who called them Fiha 'people of ten' after their unusual base-ten counting system (the Classical Khaya used a base-twelve system). After some time exacting tribute from various fringe areas of the NSC, the NSC appears to have fallen victim to a combination of famine and conquest by the Classical Khaya, some being absorbed and others scattering.

One constant throughout the various descendant groups is a strong emphasis on bloodlines in some way. The Tim Ar either developed this into a or retained an original system of extended kinship that involves skin groups, of which there are twenty—sixteen "full" and four "immigrant"—which govern an individual's marriageability and legal descent. The O feature a more general areal and familial system. Regardless, the emphasis on blood ties is strong in most daughter cultures, which generally consider the family one's highest priority.
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