Music in my con world, how about yours?

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
Salmoneus
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by Salmoneus » Sun 16 Sep 2018, 21:24

Salmoneus wrote:
Tue 17 Jul 2018, 20:16
I got distracted into chronicling the minutiae of the evolution of a stringed instrument...

...but then I got distracted from that into the labyrinth of tuning systems. You can see why the Pythagoreans got so mystical.
...darnit!
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sangi39
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by sangi39 » Tue 18 Sep 2018, 10:36

Salmoneus wrote:
Sun 16 Sep 2018, 21:24
Salmoneus wrote:
Tue 17 Jul 2018, 20:16
I got distracted into chronicling the minutiae of the evolution of a stringed instrument...

...but then I got distracted from that into the labyrinth of tuning systems. You can see why the Pythagoreans got so mystical.
...darnit!
This is one of the reasons I ended up subscribing to 12tone over on YouTube. A fair few videos end up going into. I don't think he's gone down into tuning systems (maybe once or twice to explain something else in better detail), but he has gone into scales, chords, and how to construct them a few times.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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fruityloops
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by fruityloops » Wed 19 Sep 2018, 13:59

all they do is rub their wings together to make music. they're bug people after all.
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elemtilas
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by elemtilas » Wed 19 Sep 2018, 18:25

fruityloops wrote:
Wed 19 Sep 2018, 13:59
all they do is rub their wings together to make music. they're bug people after all.
But unlike actual bugs, since they're people, they could also devise and play actual musical instruments. They could perhaps also sing to the accompaniment of their wing-drone.
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fruityloops
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by fruityloops » Wed 19 Sep 2018, 19:29

elemtilas wrote:
Wed 19 Sep 2018, 18:25
fruityloops wrote:
Wed 19 Sep 2018, 13:59
all they do is rub their wings together to make music. they're bug people after all.
But unlike actual bugs, since they're people, they could also devise and play actual musical instruments. They could perhaps also sing to the accompaniment of their wing-drone.

specifically, me hopaki people tend to do this but sometimes they might use instruments to enhance the song. others like cicadas, just make noises (i forgot where they make noise from)
Salmoneus
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by Salmoneus » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 12:15

sangi39 wrote:
Tue 18 Sep 2018, 10:36
Salmoneus wrote:
Sun 16 Sep 2018, 21:24
Salmoneus wrote:
Tue 17 Jul 2018, 20:16
I got distracted into chronicling the minutiae of the evolution of a stringed instrument...

...but then I got distracted from that into the labyrinth of tuning systems. You can see why the Pythagoreans got so mystical.
...darnit!
This is one of the reasons I ended up subscribing to 12tone over on YouTube. A fair few videos end up going into. I don't think he's gone down into tuning systems (maybe once or twice to explain something else in better detail), but he has gone into scales, chords, and how to construct them a few times.
Oh, I know about the basic concepts of music. But tuning is its own three-dimensional nightmare.

For those who haven't given practical thought to it:
- consonant intervals have frequencies that are small-integer ratios of one another, and therefore the necessary vibrating strings are likewise small-integer ratios in length
- but these intervals do not add up. So you can 'get to' a given note through multiple paths of ratios, and the result is not QUITE the same. Which means that rather than there being just a 'B-flat', there's actually a 'B-flat constructed from xyz' and a 'B-flat constructed from abc', and if you combine the two the result sounds horrible. The whole thing is filled with what are called "commas", little annoying differences - most prominently, you keep finding that a note is 80/81ths of what it ought to be...

- so, for example, say you start with a C-string. Then you add an F-string and a G-string. Makes sense, right? Those are the perfect fourth and the perfect fifth, the two most consonant ratios outside the octave. So how you you make a B-flat? Well, you can play another perfect fourth above the F (i.e. only use three-quarters of the F-string). Or you can play a minor third above the G (i.e. only use five-sixths of the G-string). But these don't give the same note! The former requires a string 0.555555 times the length of the C-string, and the latter requires a string 0.5625 times the length of the C-string! And yes, the former is 80/81ths of the latter. And so on. So you end up with big charts of which versions of which note are available from which versions of which string...

- and I'm working with an instrument that uses string harmonics. Without harmonics, you can just put the burden on the player to slightly adjust the notes - to remember to not QUITE play a third above G to get the 'right' sort of B-flat, and so on. But harmonics only work with exact low-integer ratios.

It's all ridiculously complicated...
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elemtilas
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by elemtilas » Thu 20 Sep 2018, 17:02

Salmoneus wrote:
Thu 20 Sep 2018, 12:15
- and I'm working with an instrument that uses string harmonics. Without harmonics, you can just put the burden on the player to slightly adjust the notes - to remember to not QUITE play a third above G to get the 'right' sort of B-flat, and so on. But harmonics only work with exact low-integer ratios.

It's all ridiculously complicated...
String harmonics. Lovely!
Last edited by elemtilas on Mon 24 Sep 2018, 01:52, edited 2 times in total.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by eldin raigmore » Sun 23 Sep 2018, 21:49

elemtilas wrote:
Thu 20 Sep 2018, 17:02
Sting harmonics. Lovely!
Don’t The Police hold copyright on most of Sting’s harmonics?
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elemtilas
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by elemtilas » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 01:51

eldin raigmore wrote:
Sun 23 Sep 2018, 21:49
elemtilas wrote:
Thu 20 Sep 2018, 17:02
Sting harmonics. Lovely!
Don’t The Police hold copyright on most of Sting’s harmonics?
Ah, my friend!

You return, as always, timely, and with that rarest elixir, the Correction Fluid of Gilead!
It shall be applied froth wiht!
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If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
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Re: Music in my con world, how about yours?

Post by lsd » Mon 24 Sep 2018, 19:56

interesting question...
although I am not a conworlder (I don't understand the relation with language), the only language fills all the niches of human activity...
this places de facto the conlanger in the impossible position of having to know everything to translate it into his language...
Here I am wondering how to use my a priori conlang, with its weak relation with time, with its lack of characters order, to transcribe music scores...
Probably with numbers...
Have you developed something for it...
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