Caddo sketch and Q/A

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 18 May 2014, 07:38

Also, there's OpenOffice, which, I believe has an Excel-like program that works across operating systems and, of course, is free. It's a good alternative if you prefer an actual install of something versus a web-based editor like Google Docs uses.
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roninbodhisattva
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by roninbodhisattva » Sun 18 May 2014, 08:06

Image

That was fun! Didn't take me but like...10 minutes really. Also, while I'm at it, how does the Dative marking work?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sun 18 May 2014, 10:40

roninbodhisattva wrote:Image

That was fun! Didn't take me but like...10 minutes really. Also, while I'm at it, how does the Dative marking work?
Wow! Beautiful! It looks almost identical to the table in the book! Thank you!

To answer your question, I'm going to copy an excerpt from the book.

The Caddo verb is a complex structure. It's template consists of twenty-six positions associated with a number of overarching categorical distinctions: person, case, reality, tense, aspect, mood, subordination, negation, number, animacy, distribution, voice, posture, manner of motion, location, and semantic patient type. We have seen that the various combinations of these categories into single polysynthetic structures constitute words that typically have the scope of sentences.
While much can be said in summary of such a rich morphological system, I would like to conclude the analysis of the Caddo verb with two principal observations, both involving the specification of core participants. First, the Caddo verb overtly marks animate participants, and especially human participants, as much as possible. This is reflected most clearly in the pronominal prefix system, where first and second persons have equal priority of occurrence over Defocusing person, which in turn has priority of occurrence over the third person. Recall from chapter 2 that the first, second, and Defocusing persons must be human (or anthropomorphized animals), while the third person can be human, nonhuman animate, or inanimate. The third person is never overtly marked in the pronominal prefix system unless that third person is a grammatical DATIVE. DATIVE case encompasses the semantic roles of beneficiary, goal/recipient, and possessor, and thus typically references humans.
In addition to the pronominal prefixes, there are two patientive class elements, haya- 'animate patient' and hačah- 'human patient', that designate animates. As mentioned in chapter 6, these two morphemes are exceptional in that all other patientives are semantically restricted to inanimates. Like all patientive class members, these animate forms provide information about the most immediately involved participant, or absolutive argument. This leads to a second observation: the pervasive specification of absolutives.
Obviously, the most immediately involved participant in an event or state is of particular importance. In accusative grammatical systems, the most immediately involved argument is marked as the subject of intransitive clauses and the object of transitive clauses. Thus, the absolutive referent is marked differently in accordance with the verbs' valency, and some other factor is responsible for formally aligning intransitive and transitive subjects. In ergative grammatical systems, the most immediately involved argument is marked the same in intransitive and transitive clauses. Thus, it is the feature of "most immediately involved" that is grammaticized in ergative systems.
In Caddo, ergative patterning is not grammaticized; instead, Caddo grammatical case follows an AGENT-PATIENT pattern, where semantic roles are grammaticized. In an AGENT-PATIENT system, the most immediately involved participant can be marked as an AGENT, PATIENT, or DATIVE, as demonstrated in chapter 4. But although absolutives are not directly marked in the Caddo verb, several derivational categories provide information about absolutive entities. These include the absolutive number, distributive, postural, manner, locative, and patientive categories. Absolutive number specifies the number of the most immediately involved entity in an event or state and is lexically restricted. The distributive prefixes indicate that an absolutive entity is spread out, often implying plurality. The postural class includes elements that specify the posture of the absolutive entity. Manner prefixes indicate the manner in which an absolutive referent is moving. Locatives specify the location or position of an absolutive entity, or the direction in which an absolutive entity is traveling. Finally, the patientive elements specify the kind to which the absolutive entity belongs.
Thus, even though the third person is not always overtly marked in the Caddo verb, we have seen that Caddo has several derivational devices for disambiguating the absolutive referent in an event or state, which can be a third person. These devices, along with the pronominal prefix system, assist speech act participants in identifying all the core entities in a verbal situation, including third persons, and contribute to making the Caddo verb a self-contained proposition.


(p.191 ~ 192, "Caddo Verb Morphology")
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Thu 22 May 2014, 07:59

Sorry for the delay. I'm writing something about the Caddo TAM system. It's gonna be a huge post with lots of examples, so please bear with me....
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by DesEsseintes » Mon 26 May 2014, 09:34

I'm really really looking forward to more of this! [:D]
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 02:40

Tense, Aspect, Mood, and some related concepts in Caddo

After spending many hours writing lots and lots of info on TAM morphemes in Caddo, I unfortunately made a stupid mistake, and lost everything I wrote. So I'm going to keep it simple and manageable, and write about one subject at a time. The first will be Tense.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Thu 05 Jun 2014, 04:22

Following is the full list of all the TAM Proclitics that occur at the left edge of the verb. There are some more TAM morphemes in different positions within the verb (about 15 additional morphemes), but the Proclitic position carries most of them by a significant proportion. I think some of you may find it interesting to try and analyze these morphemes. Can anyone find any deeper levels of fusion between or within them?

Position 15 Proclitics

Morphemes in blue are Irrealis

cʼi# - imperative
cʼik/cʼit/cʼi# - contrastive
cʼik/cʼit/cʼi# - veritive
cʼik/cʼit# - prioritive
cʼis# - prioritive
cʼít# - past prioritive
dayt# - past locative indicative
dák# - locative indicative
dákak# - locative indicative subordinator
dikat# - WHAT interrogative
dikay/dikáy# - indiscriminative subordinator
dikikít# - WHATEVER indiscriminative
dikít/díkít# - past WHAT interrogative
dús# - negative conditional
dúy/dú# - negative simulative
hácʼik# - prioritive indicative
háhʔuk/háʔukík/háʔuk# - continuative indicative
hák# - indicative
hákak# - indicative subordinator
hikat# - WHATEVER interrogative
hí# - hortative
hí# - particular conditional
híkít/hikít/hikit# - past WHATEVER interrogative
hís# - past
hít# - past
húk# - durative subordinator
húk# - habitual
hús# - mirative
kacʼikán/kacʼín# - prioritive quotative
kacʼikín/kicʼín# - past prioritive quotative
kak# - subordinator
kakúcʼit/kacʼik# - prioritive subordinator
kakút# - negative subordinator
kas# - obligative
kaš# - prohibitive
kay/kán# - indiscriminative
kayt# - future resultative
kaʔukík/kahʔuk# - continuative subordinator
kán# - quotative
káyn# - resultative
kík# - past subordinator
kín# - past quotative
kínút# - negative past quotative
kuʔí/kúʔí/kúyʔi/kúyʔí# - negative past
kú# - negative
kú# - ONLY
kúcʼi# - negative prioritive
kúk/kú# - locative subordinator
kúkáy/kúkay# - negative indiscriminative
kúsíkak# - simulative subordinator
kúy# - negative
kúyk# - past locative subordinator
kúykáy# - indiscriminative locative subordinator
kúyt# - WHERE interrogative
kúyʔít/kuʔít# - past WHERE interrogative
kúyʔní/kúʔní# - negative continuative
kúʔníkáy# - negative continuative indiscriminative
nacʼit# - prioritive temporal subordinator
nadús# - negative generic conditional
nadúʔus# - negative continuative generic conditional
nak# - instrumental subordinator
nakúk/nakút# - negative instrumental subordinator
nas# - generic conditional
nat# - temporal subordinator
nawi# - indiscriminative conditional
nayt# - general participle
náyt# - past translocative
nikít# - negative past desiderative
niʔikáy# - indiscriminative subordinator
niʔít# - WHICH ONE interrogative
ník# - past temporal subordinator
níkáy/nikáy# - indiscriminative subordinator
níkík# - past subordinator
nít# - past general participle
níʔí# - indiscriminative subordinator
nus/ʔus# - negative continuative
núdík# - past subordinator
sidat# - simulative
sik# - belief
sikak# - simulative subordinator
siʔík# - past belief
síkáy# - indiscriminative WH- interrogative
síkík# - past simulative
síkúyt# - WELL negative
sít/sit/sí# - WH- interrogative
síʔít/siʔít# - past WH- interrogative
ták# - possibility
ták/nák/nak# - translocative indicative
tákak# - translocative
tít# - EACH TIME
tú# - NOW imperative
túk# - potential
tʼakámma# - indiscriminative interrogative
tʼakán/tʼukán/tʼukáy# - indiscriminative interrogative
tʼaʔuník# - negative continuative
tʼámmak# - interrogative
tʼán# - partial negative
tʼín# - past partial negative
tʼuwí# - indiscriminative WHO interrogative
tʼú# - partial negative interrogative
tʼúykáy# - indiscriminative interrogative
wás# - infrequentive
wát# - simulative
wíkáy# - indiscriminative relativizer
wít# - WHO interrogative
wíʔít# - past WHO interrogative
yút# - prohibitive hortative
ʔudík/ʔút# - continuative
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by Trebor » Thu 09 Jun 2016, 21:19

Two years later...

Thanks for this fascinating thread. Any chance you could provide further information about TAM and such in Caddo?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Mon 26 Sep 2016, 22:38

Sorry for being away for so long!

I lost my copy of Caddo Verb Morphology since my last post here so I almost gave up on this thread, but luckily for me, I was able to track down an old pdf version of the book. I'll begin posting again very soon.

Btw, would anyone be interested in a secondary thread like this one about Pawnee? I have some resources on it, and it's one of the only caddoan languages to have a professional quality dictionary with loads of juicy etymologies breaking down individual morphemes. One of my favorite books.

Please let me know if you guys would be interested. [:)]
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Wed 28 Sep 2016, 13:29

TAM in Caddo

There is a lot to get through in this subject, so I think I'm gonna spread it out over at least a few posts.

There are around 200 TAM morphemes in Caddo, the vast majority of which are found in the first prefix position (see above), and apart from five of these which function derivationally, the majority are inflectional in nature.

There are 12 Aspectual distinctions, 13 Moods and some other issues relating to TAM, such as negation, subordination, and some other adverbial / directional notions.

The Twelve Aspectual Distinctions

Perfect
Imperfective
Inchoative
Intentive
Andative
Habitual
Iterative
Durative
Continuative
Prioritive
Resultative
Diminutive


I will give a detailed synopsis of the meaning and usage of each of these with some example sentences in the next few posts. This will be followed by a detailed description of the 13 moods, which are:

The Thirteen Mood Distinctions

Indicative
Interrogative
Imperative
Conditional
Contrastive
Veritive
Simulative
Mirative
Desiderative
Possibility
Potential
Belief
Quotative


Finally, I'll post on the other subjects, such as negation, subordination, adverbials, deictics, indiscriminatives, and WH- questions
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by DesEsseintes » Wed 28 Sep 2016, 13:36

Looking forward to this! [<3]

And yes: Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee.....!
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Wed 28 Sep 2016, 14:03

DesEsseintes wrote:Looking forward to this! [<3]

And yes: Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee, Pawnee.....!
[:D] [:D] [:D]

My pleasure! I'll get right on it asap!
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Wed 28 Sep 2016, 18:05

Aspect in Caddo: Part One

Most of the TAM morphemes tend to be fusional or “portmanteau-ish”, indicating a combination of TAM, as well as other notions together within a given morpheme. I will try to show their various uses and any co-occurrence restrictions as I go along. Also, I should note that sometimes the TAM morphemes have different meanings in contexts different from those shown, but the most basic meaning is the one I will focus on in these notes.

Perfective Aspect

Perfective aspect in Caddo is unmarked and may be defined as “lacking any form of explicit marking for any of the imperfective aspectual notions”. This usually implies that the event is completed or seen as "a whole unit”, but it may not be so. There is a subtle difference between the definition given above and the implication that follows.

Perfective aspect, being a lack of any overt marking for TAM, may not necessarily exclude the potential existence of internal structure within the verb. It simply doesn't mention anything about it.

Perfect Aspect
Edit: I am writing these posts in steps. Sorry for the delay, but it's not so easy writing Caddo examples. When this message disappears, you'll know this post is complete. [;)]
Perfect aspect in Caddo is similar to perfect tense in English, showing the continuing relevance of a former event in a latter time-frame, often the present.

There are two morphemes with notions of perfect aspect, both occuring in the -7 TA suffix position of the verb template and therefore mutually exclusive. They are -ah / -nah / -dah, the simple perfect; and -šiyah, the translocative perfect.

The simple perfect form -ah is always found after oral consonants. It's allomorph -dah is quite rare, occuring only after stems that end in -n or
-n(ih). After non-oral consonants, the application of -ah and -nah can be quite unpredictable.

Usage of the simple perfect can also have a simple past meaning, somewhat similar to the French and German examples, “er hat gegessen” and “il a mangé”, which can translate in English as both “he ate” and “he has eaten”.

ex. 1-a
bawasisíhʔnah
ba=wa=sisih -´iʔn -ah
(boil.PL) (CAUS) (PERF)
“they (have) boiled it”

ex. 1-b
hítcidawʔnah
hít# ci- da- biʔn -ah
(PAST) (1AGT) (suspended) (hit) (PERF)
“I (have) hit something hanging, suspended”

ex. 1-c
citáyyúhnah
ci- t- háy=yúh -nah
(1AGT) (APP) (tell) (PERF)
“I (have) told him”

ex. 1-d
táhbahʔwanihdah
ták# bak- ʔa=wa=n(ih) -dah
(TRANSLOC) (sound) (make.PL) (PERF)
“then they three said”


The translocative perfect -šiyah implies the event is complete, and that it occured somewhere away from the speaker, or involves motion moving away from the speaker. Take a look at examples 2-a and 2-b for illustrations of its use.

ex. 2-a
ciːwayuhšiyah
ci- (ʔi)wayuh -šiyah
(1AGT) (climb.out) (TRANSLOC.PERF)
“I (have) climbed out” (elsewhere, over there)

ex. 2-b
hahníːšiyah
hah=nín -šiyah
(stop) (TRANSLOC.PERF)
“he (has) stopped over there”


Imperfective Aspect

(writing now)

ex. 3-a
ʔasáysaʔ
ʔa=sáy -saʔ
(appear) (IMPFV)
“he'll appear”

ex. 3-b
nusbíːbáwːsaʔ
nus# ba- yi=bahw -saʔ
(NEG.CONT) (1PAT.IRR) (perceive) (IMPFV)
“(they) won't see me for a long period”

ex. 3-c
háyniwaːsusaʔ
haya- ni- wa- ʔasuh -saʔ
(animate.patient) (PORT) (PL) (come) (IMPFV)
“I bet they are following” (eg. children in the distance)

ex. 3-d
kút'áybáwsaʔ
kú# t'a- yi=bahw -saʔ
(NEG) (1AGT.IRR) (perceive) (IMPFV)
“I'm not going to see him before I come”


.....more to come.....
Last edited by ZedSed on Thu 29 Sep 2016, 13:23, edited 7 times in total.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Thu 29 Sep 2016, 05:29

For anyone curious about actually learning some Caddo phrases, you can check out this link. The database is downloadable. The pronunciation system used is not professional, but it's functional. As far as lexical resources go, it's the most comprehensive I could find. Enjoy!

https://opendata.socrata.com/w/kerq-ib5 ... #downloads

If this link expires in the future, pm me and I will (hopefully) still have a copy of it to share.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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