Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by clawgrip » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 06:20

Especially because anyone who speaks Ainu is probably already on board with preserving the language or whatever you're talking about, while anyone who does not speak Ainu has no idea what you're trying to say. The common language on this board is English, so please use it if you want productive replies.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by Ahzoh » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 07:54

clawgrip wrote:Especially because anyone who speaks Ainu is probably already on board with preserving the language or whatever you're talking about, while anyone who does not speak Ainu has no idea what you're trying to say. The common language on this board is English, so please use it if you want productive replies.
I don't think they know English.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 20 Mar 2017, 21:25

Ahzoh wrote:
clawgrip wrote:Especially because anyone who speaks Ainu is probably already on board with preserving the language or whatever you're talking about, while anyone who does not speak Ainu has no idea what you're trying to say. The common language on this board is English, so please use it if you want productive replies.
I don't think they know English.
Considering that their posts in the thread they created contain portions of comprehensible English sentences that make sense in the context and in one case appear to be replying to a previous post that was entirely in English ("You write in English about using Ainu, ..."), I think they do know English and are choosing not to use it for most of what they write.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by Epaqasnwqar » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 01:45

Translated for epaqasnwqar : by Jinpo, ' If you complain about my Ainu fair enough but why do you use English if you claim to be learning Ainu you are like the same who claim to be spreading democracy but instead oppress and make war and spreading English language imperialism you will never learn if you do not practice what you preach , writing about saving this and that language in English language are the same people destroyed other culture ,hypocrites ,come to Japan and try to learn Japanese and Ainu, English is not a language , it is a mix of vocabularies ,remember Scottish , welsh, Irish and many nations were destroyed by English and their fake laws , you were probably spoon fed English propaganda , we do not need your help go back to you little England and your buddies you can ban me from this page , it seems I made a big mistake , tired people bullshiters :mrred:
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by Ahzoh » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 03:12

Epaqasnwqar wrote:Translated for epaqasnwqar : by Jinpo, ' If you complain about my Ainu fair enough but why do you use English if you claim to be learning Ainu you are like the same who claim to be spreading democracy but instead oppress and make war and spreading English language imperialism you will never learn if you do not practice what you preach , writing about saving this and that language in English language are the same people destroyed other culture ,hypocrites ,come to Japan and try to learn Japanese and Ainu, English is not a language , it is a mix of vocabularies ,remember Scottish , welsh, Irish and many nations were destroyed by English and their fake laws , you were probably spoon fed English propaganda , we do not need your help go back to you little England and your buddies you can ban me from this page , it seems I made a big mistake , tired people bullshiters :mrred:
You do not understand how learning other languages work. Why do we use English? Because we don't know Ainu! We must learn Ainu using a language that we know, which is English. It would be the same if you knew only Japanese and wanted to learn Ainu. In order to learn another language, it is effective to learn it using a language one's knows. Immersion isn't available to everyone.

English is very much a language and although it has borrowed many works you can see how distinct it is if you looked at Old English. As well, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish languages are very much alive.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by GrandPiano » Sat 01 Apr 2017, 21:46

Some of your points were addressed in my post in the other thread, but anyway:
Epaqasnwqar wrote:If you complain about my Ainu fair enough but why do you use English if you claim to be learning Ainu
Most of us never claimed to be learning Ainu, and even if we were, not all of us might be proficient enough to discuss the Ainu revitalization effort in Ainu. As has been pointed out by others, anyone who can speak Ainu is probably already in favor of its revitalization, and doesn't need to be convinced. In any case, like I said elsewhere, there are many, many languages in a similar situation to Ainu, and most people on this board would probably like to support all of them if we could; however, for obvious reasons, it would be very impractical to learn every endangered language, no matter how much one supports their revitalizations. Even if one were only interesting in revitalizing Ainu, they might not have the time and/or resources to learn it.
Epaqasnwqar wrote:come to Japan and try to learn Japanese and Ainu
Not everyone has the time and/or money to travel to Japan and stay there long enough to learn both Japanese and Ainu and help with the revitalization effort.
Epaqasnwqar wrote:English is not a language , it is a mix of vocabularies
In that case, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese are hardly languages either; they're just mixtures of their respective ancestral languages and Chinese. Same for French and Spanish, which are just mixes of inhereted Latin vocabulary, borrowed Latin vocabulary, and various regional languages.
Epaqasnwqar wrote:remember Scottish , welsh, Irish and many nations were destroyed by English and their fake laws
The English language didn't do that, people who happened to speak English did that. Many modern-day English speakers, including most of us, are very much against the sort of imperialism that brought languages like Welsh and Irish to their current state. That doesn't mean we're opposed to the English language, it means that we're opposed to forced cultural assimilation and language endangerment. I'm kind of surprised that you're saying this right after suggesting we go to Japan and learn Japanese and Ainu, when Japanese is the primary language that's replacing Ainu.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by Iyionaku » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 08:42

You guys are amazingly calm and reasoning. Maybe it's a matter of age, but if I was called a "tired people bullshiter" I had already stopped arguing with that person.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by sangi39 » Sun 02 Apr 2017, 23:52

Epaqasnwqar wrote:Translated for epaqasnwqar : by Jinpo, ' If you complain about my Ainu fair enough but why do you use English if you claim to be learning Ainu you are like the same who claim to be spreading democracy but instead oppress and make war and spreading English language imperialism you will never learn if you do not practice what you preach , writing about saving this and that language in English language are the same people destroyed other culture ,hypocrites ,come to Japan and try to learn Japanese and Ainu, English is not a language , it is a mix of vocabularies ,remember Scottish , welsh, Irish and many nations were destroyed by English and their fake laws , you were probably spoon fed English propaganda , we do not need your help go back to you little England and your buddies you can ban me from this page , it seems I made a big mistake , tired people bullshiters :mrred:
Okay, so as others have addressed this, I won't go into too much detail:

1) No-one is complaining per se about the your use of Ainu in this thread, however, considering the people in this thread are either still learning or interested in learning Ainu then it would make sense to provide a translation.
2) We have a person who can speak Ainu on the board? Awesome! [:D] Literally no sarcasm intended. You're someone who can provide really good information on your dialect of Ainu first-hand.
3) English most definitely is a language.

And this is where it starts to get a bit... uncool. The reason the users of this forum predominantly use English to communicate vary greatly. For some it might be their first language, others might find it easier for international communication, or whatever. I don't think putting words into people's mouths, saying they support some kind of English linguistic and cultural hegemony or imperialism, is a reasonable response to what's been said in this thread so far.

Secondly, insulting the users of this board based on those spurious and nonsensical claims isn't the best way to go about responding to those users.

I'd suggest that everyone read over the thread, take a moment to step back and look at what's actually happened here. Thankfully you've all stepped aside from the insults and dealt with this post quite pleasantly, which is always a great sight to see, but Epaqasnwqar, maybe just stop with the insults and tone it down a bit. People want to learn Ainu, but it's hard to do that without some sort of intermediary. Again, no-one's saying "don't use Ainu", they're just saying "can we have a translation so we can learn better" (this is actually one of the main reasons I like the "Language Practice Thread" [:)] )
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by Lao Kou » Mon 03 Apr 2017, 00:01

Unfortunately, I suspect you're talking to the trollish hand.
Last edited by Lao Kou on Mon 03 Apr 2017, 00:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by sangi39 » Mon 03 Apr 2017, 00:16

Lao Kou wrote:Unfortunately, I suspect you're talking to the hand.
We'll see [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
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Re: Aynu Itak - Ainu Language

Post by Lao Kou » Mon 03 Apr 2017, 00:32

sangi39 wrote:We'll see [:)]
I'm geographically in the right neck of the woods. I'd start learning Ainu in a linguistic heartbeat if I got close. But we know that 外人 are a breed apart, so you've got two levels of separation to overcome.
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