Naming Practices

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Naming Practices

Post by elemtilas » Sun 08 Apr 2018, 17:54

eldin raigmore wrote:
Fri 06 Apr 2018, 07:00
I have been reading “The Namesake ” by some famous young Bengali authoress. Apparently Bengali children are given a “pet name“ while still pretty young. This name may be lighthearted or meaningless. This is the name that the child is called en famille and by any intimate acquaintance in private for their entire life. A child is not given a “good name“ until they have to register for school. This name is chosen very seriously by consulting the child’s parents’ elders. It is the name they are called in public; it is the name that is written on all documents; and so on. An example given by the authoress, is that If the child’s grandmother in Kolkata write a letter to the Child in Boston, the envelope will carry the child “good name” , while the body of the letter itself will call the child by the child’s “pet name”.


What I called the “Nickname” given (on Adpihi) to a baby boy by his father’s mother or to a baby girl by her mother‘s father, corresponds to the Bengali “pet name“. On the other hand, the two-part formal individual name inherited from the child’s (sometimes collateral) ancestors, which I called the “formal individual name”, corresponds to the Bengali “good name”.
Ah, interesting system! Thanks for that tidbit!
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
alynnidalar
roman
roman
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun 17 Aug 2014, 02:22
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Naming Practices

Post by alynnidalar » Tue 10 Apr 2018, 18:14

I've been thinking about incorporating something similar into Tirina naming practices. I guess they already do have private nicknames, but it's not quite the same thing.

I'm sure I've spoken about the system before, but as it currently stands, a Tirina name has three parts:

[given name] ni [ancestral name] rıl [family name]

Starting from the end, family names are your family/clan/??? name. Basically, the name that everyone in your extended family shares, that denotes what legal family unit you are a part of. These names come from a variety of sources, such as archaic words, personal names, place names, modern words, or simply made up wholesale. In modern times, newly-formed families usually use the head of the family's personal name. Sanmra isn't a large country, with fewer than 2 million inhabitants, but there still is plenty of overlap of family names. (additionally, if you're disowned and thus legally have no family, you would use your own personal name.)

Ancestral names are usually a patronymic or matronymic, depending on your gender. (that is, women typically use their mother's name while men use their father's name) If one parent is notably of a higher status than the other (e.g. a political figure) or if the other parent is dead, a person might instead use the "wrong" parent's name. In certain cases, it's also allowed to use the name of a particularly notable ancestor. (you must be able to legally demonstrate descent from such a person to use their name) Most commonly, you'd see this with descendants of Tirina, the first leader of Sanmra; if both of your parents are "ni Tirina", then you're allowed to use it yourself.

Given names are your unique identifier; it would be unusual for two people to have the exact same combination of personal, ancestral, and family names. Given names come from a wide variety of sources, including nouns, pleasant-sounding adjectives, and names of ancestors. As in a lot of cultures, most names don't have transparent meanings, even if historically they came from a noun or phrase. Foreign names are quite rare, although not actually illegal.

Together, these three parts make up a person's legal name in Sanmra, even if they're not likely to actually use them together. Ordinarily, a person is referred to by their given name only. When introducing someone, you would either use their given name + ancestral name or given name + family name, depending on the situation.

But! People also have nicknames, which their family and close friends use. There are standard nicknames for most common names (e.g. Yana for Yarwe), although some people have totally disconnected ones (e.g. Derder "blonde" for someone named Amudan). A marker of a close friendship is telling someone that they can use your nickname (or coming up with a unique nickname just between you--this is also common in romantic relationships). Generally, you don't get a choice in what your family calls you, so you'd better hope you don't do anything hilariously unique as a child that makes a good nickname.

A few names with their nickname versions:
Yarwe -> Yana
Alın -> Lıni, Lıs
Rulo -> Ru
Kasni -> Kasi, Kari, Kas
Mra'al -> Mara
Amir'i -> Miri, Ama
Saya -> Sai, Sara
Edara -> Edi, Dani for women; Eda, Dana, Dawa for men

(you'll notice that not all of the "nicknames" are actually shorter than the full versions!)
User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 2960
Joined: Sat 04 Jan 2014, 04:47
Contact:

Re: Naming Practices

Post by k1234567890y » Tue 10 Apr 2018, 18:27

the long-longs often have a "child name" which consists of a reduplication of syllables suffixed with the marker popo; besides they have another name as their real name. The "child name" is often of the form CVCV or CVNCVN, with the second syllable being the reduplication of the first syllable.

The real name is given when they are hatched, but they are usually called by their "child name" before they reach the sankel or sankeye stage, and are only called by their real name after they grow up; however, there are exceptions to these, some long-longs don't have a different "child name", and there are some long-longs that are known by their "child name" even when they grow up.
私のアツい人工言語活動!言カツ!始まります!!
User avatar
eldin raigmore
fire
fire
Posts: 6190
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 18:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Naming Practices

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 11 Apr 2018, 17:52

alynnidalar wrote:
Tue 10 Apr 2018, 18:14
I've been thinking about incorporating something similar into Tirina naming practices. I guess they already do have private nicknames, but it's not quite the same thing.
... (stuff shipped to save space although it was still relevant) ...
(you'll notice that not all of the "nicknames" are actually shorter than the full versions!)
I really like this!

@k1234567890y, I liked your post too.
hoeroathlo
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon 13 Oct 2014, 14:38

Re: Naming Practices

Post by hoeroathlo » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:04

The naming practice of the Abs archipelago ha three names plus place of birth when being formal:
[Given name] [Middle name] [Surname] [place name]

Given name: The given name is made of two parts usually with symbolic meanings with the first part being some kind of descriptor and the second a complement to the descriptor; the parents chooses them through a variety of ways anywhere from astrological signs to things the parent want their child to be like/inherit. And usually the father gives the daughters name and the mother the son’s name.

example:

Aegmundi

Aegvi from Aegvir literally meaning wolf but has a symbolic meaning of strength, aggression, or fearceness

Mundi from Amundr meaning great

So when put together Aegmundi literally means wolf great but has a metaphorical meaning of great strength or power

Middle names : are usually derivatives of the parents name and are modified by the ending of the given name; with a daughter’s middle name coming from her mother and a son from his fathers.

Example:
Let’s say aegmundi had a son named Ytir then his middle name would be aegmuntir
Or that aegmundi has a wife named eliam and they had a daughter named Mauda her middle name would be eliamda

surnames: last names are usually found in pairs with one of two endings –ig meaning son or –ona meaning daughter, and are a combination of one of the two last names of the parents with a sons last name being comprised of the first last name of the father and the second of the mothers, and the daughter the opposite.

Example: Let’s continue with Aegmundi and eliams family, and give them both full names:

Aegmundi johendi elma-fubretig
Eliam maram laehert-kombrona

So with their names the son and daughter can have full names too

Ytir Aegmatir Elam-Kombrig
Mauda eliada Laehert-Fubretona

place Name : the place name is usually only added on to a name in formal situations where people don’t know you.

Example:

Aegmundi johendi elma-fubretig ta Ergeskopt
Eliam maram laehert-kombrona ta Aegmundi
Ytir Aegmatir Elam-Kombrig ta Ergeskopt
Mauda eliada Laehert-Fubretona ta Ergeskopt
User avatar
alynnidalar
roman
roman
Posts: 1036
Joined: Sun 17 Aug 2014, 02:22
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Naming Practices

Post by alynnidalar » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:55

There's some nice complexity in there. I like that you'd be able to figure out much of a child's same-gender parent's name from the child's name. Definitely seems like a society that emphasizes family relationships and tracks them.
User avatar
eldin raigmore
fire
fire
Posts: 6190
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 18:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Naming Practices

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 16 Apr 2018, 00:46

hoeroathlo wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:04
The naming practice of the Abs archipelago ha three names plus place of birth when being formal:
[Given name] [Middle name] [Surname] [place name]
....
surnames: last names are usually found in pairs with one of two endings –ig meaning son or –ona meaning daughter, and are a combination of one of the two last names of the parents with a sons last name being comprised of the first last name of the father and the second of the mothers, and the daughter the opposite.

Example: Let’s continue with Aegmundi and eliams family, and give them both full names:

Aegmundi johendi elma-fubretig
Eliam maram laehert-kombrona

So with their names the son and daughter can have full names too

Ytir Aegmatir Elam-Kombrig
Mauda eliada Laehert-Fubretona
....
I like that!

Can you expand the example to give full-names to their son’s son, their son’s daughter, their daughter’s son, and their daughter’s daughter?
I’m particularly interested in what happens to their half-surnames in two or more generations (depending on sexes etc.)
hoeroathlo
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon 13 Oct 2014, 14:38

Re: Naming Practices

Post by hoeroathlo » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 19:15

I like that!

Can you expand the example to give full-names to their son’s son, their son’s daughter, their daughter’s son, and their daughter’s daughter?
I’m particularly interested in what happens to their half-surnames in two or more generations (depending on sexes etc.)
here you go: https://imgur.com/HvqRD7a

also I came up with those names from memory so they're not all that great but I think that'll work for what you're asking.
also also I misspelled Fubretig for Joherts name and there sin'y suppose to be a dash before his name.
User avatar
eldin raigmore
fire
fire
Posts: 6190
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 18:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Naming Practices

Post by eldin raigmore » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 21:07

So the man’s daughter’s son keeps the “Fubret-“
and the woman’s son’s daughter keeps the “Kombr-“.

Just like the Mundugumor geun (“rope”).
User avatar
Linguifex
roman
roman
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri 03 Aug 2012, 07:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Naming Practices

Post by Linguifex » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 04:35

I've been doing some work on the conworld of late and I have revamped the Tim Ar naming conventions.

Tim Ar individuals' names can be broken down into

given name + + patronymic + soʕ + skin group + üm + cross-skin group + ðên + locative
  • The given name is typically a (short) nominalized sentence—e.g. Éðenȝuúühé from éðen ȝuú ü hé 'he rides the wind' or Áʕeimhromskúlnhéü from áʕe imhr omskúl n hé ü 'his enemies are ashes'. These are typically full of bluster and bravado, and often have a subtle layer of meaning that is left implicit: Éðenȝuúühé's name implies that he has tamed the wind, for instance.
  • The patronymic is the given name of one's father.
  • The skin group, a concept I adapted from indigenous Australia, is a sort of kinship classifier that identifies one's extended heritage and governs what groups of people are marriageable. One's skin group is, with a few exceptions, inherited from one's same-sex parent, and marriage is typically forbidden within a skin group.
  • The cross-skin group is the skin group of one's opposite-sex parent (again, with a few exceptions). One is also forbidden from marrying into one's cross-skin group.
  • The locative identifies the place one ostensibly originates from; this can be a region, province, area, county, city, neighborhood, or landmark. Requirements for using a locative are quite loose and nowadays many are simply passed down patrilineally.
For instance, two of the Tim Ar characters in my setting are Éðenȝuúühé ré Áʕeimhromskúlnhéü soʕ Ðaúʕ Rékó üm ĝ 'Etȝał ðên Suʕekól and Uiriöðêʕhaðáliénhuhé ré Áʕeðésetôlóünhé soʕ Úȝtára üm ĝ ‘Etȝał ðên Kuasakua. These names are incredibly unwieldy, so usually a name of address is used when speaking to or about them. A name of address is typically formed from the salient feature or handful of features from the given name; these characters, for instance, would typically be called Ȝuú (literally 'wind', pragmatically 'Wind(y)') and Uiri.
(Avatar via Happy Wheels Wiki)
Index Diachronica PDF v.10.0
Conworld megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
Post Reply