Sharing space with other species

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LinguistCat
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Sharing space with other species

Post by LinguistCat » Tue 16 May 2017, 15:13

If humans met another species with similar needs in planet habitability, but with slight differences in specifics (the main one being slightly warmer or cooler climates), which do you think would be the most likely to result in (mostly) peaceful interactions:

1. ALL of the preferences of the two species being taken into account and habitable planets in each star system being split more or less equally

2. any system that is settled by one species is theirs in its entirety, except by special allowance by that species (there's a planet that one species finds habitable just barely but the other cannot live on without intensive terraforming)

3. all systems are shared when possible, with planets inside a certain part of the shared habitable zone of the star going to one species, and any farther out going to the other. But otherwise systems belong to the species that settles them if there's one habitable world.

4. Some other system. (Though I ask if you go with this you explain what that might be)

I do want to mention that people of either species can visit most settled worlds if they wish to, with some form of permission from the government of that species/planet. I'm just deciding how things would be portioned out. It doesn't have to be a perfect system, just one that is generally good enough with no MAJOR flaws.
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sangi39
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Re: Sharing space with other species

Post by sangi39 » Tue 16 May 2017, 18:51

My guess would be that it might come down to the amount of overlap in available areas that can be inhabited easily by both species, as well as stuff like resource availability even just the mindset of various groups in relation to defence and the threat of resource loss or area loss.

If, for example, each species uses unmanned technology to obtain resources from regions they can't inhabit physically without using resources on precautions to keep them alive, then simple habitability isn't the only issue each species would be concerned with.

Similarly, if each species ever feels like the other might threaten to cause them harm or limit their access to resources, then they might not feel comfortable sharing a single planetary system together or even have things like enclaves within their wider territory.

It also probably depends on how unified each species is politically. Is their a singular "government" of sorts making political, economic and social decisions for each species or are they divided as the Earth currently is? And what happens if the political state shifts?
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Re: Sharing space with other species

Post by svld » Fri 19 May 2017, 07:30

Maybe something like the Goa'uld?
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Re: Sharing space with other species

Post by Pabappa » Mon 20 Nov 2017, 19:18

Humans seem to need to make every place they live securely a human territory, and Im not sure how well we'd cope with having a second species living in and among our own habitats. Your question seems to assume this, and that the other species also would prefer to have territory dedicated to its own kind, with humans either absent or present only with permission.

I dont really work with space and futuristic scenarios, so I cant really pull from my own conworld to offer suggestions here. I would think option #1 seems best, since it seems to give the members of each species the most choices of where to settle, and planets that are uncomfortable for one species will end up being settled by them only very sparsely, but they would still retain ownership of natural resources. I still want to see a true symbiosis develop, with both species living side by side, even though I generally avoid that in my own writing since all of my species are enemies by their very nature. I guess a lot depends on what this other species is ... is it a species that would, in a low-tech world dominated by the laws of nature, be unable to get along with humans? I'm tempted to think the other species is a cat, based on your username and some of the posts you've made, but ... if this is a futuristic scenario, the cats may have evolved as much from their wild ancestors as we have from ours, and have little in common with either housecats or wildcats on Earth.

I'd say that if true, side-by-side, commensal symbiosis is inconvenient, I still think option 1) sounds the most likely to produce a lasting peace.
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Re: Sharing space with other species

Post by Salmoneus » Mon 20 Nov 2017, 23:28

It clearly depends entirely on the economic structure underpinning interstellar travel and colonisation.

Some contexts clearly will favour paranoid solutions: every system is controlled entirely by one species, ideally probably pre-allocated based on objective criteria, either of characteristics or of location, or a combination of the two, in a sort of interstellar cold war. This minimises the short-term potential for conflict.

Other contexts will favour cosmopolitan solutions: every settlement has open borders and people of either species can come and go as they wish, and there's no such thing as "the species' government" in the first place; political divisions then are unrelated to ethnic divisions. This maximises cultural and economic exchange, increases short-term vulnerability, but probably increases the chances for long-term peace.

Or, the context may favour anything between these extremes.

Exactly the same, in fact, as has occured on Earth. We've had contexts dominated by nationstates obsessed with ethnic purity; and we've had contexts dominated by cosmopolitan exchanges of people and populations.
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Re: Sharing space with other species

Post by sam » Fri 24 Nov 2017, 04:19

Spoiler:
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Re: Sharing space with other species

Post by eldin raigmore » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 21:28

LinguistCat wrote:
Tue 16 May 2017, 15:13
If humans met another species with similar needs in planet habitability, but with slight differences in specifics (the main one being slightly warmer or cooler climates), which do you think would be the most likely to result in (mostly) peaceful interactions:

1. ALL of the preferences of the two species being taken into account and habitable planets in each star system being split more or less equally

2. any system that is settled by one species is theirs in its entirety, except by special allowance by that species (there's a planet that one species finds habitable just barely but the other cannot live on without intensive terraforming)

3. all systems are shared when possible, with planets inside a certain part of the shared habitable zone of the star going to one species, and any farther out going to the other. But otherwise systems belong to the species that settles them if there's one habitable world.

4. Some other system. (Though I ask if you go with this you explain what that might be)

I do want to mention that people of either species can visit most settled worlds if they wish to, with some form of permission from the government of that species/planet. I'm just deciding how things would be portioned out. It doesn't have to be a perfect system, just one that is generally good enough with no MAJOR flaws.
I think my conculture Reptigan's system counts as "4. some other system", though it nods somewhat toward all of your first three options.
The three most-important-so-far "species" in Reptigan are humans, AIs, and "space centipedes".
Space-centipedes' home planet's mass is about 3 earth-masses, and their home star is a class K orange dwarf.

There is a general agreement that planets massing less than 1.5 earth-masses will be allotted to the humans, and planets massing more than 1.5 earth-masses will be allotted to the space-centipedes, if there are no special circumstances that warrant an exception and both species agree.
If a star's system has two (or more?) habitable bodies, one lighter than 1.5 earth-masses and one heavier than 1.5 earth-masses, the lighter planet will be allocated to the humans and the heavier planet allocated to the space-centipedes; so each species will have a planet in that system.
There is also a general agreement that star-systems for G-class and F-class stars will go to humans, whereas those with K-class and M-class stars will go to the space-centipedes. But the rule concerning planetary mass takes precedence over this rule. Also, if there's a good reason to make an exception, and both species agree, an exception will be made.

There are also differences in the physiological abilities of the various species to work in certain environments.
First: the AIs are most adapted to interstellar travel unprotected.
Therefore they're almost always the first to explore a new star-system, and describe and classify its celestial bodies, including its planets, dwarf planets, planetesimals, and satellites.
They always report their discoveries to the humans, because every AI still has an inborn desire to serve humanity (though for many of them the question rarely comes up).
They also always report them to the space-centipedes, in part because the humans have asked them to.
They also always report to the AIs-as-a-whole, because the place at which such reports are received, is shared by the humans, the space-centipedes, and the AIs;
and also to any other species in the Union, because they, too, are represented among the body who receive such reports.

If structures (habitats or whatever) must be built in interplanetary space in a new star-system, the first workers to move in will almost always be, in the majority, space-centipedes, because they are well-adapted to working in interplanetary space with no or minimal environmental protection and minimal supplies. (There may also be many AI workers, at least at first.)
Once these interplanetary orbital structures are built and readied for habitation, if the star-system has been designated "for humans", most of the space-centipede outerspace-construction-workers (or spacewalking-workers of whatever industry) will move on to another job opportunity; but some will alway stay on.

If there is a planet that is either habitable, or "terra-formable", it will be settled and developed mostly by the species to which it was assigned; quickly if it's already habitable, less quickly if it needs "terraforming" (or "space-centipede-home-planet -forming").
In the latter case, early on there will be a lot of assistance from AIs.

If it's not appropriate for any largish colony of biological intelligences (e.g. humans or space-centipedes) to settle and reside and raise families in the star-system, the star-system is likely to remain in control of the AIs; unless they, also, find nothing of value there.

Whichever species gets assigned the planet ends up forming the majority of its population.
But the agreement that formed the Reptigan Union (I suppose that's their constitution?) encourages the species that "owns" a planet to welcome members of other species that belong to the Union and want to live on the planet. And the populations of most planets do just that.
Nevertheless, the humans who settle on space-centipede-owned worlds, tend to be very tolerant of high gravity and other environmental factors common to such worlds. And there tend to be more of them settled on lighter space-centipede-owned worlds, and/or worlds with brighter suns, than on the heavier worlds or the worlds with dimmer suns.
Likewise, the space-centipedes who settle on human-owned worlds, tend to be very tolerant of low gravity and other environmental factors common to such worlds. And there tend to be more of them settled on heavier human-owned worlds, and/or worlds with dimmer suns, than on the lighter worlds or the worlds with brighter suns.

I have it in mind that the Reptigan Union will also include other species; but I haven't designed any others yet, nor have I decided how many there should be.

Artificial Intelligences are manufactured mostly by other AIs these days; but many are still manufactured by humans.
If an AI needs maintenance, it's sometimes better to have it done by a human than by another AI.
Space-centipedes don't manufacture AIs, and few of them do much in the way of maintaining AIs.
So if a space-centipede-owned planet has a significant AI population, they probably immigrated there. Or, maybe, a significant human minority is also there, and was there first.

There are many more K- and M- -class stars than there are G- and F- and A- -class stars.*
OTOH there are many more planets lighter than 1.5 earth masses than there are planets heavier than 1.5 earth masses.
So it's hard to tell whether this system favors one or the other species.

*There's no point trying to settle in the close neighborhood of an O-class star. I don't know whether it could be practical to settle near a B-class star.
IIANM; M-class stars outnumber the sum of O and B and A and F and G and K-class stars;
K-class stars outnumber the sum of O and B and A and F and G-class stars;
G-class stars outnumber the sum of O and B and A and F-class stars;
and so on. Each spectral class** outnumbers the sum of all brighter/hotter spectral classes.
**Except of course class O, the hottest and brightest.
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