这练习中文

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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 30 Mar 2015, 17:09

Lao Kou wrote:
GrandPiano wrote:西班牙语是我最咸的季节。
西班牙語是我最鹹的季節。
Chinese is my best language.
:wat: [o.O]
你是不是水果?水果吃睡觉的裤子吗?
你是不是水果?水果吃睡覺的褲子嗎?
What's wrong? Are you left speechless by my amazing Chinese proficiency?
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by Lao Kou » Mon 30 Mar 2015, 17:16

原來如此。
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 30 Mar 2015, 18:18

Lao Kou wrote:原來如此。
足球比赛快要开始了。
足球比賽快要開始了。
I'm having trouble translating that.
Last edited by GrandPiano on Tue 31 Mar 2015, 01:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 30 Mar 2015, 20:47

OK, on a more serious note, I found this joke and I'd like some help understanding certain parts of it. I know the English translation, but I'd like to know how certain sentences work. The joke is:

某高中学校学生名叫戴隋同。
某日,训导处某位老师向全校广播:
「高二同学,戴隋同到训导处来。」
结果十分钟后,训导处前挤满了带着大小水桶的同学,还有人在问:「要不要装水啊?」

So, my questions:
  1. The English translation given for "训导处某位老师向全校广播" is "a teacher in charge of discipline used the intercom to broadcast this message". I can tell that the latter half of the sentence means "a teacher broadcasts to the entire school", but how, exactly, does the part before that works?
  2. What does 高二同学 mean? The English translation given is "Secondary High students", but I'm not familiar with the term "Secondary High".
  3. The English translation gives "ten minutes later" for "结果十分钟后". What role does 结果 play in this sentence? How would the meaning differ if it were just "十分钟后"?
  4. What does 了 mean in 期满了? (My understanding of how 了 works in general is kind of shaky)
  5. Does "大小" tell you that the students were carying buckets of all sizes? The English translation doesn't have anything like that ("many students appeared outside the office of discipline with water buckets"), but that's what seems to make the most sense to me.
  6. What is the purpose of 还有 in "还有人在问"? Is it like "and then"?
  7. Why is 在 necessary in "还有人在问"?
Edit: Also, is the 着 in 带着 pronounced zhe or zháo? The website I got the joke from says zháo, but zhe seems to make more sense to me.
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Tue 31 Mar 2015, 21:41

Actually, never mind 第二问, I figured that one out. I still need 帮忙 with the other ones, though!
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by qwed117 » Wed 01 Apr 2015, 00:01

Secondary High is generally the term for high school in the US, and in HK (which I think is the basis of the joke).
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by lhykv » Wed 01 Apr 2015, 01:57

GrandPiano wrote:OK, on a more serious note, I found this joke and I'd like some help understanding certain parts of it. I know the English translation, but I'd like to know how certain sentences work. The joke is:

某高中学校学生名叫戴隋同。
某日,训导处某位老师向全校广播:
「高二同学,戴隋同到训导处来。」
结果十分钟后,训导处前挤满了带着大小水桶的同学,还有人在问:「要不要装水啊?」

So, my questions:
  1. The English translation given for "训导处某位老师向全校广播" is "a teacher in charge of discipline used the intercom to broadcast this message". I can tell that the latter half of the sentence means "a teacher broadcasts to the entire school", but how, exactly, does the part before that works?
  2. What does 高二同学 mean? The English translation given is "Secondary High students", but I'm not familiar with the term "Secondary High".
  3. The English translation gives "ten minutes later" for "结果十分钟后". What role does 结果 play in this sentence? How would the meaning differ if it were just "十分钟后"?
  4. What does 了 mean in 期满了? (My understanding of how 了 works in general is kind of shaky)
  5. Does "大小" tell you that the students were carying buckets of all sizes? The English translation doesn't have anything like that ("many students appeared outside the office of discipline with water buckets"), but that's what seems to make the most sense to me.
  6. What is the purpose of 还有 in "还有人在问"? Is it like "and then"?
  7. Why is 在 necessary in "还有人在问"?
Edit: Also, is the 着 in 带着 pronounced zhe or zháo? The website I got the joke from says zháo, but zhe seems to make more sense to me.
1. 訓導處(的)某位 老師 向 全校 廣播 A discipline teacher was broadcasting to the entire school.
Discipline board ('s) a [某and位 are used to show politeness] teacher to entire.school broadcast

2. 高二同學 it's only applicable to the Mainland. 高二 (literally "high" and "two") refers to the fifth year in secondary education (secondary education is divided into 初中 (Secondary 1, 2 and 3) and 高中 (Secondary 4, 5, and 6))
In HK we say 中五 (literally "middle" "five”) instead.

3. 結果(,)十分鐘后 (At last, ) After ten minutes...
You can directly skip through the word ‘結果’. It just shows you that it's nearly the end of the story.
Both including or excluding the conjunction word makes sense.

4. You mean 擠滿了? "was packed with (students carrying different sizes of buckets)"
It's kind of "passive" (passive voice) as the 訓導處 (discipline office/board) cannot "pack" students who carry different sizes of buckets. So here 了 is added to indicate a passive mood.

5. Yes. 大大小小 in Chinese also means 'of different sizes' --> various, different, numerous

6. Yes. It's a bit colloquial for this joke. You can say ‘有人 還 在問’ Someone was still asking

7. 在 is necessary because students are asking questions ("Do we need to fill in water in the buckets?")

Edit: You're right.
zhao2:
触及某物;接触〖touch; come into contact with〗。 E.g. 上不着天,下不着地
燃烧〖burn〗 E.g. 着火了! (Fire!)
灯发光[be lit up]
遇;受到〖catch; be affected by〗 E.g. 着雨; 着水; 着恼(生气;发怒); 着疑(怀疑;起疑心)
进入睡眠状态〖fall asleep〗。如:他躺下就着了;着着(睡得很熟的样子)
觉得〖feel〗 E.g. 着急 [anxious]

zhe: it's a word used to link with verb to show a continuous action: 躺著 lying; 隨著 going by/following; 帶著 bringing
qwed117 wrote:Secondary High is generally the term for high school in the US, and in HK (which I think is the basis of the joke).
Well it's not the main point of the joke.
Remember why did the discipline master broadcast to the whole school? He need to find a student called
戴隋同 /dai4 sui2 tong2/ (Dai Suitong)
and it sounds like /dai2 shui3 (pronounced as: shui2)tong3/ which means --> 帶水桶 (bring (a) water bucket)
See? [:P]
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by Lao Kou » Wed 01 Apr 2015, 02:08

lhykv wrote:3. 結果(,)十分鐘后 (At last, ) After ten minutes...
You can directly skip through the word ‘結果’. It just shows you that it's nearly the end of the story.
Both including or excluding the conjunction word makes sense.
My thought here was to translate it as "(And) so," analogously optional but adding a little more colloquial story-telling flavor.
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Wed 01 Apr 2015, 02:20

qwed117 wrote:Secondary High is generally the term for high school in the US, and in HK (which I think is the basis of the joke).
Like I said, I figured out that one (第二问 is "question #2). As someone who lives in the US, I would say that we usually just call it "high school". That's not the basis of the joke, though; the name of the student mentioned in the joke, 戴隋同 Dài Suítóng, sounds very similar to 带水桶 dài shuǐtǒng "bring buckets". So, when the teacher announces to the entire school through the intercom "Secondary High students, Dai Suitong to the office of discipline", all of the students think that he/she is saying "All Secondary High students, bring buckets to the office of discipline", so ten minutes later, students are crowding outside the office of discipline with buckets.
Edit: Ninja'd.
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Wed 01 Apr 2015, 02:36

lhykv wrote:[某and位 are used to show politeness]
You say that "某 and 位 are used to show politeness", not "某位 is used to show politeness". Does this mean that you can use either one on its own, as in "某老师" or "位老师"?
lhykv wrote:4. You mean 擠滿了? "was packed with (students carrying different sizes of buckets)"
It's kind of "passive" (passive voice) as the 訓導處 (discipline office/board) cannot "pack" students who carry different sizes of buckets. So here 了 is added to indicate a passive mood.
Yeah, I meant 挤满了; I must have accidentally typed "qi" instead of "ji". So, does the 了 passive differ at all from the 被 passive or the 把 passive?
lhykv wrote:7. 在 is necessary because students are asking questions ("Do we need to fill in water in the buckets?")
Is the Mandarin progressive aspect any different from the English progressive aspect, then, or is it just different preferences for when telling stories? In English, it would be pretty weird to say "He was asking, 'Do we need to fill the buckets with water?'"; you would normally use the simple past: "He asked, 'Do we need to fill the buckets with water?'".
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by Lao Kou » Wed 01 Apr 2015, 05:31

GrandPiano wrote:Like I said, I figured out that one (第二问 is "question #2). As someone who lives in the US, I would say that we usually just call it "high school". That's not the basis of the joke, though
It's not, but as Ihykv points out:
lhykv wrote:2. 高二同學 it's only applicable to the Mainland. 高二 (literally "high" and "two") refers to the fifth year in secondary education (secondary education is divided into 初中 (Secondary 1, 2 and 3) and 高中 (Secondary 4, 5, and 6))
So that's
中,年級
in other words: (senior) high school, second grade
in other, American words: sophomores
GrandPiano wrote: So, when the teacher announces to the entire school through the intercom "Secondary High students, Dai Suitong to the office of discipline"
I would translate that as: "Sophomores*, Dai Suitong to the (discipline) office."

*"second-year students", if you must
GrandPiano wrote:You say that "某 and 位 are used to show politeness", not "某位 is used to show politeness". Does this mean that you can use either one on its own, as in "某老师" or "位老师"?
I'm going to say no. I'm not a native speaker. "某老师" might be available in elevated, literary registers. I don't think "位老师" is available at all in Mandarin. 某 usually translates as "a certain" and it's used here because it's a joke and no specific school, day, or teacher is in mind. The 位 is deferential, 'cause it's a teacher.

"Okay, so there's this high school that has a student named Dai Suitong. One day, this teacher in the 'Principal's Office' announces on the intercom..."
Yeah, I meant 挤满了; I must have accidentally typed "qi" instead of "ji". So, does the 了 passive differ at all from the 被 passive or the 把 passive?
I wouldn't analyse it as passive. I would say the 了 is there because of the nature of 滿. So you could look at it as A) a change of state: The area in front of the principal's office was empty and now it's full. Or B) as completion: the area is not (in the process of) filling, it has filled/it is full. Or both. [:)]
lhykv wrote:7. 在 is necessary because students are asking questions ("Do we need to fill in water in the buckets?")
Is the Mandarin progressive aspect any different from the English progressive aspect, then, or is it just different preferences for when telling stories? In English, it would be pretty weird to say "He was asking, 'Do we need to fill the buckets with water?'"; you would normally use the simple past: "He asked, 'Do we need to fill the buckets with water?'".
As Ihykv points out, it's the students doing the asking:

"So ten minutes later, students who had brought water buckets big and small were crowded out in front of the principal's office, with some (students) asking, 'So, do we have to fill these with water?'"
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Wed 01 Apr 2015, 17:11

OK, I think I more or less understand now. Thank you!
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by clawgrip » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 01:47

我说

Check it out, I'm participating.
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by Lao Kou » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 01:49

熱烈歡迎!

And there was great rejoicing.
Spoiler:
(Though you may want 我說話 if you're going for "I'm speaking". 我說, like "I'm saying.", kind of leaves us hanging. [xP] )
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by clawgrip » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 01:50

Once GrandPiano teaches me something I'll try using it.
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 03:10

Be patient, I'm getting there. [:P]
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 04:15

OK, I have another question about the joke. This one is probably more about the culture than the language. When we tell a joke in English, we usually stop at the punchline. Once you get to "students carrying buckets crowded out in front of the office of discipline", there's no point in continuing the joke, because you've already finished the funny part. So why does the joke go on past that to say "students were asking, 'Do we have to fill them with water?'"? Is it a cultural difference in the way jokes are told?
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by lhykv » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 15:12

見仁見智吧。
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by GrandPiano » Fri 10 Apr 2015, 00:26

“这练习中文”的“这”是什么意思?
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Re: 这练习中文

Post by Lao Kou » Fri 10 Apr 2015, 02:23

GrandPiano wrote:“这练习中文”的“这”是什么意思?
我估計:
Lao Kou wrote:
GrandPiano wrote:Can you do the same thing and have 那 mean "there" and 这 mean "here"?
Yes.
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