Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » Wed 18 Jul 2018, 23:12

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Wed 18 Jul 2018, 22:15
elemtilas wrote:
Wed 18 Jul 2018, 21:54
I'd hazard more a guess of "Sharia": Canon Law doesn't touch on secular matters (at least in modern times) the way I'm guessing the Mantian system probably does. Also, Canon Law is based on Roman secular law, not on anything specific in the Bible. No comparison there.
Yeah, Sharia is a closer parallel. While a secular ruler can't overtly make decisions about doctrine, it is a ruler's job to enforce the doctrine and the laws on secular matters that come from the religious texts and a ruler that doesn't do so would (ideally) be deposed and replaced with one who enforced the religious law more faithfully.
Interesting!

Not exactly parallel in Auntimoany, as there are no religious doctrines explicitly maintained by the secular parts of the government, but the notion that the emperor can (and should) be removed for not upholding justice and good government is very much a (supra)religious matter. One of the great constitutions of the Empire is the Commission of Heaven, like the Mandate of Heaven in ancient and modern China *here*, but if one doesn't uphold not only secular law but also the social morality and religion in general terms, the Commission may be revoked. Often with terminal consequences. They take their sacred kingship very seriously in Auntimoany!
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
Salmoneus
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 18:37

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Salmoneus » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 00:46

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Wed 18 Jul 2018, 22:15
elemtilas wrote:
Wed 18 Jul 2018, 21:54
I'd hazard more a guess of "Sharia": Canon Law doesn't touch on secular matters (at least in modern times) the way I'm guessing the Mantian system probably does. Also, Canon Law is based on Roman secular law, not on anything specific in the Bible. No comparison there.
Yeah, Sharia is a closer parallel. While a secular ruler can't overtly make decisions about doctrine, it is a ruler's job to enforce the doctrine and the laws on secular matters that come from the religious texts and a ruler that doesn't do so would (ideally) be deposed and replaced with one who enforced the religious law more faithfully.
And my point is that all this also described mediaeval catholicism. Of course, the Pope couldn't automatically replace any old emperor who failed to uphold the moral law - but he could exert considerable pressure both from within (the clergy could turn the populace against their ruler) and from without (the Pope could pressure other nations to invade to ensure regime change - he could excommunicate (making someone the enemy of all christendom) and even declare crusade). Hence rulers generally felt obliged to enforce divine law, either directly or by handing people to the sacred authorities where appropriate.
[Under the Summa, secular laws that violate the divine law are considered 'perversions of law' with no legal effect; further, any ruler who acts contrary to the divine law is a tyrant and must be removed from power.]

[and of course, huge chunks of the law were dealt with directly by the church. Matrimonial law, for example, was entirely the province of the church - hence adultery, bigamy, consanguinity, and the vital subject of illegitimacy were ecclesiastical matters. Similarly, inheritence law involving testiments was ecclesiastical, as was all contract law - contracts were sealed by religious oaths, which meant that contract-breaking, like perjury, was a religious crime. In addition, any secular crimes involving an element of sin could be tried by the church in addition to, or for some crimes instead of, by the secular authorities.]
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 08:36

Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 16 Jul 2018, 03:13

Question: does the World of Fuhe also have one or more kabbalistic conlangs -- all the relationship among letters, numbers and meaning that Hebrew is purported to have? I've wanted to do something like that in one of my conlangs for a long time (or is that my Jewishness showing?)
As "Magic- Ki-" exists in the World of Fuhe (though it is strongest in Fuhe and environs) the fallen empire of Momčalsum had "phonological Ki" that they connected to their various polytheistic cults (which all had commonalities. This is why the Fuheans preserved Classical Momčalsumai Texts, though they say that the "deities" the texts talk about are "natural forces created by the Creator, promoted to creator by the Momčalsum", so their is some truth to the symbolism, but all polytheistic actions are either deleted, or have a note in Fuheko: "This contains False gods. Do not use it in action- but the theory is useful for the natural forces made by the Creator. The Wise will understand." In various times in Fuhean history, these sections have been limited to a select few, the rest having even more censored texts or the texts in general being restricted.Some strains of Fuhean Monotheism require "Disrespect Rituals" before and/or after reading the "polytheistic" passages.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 20:54

As for how government interacts with religion, in Fuhe, there is freedom of Religion, though most people believe in some strain of Monotheism, though the exact theology varies from region to region. The desendants of the Proto-ɣo speakers may believe in a version of the Proto-ɣo religion, which is Dualistic, but believed that both the "Good Deity" and the "Bad Deity" are composed of a Christian-like Trinity- "Father of Light, Mother of Light, Son of Light" and the corresponding "Dark" persons, though worship may resemble more that of the Hindu Trimurti. The Molčalsum's decendents may worship some of the Zlaund cults. However, to join the Kätänä-to-Kinu-Mutai, the Goverment, which is an order of knights (what would you call a government based on the Police/Military?) one must swear an oath that they "Believe in only One Creator". If they are discovered worshipping "other gods" they are court-martialed, and if found guilty, executed by forced seppuku, though if they recant, they may just be beheaded.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 08:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 22 Jul 2018, 03:36

Ànradh wrote:
Sun 08 Jul 2018, 05:02
My other option would be a war in heaven type deal, but that doesn't allow the kind of political propaganda that I have here.
A war in Heaven?

I've sometimes wondered if all these gods and goddesses and pantheons from different religions are real, and they're finding propihets to advertise themselves on Earth, trying to win over all the adherents -- much like different fast food chains going in capitalist competition with each other trying to outdo the other fast food restaurants in getting the most people to buy their ware ("McDonald's shall be #1!" "No, BURGER KING shall be #1!"
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 08:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 22 Jul 2018, 03:48

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Sun 08 Jul 2018, 16:59
I have what might be described as a "universalist" approach to religion: I believe there is some truth to be found in all religions, that there is no "one true religion", but that all religions are an attempt at accessing the Creator. Because of this, I've long been interested in the world's religions and I've tried to learn as much as I can about a wide variety of them.

This is reflected in my conworlding in that the Mantian religion takes from a number of different religions that I'm familiar with or that I've studied. It's polytheistic, but with a finite number of deities. It's both a system of worship and a political system (similar to Islam), it teaches reincarnation in a cyclic nature (similar to Hinduism) as well as mysticism, and its creation mythology is inspired by Gnosticism. So although its origins are a bit of a mishmash, it's far from haphazard, and I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about it, fine-tuning it, and writing about it.

It's not necessarily a reflection of the type of religion I would want to follow, especially as it's tinged with Mantian culture. My conworld is definitely not a utopia by any means: Mantians can be brutal and warlike and their society is very Medieval-esque; it's fairly backward from my point of view. And the religion is extremely hierarchical and political. But I've included in the religion certain elements of religious belief that I find fascinating: there are esoteric texts that monastic orders devote their lives to interpreting, there is an element of theophany (Mantian religious lore includes many stories of the deities taking human form and "testing" people in these forms), and there's an emphasis on meditation and seeking mystical communion with the deities in one's life.

And despite the patriarchal Mantian society, the religion is surprisingly gender-neutral. There are an equal number of goddesses as there are gods, and none rank above each other (though individuals or subsets of society may place emphasis on certain deities), and the creation myth tells of the gods creating three sub-deities: a male angelic being, a female angelic being, and an animal angelic being, the three of which together forged the physical world.
Is "Mantian" related to the word "mantis", by any chance?

You've clearly put a lot of thought into your conreligion. It's eclectic, but at the same time not kitchen-sink. (And it's a touch of realism making the Mantians patriarchal but their religion more gender-egalitarian -- much like the fundamentalist Christians in America who object to guys having long hair and/or facial hair, even though Jesus is usually depicted with long hair and a beard. A lot of people tell me I look like Jesus.)
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 08:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 22 Jul 2018, 04:13

eldin raigmore wrote:
Mon 16 Jul 2018, 05:22
I only spent 19 months of my late-single-digit childhood in India. I did grow up in Texas, for the most part.
So you learned to walk and talk in Texas! The most formative years of them all!
And you got it from letters your little sister drew.
You remembered!
Yep!

Hey, eldin, why don't we see you posting more sentences in Adpihi in the translation challenge threads and things like that? You clearly have one of the oldest conlangs on this board, so you've probably developed it to quite a degree by now.
Did you know any languages other than English at the time? If you didn't, that's pretty impressive! A lot of conlangers start off with ciphers of their own language (and even cipherbets to go with them).
No, if I correctly remember the timing, I started learning Spanish less than three months after that. I was probably very aware that other languages existed, because we were about to move to Nashville so my parents could learn some languages. But I didn’t know much, if anything, about those languages.
Remember, at that age, I was (if i recall correctly ) unaware that even English had a grammar. For me and my classmates, learning a language meant learning its vocabulary.
Learn languages like Spanish and Caddo?

Yes, before I took an after-school Spanish class in the fifth grade, I was unaware of how much grammar and semantics differed from language to language. I knew little bits like "In French and Spanish, the adjective comes after the noun" or "In many languages, nouns have gender, and the articles differ with gender" but I failed to realize the true extent of how much languages could differ. By the time I started working on Kankonian at age 16, I knew quite a lot about how grammar differed in languages like German, French, Spanish, Italian, Hebrew, Arabic, Japanese, Mandarin, Tagalog, Hawaiian, and Esperanto. I knew what SVO vs. SOV vs. VSO was all about, how noun cases worked, what voice and aspect were, that some languages had stative verbs instead of adiectives, that nouns could have dual number or no number at all, that verbs could conjugate for person and/or number (even gender), that verbs didn't need to be conjugated for tense.
I do have an event in mind that I would take as proof that the Creator not only existed, but has hung around tending to things since the Creation.
I don’t realistically expect it to ever occur, especially not in my lifetime (nor even the lifetime of any CBBean).
That would be, the arrival of three or four star-faring species (and their civilizations and cultures) at first-contact-readiness all at the same time.
I got the idea from an SF novel by an established author (I think a Canadian). I can’t believe I can neither remember the book’s title nor the author’s name!
Anyway, the analogy he(?) used was; if you’re cooking only one dish, after a certain point you can put it on the stove or in the oven and walk away for a while. But if you’re cooking a meal, in order for everything to be ready at the same time, you have to stay in the kitchen.

But I still wouldn’t believe in the Abrahamic God.
Interesting! I've never heard of such a novel. And yes, it wouldn't prove that any particular religion's God or god(desse)s existed, but in the same way it would mean that there was probably an intelligent force behind it all.

I believe we will make White-House-lawn-level contact with another planet's intelligent life sometime in my lifetime.
Maybe use "temple"? That's what I call the religious buildings of the Kankonian religions.
By “church” I actually meant a community of adherents or co-religionists.
However, the logical place to meet them would be their HQ, which would probably be their house-of-worship, which probably would best be called a “temple”.
Thanks for the suggestion!
You're welcome!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 08:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 22 Jul 2018, 04:34

elemtilas wrote:
Tue 17 Jul 2018, 19:12
<QUOTE author="Khemehekis" post_id="279230" time="1531708192" user_id="95"><s>
Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 16 Jul 2018, 03:29
This sounds as if your world has teleology! Teleology is something scientism today rejects (biologists are even discouraged from speaking of "lower" and "higher" life-forms), but I seem to have it in my Lehola Galaxy and its iteli, with an invisible God apparently directing evolutionary paths. (And, of course, you have a Christ figure -- God incarnated as a mortal. This is something I don't have anywhere in the Lehola Galaxy.)
Yes, I think so. There are certainly causes for things --- pouring water on earth makes mud, raping a girl results in a (spiritually) debilitated child. But what is more important about the nature of phenomena is their purpose. Without it, things only exist in the lowest possible dimension. Purpose raises them up towards a higher dimension of fulfilment. A lot of people --- well, children mostly, those wisest of creatures! --- ask "why are there mosquitoes, if all they do is bite and make you itch?" Notice that they don't care about the causes (the process of evolution among animals, the rise of insects). They care about purpose: purpose of the thing itself (it stings) and purpose of the One who came up with the whole mosquito thing (the whys and wherefores).

This could be one reason why scientism is a failed system of thought in the World. There ìs science, and evolution and biology and so forth, but natural philosophers in The World tend to think rather differently from our scientists.
Reminds me in some questions in Bart Simpson's Guide to Life: "Why did God create dung beetles?" "Why did God create tapeworms?" "Why did God create Barney the Dinosaur"?

Scientists in the Lehola Galaxy are less scientistic and atheistic than most of those on present-day Earth -- they're not what we would call Brights. They know about life -- some of the same species, even! -- on different planets, they've confirmed telepathy and clairvoyance in many species and have "the psychic sciences" (such as how to teleport), some technology that is "indistinguishable from magic", millennia of Metaxasesque thought from many different civilizations, and even a planet, Doyatl, with a sapient species whose inborn ability to time-travel is just beginning to be studied and harnessed by scientists.
This sounds like Tolkien's musings about subcreation! In a way, you conworld in a Tolkienian tradition, Elemtilas.
In a rather accidental way! It's not until the last year or two I've actually read about Tolkien and his thought process on the matter. Like, for example, it just struck me literally last week how fundamentally similar, of all peoples in either world, the Daine and Hobbits turn out to be. I was reading an article about religious matters in Tolkien and one of the bullet points had to do with Hobbits and religion. Of all the people in Middle Earth you'd expect to be (conventionally) religious are Hobbits, after all, they seem very English and rural and a load of good chaps. They're good farmers and enjoy a good beer down the pub. But we never hear about religion, and the author said something that resonated as true: Hobbits exist in Middle Earth in what could be said is an early Christian communal society.

They work as needed, they feed and look after one another, they don't experience greed or envy as a rule. They enjoy their lives together as a united community. As a people, they are pretty wholesome, graceful, just & peaceful. This same can be said of the Daine as well.
Sounds to me like the Society of Friends -- better known as Quakers!

On a board where we discuss Howe & Strauss, a Gen-X woman described Xers in middle age as "Hobbits" -- homey folk who like their hobbit-holes.
Well, this whole thread has gone over a whole better than I had thought it might!
Yeah, it might've gone on like this:

"I make my conreligion just like Blebdahism, because I'm a Blebdahist."

"No, SPORGALISM is the One True Religion. You Blebdahists are destined for hellfire!"

"No, you Sporgalists are going to Hell!"

"no u"

"no u!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!1!111"
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 08:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 22 Jul 2018, 04:45

gestaltist wrote:
Wed 18 Jul 2018, 09:42
Salmoneus wrote:
Sat 30 Jun 2018, 14:03
However, Mormonism is heavily represented in the genre - certainly out of all proportion to its prevalence! The most prominent is Orson Scott Card, who is not just Mormon but very demonstratively so. Tracy Hickman, co-author of the Dragonlance books, is another example. And L.E. Modesitt Jr is, as I understand it, not a Mormon himself, but has lived in Utah a long time and many of his books are overtly influenced by, or even about, Mormonism.
I'd say the most prominent representative of Mormonism in the fantasy genre is Brandon Sanderson.

I was raised in a super-religious catholic family and have since drifted away towards "I-don't-care-ism". I don't even know if I would label myself as atheist, agnostic or what. At one point in life, I decided religion doesn't really matter for me. I still think that my catholic upbringing has influenced my conworlding a lot. Almost all of my conworlds have some sort of spiritual plane with angelic/demonic beings, for one example. However, I later studied philosophy and I think this was even more of an influence as I used conworlding as a playground for various philosophical ideas. The World of Twin Suns is strongly influenced by Descartes, for example.
So that's where the whole World of Twin Suns came from! I remember you writing about that conworld, and had forgotten all about it until I read this post. I'll have to take a second look.

I often use planets/countries in Lehola as playgrounds for social/political systems. For instance, the planet of Ispatchi has a one-world government that runs on the principle of "maximum freedom, zero privacy".

And I think you would be called an apatheist.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » Sun 22 Jul 2018, 14:05

Khemehekis wrote:
Sun 22 Jul 2018, 03:36
Ànradh wrote:
Sun 08 Jul 2018, 05:02
My other option would be a war in heaven type deal, but that doesn't allow the kind of political propaganda that I have here.
A war in Heaven?

I've sometimes wondered if all these gods and goddesses and pantheons from different religions are real, and they're finding propihets to advertise themselves on Earth, trying to win over all the adherents -- much like different fast food chains going in capitalist competition with each other trying to outdo the other fast food restaurants in getting the most people to buy their ware ("McDonald's shall be #1!" "No, BURGER KING shall be #1!"
This is actually a thing in The World. Not so much at present, but in the dimly recollected past there were actually wars going on between factions of some aged star empire or other. Completely tangential to the history of Gea and Selanna and the other worlds in this system, but several of the planets bear scars and testimony to the doings of those "elsewhere travellers". Having nothing as hampering as a "prime directive" these space factions would, from time to time, come down to the surface, sometimes to set up a waystation other times to replensish raw materials and sometimes even to "recruit" natives for the cause. If in any of your travels through the multiverse you find some space-faring winged folk, chances are good you're seeing the descendant of some Daine long ago pressed into service of the Emperor!

On Gea their legacy survives mostly in the form of that most ephemeral of evidence known as myth. Particularly among Men, who have the propensity to turn any old thing into a god, they've made these elsewhere travellers into competing pantheons of celestial devas and asuras. Gea's position in space was quite on the periphery of an empire called Hamzeret who had long been at war with a faction they called Wendat, or "rebellious ones". That, no one in Gea knows, not even the Wise, but you've probably heard of old pantheons of gods called Ansur and Wanir.

It's unclear if these elsewhere travellers are the same factions fighting the same war, but there are recollections coming down to the present time from the lore of the ancient Atelanteans of "gods" who would appear and disappear in bright illuminated "gates". From time to time a careless traveller would drop a piece of equipment or a tool or some other article that are sometimes found by a local native. This is a record of such a long ago event.
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » Sun 22 Jul 2018, 14:53

Khemehekis wrote:
Sun 22 Jul 2018, 04:34
elemtilas wrote:
Tue 17 Jul 2018, 19:12
<QUOTE author="Khemehekis" post_id="279230" time="1531708192" user_id="95"><s>
Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 16 Jul 2018, 03:29
This sounds as if your world has teleology! Teleology is something scientism today rejects (biologists are even discouraged from speaking of "lower" and "higher" life-forms), but I seem to have it in my Lehola Galaxy and its iteli, with an invisible God apparently directing evolutionary paths. (And, of course, you have a Christ figure -- God incarnated as a mortal. This is something I don't have anywhere in the Lehola Galaxy.)
Yes, I think so. There are certainly causes for things --- pouring water on earth makes mud, raping a girl results in a (spiritually) debilitated child. But what is more important about the nature of phenomena is their purpose. Without it, things only exist in the lowest possible dimension. Purpose raises them up towards a higher dimension of fulfilment. A lot of people --- well, children mostly, those wisest of creatures! --- ask "why are there mosquitoes, if all they do is bite and make you itch?" Notice that they don't care about the causes (the process of evolution among animals, the rise of insects). They care about purpose: purpose of the thing itself (it stings) and purpose of the One who came up with the whole mosquito thing (the whys and wherefores).

This could be one reason why scientism is a failed system of thought in the World. There ìs science, and evolution and biology and so forth, but natural philosophers in The World tend to think rather differently from our scientists.
Reminds me in some questions in Bart Simpson's Guide to Life: "Why did God create dung beetles?" "Why did God create tapeworms?" "Why did God create Barney the Dinosaur"?

Scientists in the Lehola Galaxy are less scientistic and atheistic than most of those on present-day Earth -- they're not what we would call Brights. They know about life -- some of the same species, even! -- on different planets, they've confirmed telepathy and clairvoyance in many species and have "the psychic sciences" (such as how to teleport), some technology that is "indistinguishable from magic", millennia of Metaxasesque thought from many different civilizations, and even a planet, Doyatl, with a sapient species whose inborn ability to time-travel is just beginning to be studied and harnessed by scientists.
Very interesting! The intersection of differing species' perceptions and lore can be a fertile ground of advancement indeed.

Natrual philosophy in The World is much more like science was here in the primary world before the secularists took control. There is much more of an awareness of the "things Unseen" and not the fixation solely on the "things Seen". Practitioners are aware of the limitations of scientism (which they would consider a philosophical heresy, as well as a bog stupid way of going about things) and the irrationality of a purely physical, purely observable & atheistic worldview. Of course, that doesn't mean that there are no natural philosophers that try to go down that road. Thinkers in whom we might see the shades of Marx or Comte have arisen from time to time, for example.
This sounds like Tolkien's musings about subcreation! In a way, you conworld in a Tolkienian tradition, Elemtilas.
In a rather accidental way! It's not until the last year or two I've actually read about Tolkien and his thought process on the matter. Like, for example, it just struck me literally last week how fundamentally similar, of all peoples in either world, the Daine and Hobbits turn out to be. I was reading an article about religious matters in Tolkien and one of the bullet points had to do with Hobbits and religion. Of all the people in Middle Earth you'd expect to be (conventionally) religious are Hobbits, after all, they seem very English and rural and a load of good chaps. They're good farmers and enjoy a good beer down the pub. But we never hear about religion, and the author said something that resonated as true: Hobbits exist in Middle Earth in what could be said is an early Christian communal society.

They work as needed, they feed and look after one another, they don't experience greed or envy as a rule. They enjoy their lives together as a united community. As a people, they are pretty wholesome, graceful, just & peaceful. This same can be said of the Daine as well.
Sounds to me like the Society of Friends -- better known as Quakers!

On a board where we discuss Howe & Strauss, a Gen-X woman described Xers in middle age as "Hobbits" -- homey folk who like their hobbit-holes.
[:)] I actually would like living in a smial. Of course, it would have to be a damn sight taller than even Bag End to be comfortable! Much more like a Daine house!

I can see some echoes of Quakerism in the lives of Daine. Of course, having no concept of gods makes formal temple style worship and rites a bit difficult. They do make shrines of various kinds for meditation, and when people gather there it must seem a lot like a Quaker meeting. The silence I mean.

That's also very Catholic, the awed silence being in the presence of God.
Well, this whole thread has gone over a whole better than I had thought it might!
Yeah, it might've gone on like this:

"I make my conreligion just like Blebdahism, because I'm a Blebdahist."

"No, SPORGALISM is the One True Religion. You Blebdahists are destined for hellfire!"

"No, you Sporgalists are going to Hell!"

"no u"

"no u!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!1!111"
Ha! Yeah, though frankly, I wasn't expecting thát! NCNC traditions abound in invented language / culture forums for that very reason: flame wars can erupt. But I think you set up the thread in such a way as to allow for frank discussion but also to limit the likelihood of flambastery. Also, I'm sure the Mods have been on pins and needles, just waiting to shut the thread down if it ever got that far! Frankly, I think folks here, whether young or old, theistic or atheistic are simply mature enough to engage in rational discussion without devolving into a flamewar.

But really, after I made my first post, I was just expecting silence and for the thread to peter out untimely. I could wish for more introspection and focus on inner workings rather than a surface survey along the lines of "I find Shinto interesting so decided to make a constructed religion based on Shinto". At least for me, that doesn't really tell me much about the person's own religious influences! I mean, I'm interested in Buddhism and Islam and Judaism and Satanism and Shamanistic religions and Atheism and Hinduism and Zoroastrianism and Bahai and Mormonism and so on and so forth, and shades and reflections of all of these and many more can be found in The World. But that doesn't help illuminate the influence of my own beliefs and understanding.
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 00:41

What does NCNC stand for?
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
User avatar
eldin raigmore
fire
fire
Posts: 6168
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 18:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 00:54

Shemtov wrote:
Mon 23 Jul 2018, 00:41
What does NCNC stand for?
No Cross No Crown, probably.
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 01:05

Khemehekis wrote:
Sat 30 Jun 2018, 03:52

Then there's Rowling, with her Harry Potter wizarding universe. A lot of Fundamentalist Christians are vocally opposed to Harry Potter, because of the Wiccan trappings and because Rowling has admitted Dumbledore is gay. But, as a collaboration of editors at Conservapedia wrote:

(Spoilers ahead!)
Spoiler:
http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php? ... rry_Potter
Christian Theme in Harry Potter
Spoiler warning
This article contains important plot information

Despite some criticism from mainline Christians who oppose Harry Potter for allegedly endorsing witchcraft, the series includes some aspects that parallel Christianity. Harry's death and rebirth at the end of Book VII (Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows) can be seen as mirroring the rebirth of Christ. Just as the savior of humanity was reborn, so Harry Potter, as the fictional savior of the magical world, is reborn. Further, this rebirth carries a special, significant guardianship trait: as Christ died to forgive the sins of humanity, resulting in salvation for all mankind, so Harry's death grants a protective magic to himself and to his friends. It could be said that Harry Potter teaches the nobility of meaningful sacrifice.

Praise
Spoiler warning
This article contains important plot information

The Harry Potter series has earned a lot of praise for some (but not all) of the moral messages it conveys to readers. A theme thoughout the series is Hermione Granger's fight to acheive equal rights for non-wizards, house elves in particular. However, the books also snub political correctness, shown when Hermione tries to free the house elves working at Hogwarts to no avail, who are happy and content with their job. While Hermione's attempt to raise house elves to equal status with wizards is praiseworthy, her attempts to 'free' house elves at the price of their own happiness is not.

The books also encourage readers to turn away from the temptation of evil. Throughout the series Harry is shown to have powers viewed as dark and evil, including a direct link to Voldemort's mind. Despite this, however, he is never tempted to become evil himself (as Dumbledore thought he might), similar to the way in which Jesus resisted the temptation of the Devil.
There is more direct influence on HP from Christianity then those listed:
Spoiler:
In Book 7 (Deathly Hallows), Harry and Hermione visit Harry's parent's grave. They pass by Dumbledore's Mother's and Sister's graves, which share a tombstone. The Epitaph is a direct quote of Matthew 6:21. Harry's parent's epitaph is a direct quote from 1 Corinthians 15:26. The story pauses for a paragraph, as Harry and Hermione discuss the Epitaph's meaning, as it pertains to the Wizarding World, and probably reflects Rowling's own thoughts on the verse, and may be a counter to interpretations she disagrees with. Note that the book does not acknowledge the origin of the epitaphs.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 01:20

Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 16 Jul 2018, 00:07

Aspie

As a Jew with that diagnoses, I find that term to be offensive, because Dr. Asperger, may his bones be ground, worked with the Nazis. I prefer to identify with the DSM-5 diagnoses of "HFA" and if they reinstate it as its own diagnoses in DSM-6 as "Aspergers" I will ask my coreligionists to declare psychology and psychiatry "Treif", and will personally see a psychologist or take prescription psychoactive substances (I will only take Caffeine, Nicotine and Alcohol) until they come up with a new name. I feel it would be like they listed a "Mengele's Syndrome". I would suggest APD- Autismoid Personality Disorder.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 02:11

Shemtov wrote:
Mon 23 Jul 2018, 00:41
What does NCNC stand for?
Indeed, "no cross, no crown". It's a common anacronym indicating a set of written rules or unwritten customs of an online forum barring discussion of two hotter than white hot topics: politics (the crown) and religion (the cross).

Obviously, for this thread, one of those injunctions has been lifted and discussion of a usually verboten topic is encouraged.
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
gestaltist
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1697
Joined: Wed 11 Feb 2015, 11:23

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by gestaltist » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 09:24

Khemehekis wrote:
Sun 22 Jul 2018, 04:45
So that's where the whole World of Twin Suns came from! I remember you writing about that conworld, and had forgotten all about it until I read this post. I'll have to take a second look.

I often use planets/countries in Lehola as playgrounds for social/political systems. For instance, the planet of Ispatchi has a one-world government that runs on the principle of "maximum freedom, zero privacy".

And I think you would be called an apatheist.
Honestly, I also forgot all about that conworld. I haven't added anything new to it in at least two years. I like the label apatheism. I guess it describes my attitude pretty well.
Shemtov wrote:
Mon 23 Jul 2018, 01:20
Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 16 Jul 2018, 00:07
Aspie
As a Jew with that diagnoses, I find that term to be offensive, because Dr. Asperger, may his bones be ground, worked with the Nazis. I prefer to identify with the DSM-5 diagnoses of "HFA" and if they reinstate it as its own diagnoses in DSM-6 as "Aspergers" I will ask my coreligionists to declare psychology and psychiatry "Treif", and will personally see a psychologist or take prescription psychoactive substances (I will only take Caffeine, Nicotine and Alcohol) until they come up with a new name. I feel it would be like they listed a "Mengele's Syndrome". I would suggest APD- Autismoid Personality Disorder.
How is that related to the topic of this thread in any way? Out of curiosity: do you boycott the moon landing, as well? After all, NASA has been built with Nazi scientists to a large extent.
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by elemtilas » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 13:31

gestaltist wrote:
Mon 23 Jul 2018, 09:24
Shemtov wrote:
Mon 23 Jul 2018, 01:20
As a Jew with that diagnosis (Aspergers), I find that term to be offensive, because Dr. Asperger, may his bones be ground, worked with the Nazis. I prefer to identify with the DSM-5 diagnoses of "HFA" and if they reinstate it as its own diagnoses in DSM-6 as "Aspergers" I will ask my coreligionists to declare psychology and psychiatry "Treif", and will personally see a psychologist or take prescription psychoactive substances (I will only take Caffeine, Nicotine and Alcohol) until they come up with a new name. I feel it would be like they listed a "Mengele's Syndrome". I would suggest APD- Autismoid Personality Disorder.
How is that related to the topic of this thread in any way? Out of curiosity: do you boycott the moon landing, as well? After all, NASA has been built with Nazi scientists to a large extent.
You'd pretty much have to boycott the entire 20th & 21st century. There are simply too many "connections" between the Nazi regime and domestic & foreign collaborators.

None of this is related to the topic and is probably best left out of this thread!
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2700
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Shemtov » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 15:44

I'm just going to revert to the NCNC rule and say there's a specific reason in my religion that makes this situation different, and hasn't influenced my conworlds, so IMO, falls out f this thread's purview, and leave it at that.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2632
Joined: Sat 10 Nov 2012, 20:52
Location: California

Re: Conworlders' religious influences on conworlds

Post by Dormouse559 » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 21:51

To be clear, the CBB does not have a No Cross, No Crown rule as such. The relevant part of our forum policy is Rule No. 3, "Tread lightly around sensitive subjects".
Post Reply