Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 02:26

Thanks for the comments. I'm glad you like the language, but as you suspected, I have no plans to release the font. I'd prefer to keep this my own language.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by avonthalonus » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 02:38

Not even commercially, as a license for personal use unmodified under your own copyright? Please don't be annoyed at my persistence; please take it as a compliment on the value of your artistry.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by avonthalonus » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 12:05

Since I already peaked at the answers to the lessons, I tried my hand at varying the exercises slightly, below:
Spoiler: show
Lesson 3

1. a seed > teen
2. animals > kaak
3. many schools > chgay-beym
4. homes (in general) > gaga-leum
5. the people on the farm (i.e. associated with the farm) > heuubngoy-beym OR heuubngoy-tom-beym to distinguish from "many farms"
6. bees (in general) > gaga-iok

Lesson 4

1. Gleh'auk is eating. > Gleh'auk kpeun bgaiy
2. Many dogs have died. > loum-beym gliañ
3. The woman is in good health. > naun panglor
4. The child is going. > peen keuong bgaiy

Lesson 5

1. You are red. > duool ket
2. We are facing you. > hwai-beym toy-bgaiy duool
3. He engraved it. > itui wgornswech itui

Question: I'm confused about using the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb in "chmeu cher bgaiy". It seems like this shouldn't be allowed as it is contradictory. Should we not rather view bgaiy here, not as an imperfect auxiliary, but as the time adverb "now" instead, and translate it as, "The mugwort has now died"?

Thank you.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by Birdlang » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 16:39

Is that conscript a syllabary?
L1: English.
L2: Spanish, Bahasa Melayu, Bahasa Indonesia, Italian, Korean, Chinese, and many more.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 17:09

avonthalonus wrote:Not even commercially, as a license for personal use unmodified under your own copyright? Please don't be annoyed at my persistence; please take it as a compliment on the value of your artistry.
Sorry, I just intend to keep this to myself at this time.
avonthalonus wrote:Since I already peaked at the answers to the lessons, I tried my hand at varying the exercises slightly, below:
Spoiler: show
Lesson 3

1. a seed > teen
2. animals > kaak
3. many schools > chgay-beym
4. homes (in general) > gaga-leum
5. the people on the farm (i.e. associated with the farm) > heuubngoy-beym OR heuubngoy-tom-beym to distinguish from "many farms"
6. bees (in general) > gaga-iok

Lesson 4

1. Gleh'auk is eating. > Gleh'auk kpeun bgaiy
2. Many dogs have died. > loum-beym gliañ
3. The woman is in good health. > naun panglor
4. The child is going. > peen keuong bgaiy

Lesson 5

1. You are red. > duool ket
2. We are facing you. > hwai-beym toy-bgaiy duool
3. He engraved it. > itui wgornswech itui

Question: I'm confused about using the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb in "chmeu cher bgaiy". It seems like this shouldn't be allowed as it is contradictory. Should we not rather view bgaiy here, not as an imperfect auxiliary, but as the time adverb "now" instead, and translate it as, "The mugwort has now died"?

Thank you.
Will check the answers when I have more time. As for the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb: "perfect" refers to the action being completed (perhaps I could call it a perfective verb class). The imperfect auxiliary indicates the result is incomplete. In this sense, you could think of cher on its own as "died" i.e. past, and cher bgaiy as "has died" i.e. perfect.
Birdlang wrote:Is that conscript a syllabary?
The script is a logography. There are over 1000 characters. This image is kind of old now, and there are more characters than this image shows, but this is the best I have for you at the moment:
Spoiler: show
Image
Should really get my next lesson done for this.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by avonthalonus » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 17:50

Will check the answers when I have more time. As for the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb: "perfect" refers to the action being completed (perhaps I could call it a perfective verb class). The imperfect auxiliary indicates the result is incomplete. In this sense, you could think of cher on its own as "died" i.e. past, and cher bgaiy as "has died" i.e. perfect.
I was confused because I'm used to the definition of perfect including both a completed action and the persistent results of that action continuing into the present, as in most Indo-European languages. By persistent results, I mean the action has not been undone in the meantime with respect to the present. The plant "has died" means that we know up until now it has not "undied". But if we say, The plant "died", we only know that it experienced dying at some point in the past, but we can't say anything about what happened since then. Perhaps it came back to life in the meantime, we don't know.

So in Himmaswa perfect means only that an action simply occurred in the past? Ordinarily, I would say that is time, not aspect, and just call it a past tense. But each language has it's own terminology. So if I am to understand correctly, the Himmaswa perfect verb is equivalent to an English simple past (died), and the Himmaswa perfect verb + imperfect auxiliary is equivalent to an English present perfect (has died)?

Thank you.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Sun 08 Feb 2015, 04:29

Yes, although I suppose sometimes the verb can refer to the action itself, especially if you are referring to future events.

I think the biggest and most obvious difference is that dynamic verbs with bgaiy result in an imperfect/continuous, while perfect(ive) verbs result in a perfect.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 08 Feb 2015, 13:56

avonthalonus wrote: please take it as a compliment on the value of your artistry.
Whew! Understatement of like 2-3 years!
Keep up the panegyrical work, Clawgrip

Image
You deftly tread the way of true Crustaceousness

[+1] :mrgreen:
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 08 Feb 2015, 15:27

...That'd make a brilliant avatar!
Image
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Tue 07 Apr 2015, 04:00

Based on some discussion elsewhere, I have decided to shift the focus to practical rather than technical lessons. My next lesson will deal with some basic practical application of the language.

Lesson 6: Nice to meet you

In this lesson you will learn to:
  • Make some simple statements about yourself
  • Ask simple questions about other people
First, let's look at a short self-introduction from a foreign visitor to the central Himma region.

ImageImageImageImageImageImage Hwai tgerngngo Chidin.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Himma yiamkeuu aajung.
ImageImageImageImage Charng Glakgar jart.
ImageImageImageImageImage Heuukeuu aajung.
ImageImageImageImage Jrat yoomaung.

My name is Chidin.
I am a subject of the Himma (Empire).
I come from Glakgar.
I am a farmer.
It's nice to meet you.

Vocabulary:
ImageImage tgerngngo - to be named
ImageImage yiamkeuu - citizen; subject; national
ImageImage aajung - to be
Image charng - from; to be from; to come from
Image jart - to come
Image Glakgar - place name
ImageImage heuukeuu - farmer
ImageImageImage jrat yoomaung - nice to meet you

Language points

What and where questions

What
The word for "what" in Himmaswa is ImageImage logayt. All interrogative words of this type appear at the end of the sentence. Logayt is special in that it does not require any corresponding interrogative particle.

ImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool tgerngngo logayt?
"What's your name?"

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt?
"What's your nationality?"

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool jaatkar aajung logayt?
"What's your job?"

Where
The word for "where" in Himmaswa is ImageImage logsar. As with logayt, this appears at the end of the sentence. However, logsar requires the use of an interrogative particle, so we will add the particle Image ayt to the end of the sentence.

ImageImageImageImageImageImage Tui chteh logsar ayt?
"Where does he live?"

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Tui gaottkar logsar ayt?
"Where does she work?"

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool jart charng logsar ayt?
"Where do you come from?"

Himmans typically only have a single name, nearly always made up of two compounded elements. When addressing or referring to children, adults may append Image haip “boy” or Image teun “girl” as appropriate. When addressing or referring to adults, the standard respectful title Image gay is appended to the person’s name. Friends and family may reduplicate one of the two elements of a person’s name.

For example, ImageImage Lummon could be variously be referred to, in childhood as ImageImageImage Lumlum-haip or ImageImageImage Monmon-haip by a close adult, in adulthood as ImageImageImage Lummon-gay in general or as ImageImage Lummon by closer acquaintances, or as ImageImage Lumlum or ImageImage Monmon at any age by friends and family.

Nationalities
Let's look at a few terms for nationalities:

ImageImageImageImage Himma yiamkeuu - citizen of the Himma Empire
ImageImageImageImage Ooksmaiy yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Oksme
ImageImageImageImage Lennaa yiamkeuu - citizen of Kingdom of Lenna
ImageImageImage Yel yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Eul
ImageImageImage Faot yiamkeuu - citizen of the Fau Kingdom
ImageImageImage Loyngsteuo yiamkeuu - citizen of the kingdom of Lhoangstea
ImageImageImageImage Gloañsar yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Inomo
ImageImageImageImage Tsuagnia yiamkeuu - citizen of the land of the Tsugna
ImageImageImageImage Naaduat yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Nandut
ImageImageImageImage Fountau-geum keuu - one from the Frintha

Just remove the ending yiamkeuu or keuu to find the place name (the -geum of Fountau may also be removed).

Exercises
Suppose you were asked the following questions. How would you answer? (use English for words not taught)
1. ImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool tgerngngo logayt?
2. ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt?
3. ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool gaottkar logsar ayt?
4. ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Duool jaatkar aajung logayt?

What are the questions to match these answers?
1. ImageImageImageImageImageImage Hwai tgerngngo Sleuodmeuon.
2. ImageImageImageImageImageImage Hwai jart charng Gluattaiy.
3. ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Hwai ombtialeeng aajung. (restaurant owner)
4. ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage Hwai gaottkar twarng Fngoyngchek-tauchday. (twarng: to be at)

Vocabulary from this lesson:

ImageImage aajung - to be
Image ayt - interrogative particle
Image charng - from; to be from; to come from
Image chteh - to live; to dwell; to reside
ImageImage gaottkar - to work
ImageImageImage gokyiamchmui - nationality; allegiance
ImageImage heuukeuu - farmer
ImageImageImage ombtialeeng - restaurant owner
ImageImage jaatkar - job; work
Image jart - to come
ImageImageImage jrat yoomaung - nice to meet you
ImageImage logayt - what
ImageImage logsar - where
ImageImage tgerngngo - to be named
Image twarng - to be at
ImageImage yiamkeuu - citizen; subject; national

Additional grammar notes
You may have noticed that word order is typically SVO, but in every copular sentence so far, the order has been SOV. Typically, in copular sentences, when the complement is short (i.e. has no relative clauses, sometimes including adjectival verbs), word order is normally switched to SOV.

You may have some confusion regarding jart "come" and charng "come from" and how they are used together in the example sentences. Charng is actually a prepositional verb, which I will explain later on.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 22 Apr 2015, 21:49

Lesson 6:
Spoiler: show
Exercises
Suppose you were asked the following questions. How would you answer? (use English for words not taught)
1. Duool tgerngngo logayt? (What is your name?) Hwai tgerngngo Cheemuoobatar. (My name is shimobaatar.)
2. Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt? (What is your nationality?) Hwai gokyiamchmui "American" aajung. (My nationality is American.)
3. Duool gaottkar logsar ayt? (Where do you work?) Hwai gaottkar twarng "business". (I work at a business.)
4. Duool jaatkar aajung logayt? (What is your job?) Hwai jaatkar "employee" aajung. (My job is being an employee.)

What are the questions to match these answers?
1. Hwai tgerngngo Sleuodmeuon. (My name is Sleuodmeuon.) Duool tgerngngo logayt? (What is your name?)
2. Hwai jart charng Gluattaiy. (I come from Gluattaiy.) Duool jart charng logsar ayt? (Where do you come from?)
3. Hwai ombtialeeng aajung. (restaurant owner) (I am a restaurant owner.) Duool jaatkar aajung logayt? (What is your job?)
4. Hwai gaottkar twarng Fngoyngchek-tauchday. (twarng: to be at) (I work at Fngoyngchek-tauchday.) Duool gaottkar logsar ayt? (Where do you work?)
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Thu 23 Apr 2015, 12:16

Thanks for your interest.
shimobaatar wrote:Lesson 6:
Spoiler: show
Exercises
Suppose you were asked the following questions. How would you answer? (use English for words not taught)
1. Duool tgerngngo logayt? (What is your name?) Hwai tgerngngo Cheemuoobatar. (My name is shimobaatar.)
2. Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt? (What is your nationality?) Hwai gokyiamchmui aajung "American". (My nationality is American.) I may not have explained it clearly enough, but there usually can only be a maximum of two arguments in front of the copula (the topic and the subject). In this case, you have included three, so one would have to occupy complement position after the copula. If you drop "Hwai" it also works fine.
3. Duool gaottkar logsar ayt? (Where do you work?) Hwai gaottkar twarng "business". (I work at a business.)
4. Duool jaatkar aajung logayt? (What is your job?) Hwai jaatkar "employee" aajung. (My job is being an employee.)

What are the questions to match these answers?
1. Hwai tgerngngo Sleuodmeuon. (My name is Sleuodmeuon.) Duool tgerngngo logayt? (What is your name?)
2. Hwai jart charng Gluattaiy. (I come from Gluattaiy.) Duool jart charng logsar ayt? (Where do you come from?)
3. Hwai ombtialeeng aajung. (restaurant owner) (I am a restaurant owner.) Duool jaatkar aajung logayt? (What is your job?)
4. Hwai gaottkar twarng Fngoyngchek-tauchday. (twarng: to be at) (I work at Fngoyngchek-tauchday.) Duool gaottkar logsar ayt? (Where do you work?)
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by shimobaatar » Thu 23 Apr 2015, 20:56

Heh, it's my pleasure, really. [:)]
Spoiler: show
Exercise 1:
1. Would there be a better/more official way to adapt "shimobaatar" into Himmaswa?
2. Ah, OK. I guess I assumed copular sentences were more strictly SOV than they really are.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by Squall » Fri 05 Jun 2015, 00:11

Himmaswa ideograms look better than Kanji/Hanzi characters. That is nice job.

Does Himmaswa have stroke order?
Does Himmaswa have rules to sort characters alphabetically?
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Fri 05 Jun 2015, 02:42

Squall wrote:Himmaswa ideograms look better than Kanji/Hanzi characters. That is nice job.

Does Himmaswa have stroke order?
Does Himmaswa have rules to sort characters alphabetically?
There is a general stroke order I follow when writing, but I have not definitively laid out an official stroke order for every character. But since I'm really the only one writing them, I haven't felt the need to write something so extensive.

There is, however, a definite and unambiguous way to calculate stroke count. All the stroke types that may appear in any character have been carefully categorized and named, so it is a simple matter to count them up.

Stroke count can be tricky though, because sometimes two or more strokes are joined together and written as a single stroke but the stroke count is not reduced, e.g.: Image and Image are both written as a single stroke each, but they both have an actual stroke count of two. Image has a stroke count of three but is written with one stroke, while Image has a stroke count of five, but is written with three strokes.

Radicals are arranged by stroke count, and characters belonging to a radical are arranged by stroke count, much like Chinese, but for the most part I haven't come up with an official order of the radical of the same stroke count, or characters of the same stroke count under the same radical.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 07 Jun 2015, 02:06

1.) ImageImageImageImage Leumbojao.

Hwai tgerngngo Leumbojao.

BTW: I would [<3] to see Leumbojao in Himmaswa.

2.)
Image Traya ImageImageImageImage
Traya yiamkeuu aajung.\

3.)
ImageImageKorImage Charng Kor jart.

4)
Imagewizard ImageImage Wizard aajung.

ImageImageImageImagewkerchmuidger 'Wizard' [img]ttp://www.vgfun.net/lee/langpage/scripts/himm ... cy/jia.png[/img]Image

Teaplor gor. [:D]

PS:
Wkerchmuislooay -v- wkerchmuidger: which one?
:?:
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Sun 07 Jun 2015, 15:23

Lambuzhao wrote:1.) ImageImageImageImage Leumbojao.

Hwai tgerngngo Leumbojao.

BTW: I would [<3] to see Leumbojao in Himmaswa.

2.)
Image Traya ImageImageImageImage
Traya yiamkeuu aajung.\

3.)
ImageImageKorImage Charng Kor jart.

4)
Imagewizard ImageImage Wizard aajung.

ImageImageImageImagewkerchmuidger 'Wizard' ImageImage (ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage'Wizard'ImageImageImage Wkerchmuidger ler Himmaswa ler "wizard" fkeu jia gor.)

Teaplor gor. [:D]

PS:
Wkerchmuislooay -v- wkerchmuidger: which one?
:?:
Leumbojao is ImageImageImage (Lit. "the previous house accepts"). The character Image is actually pronounced bua on its own, and bo in most compounds. It is not commonly used now on its own though, so bo is the most likely reading for it, though in this case, if we were to interpret it literally, as "the previous house accepts", it should be pronounced bua. Oh well. I also hope you are noticing the similarity between Image, Image, and Image.

ImageImageImage ploumtgenfkoung is conjuror, wizard, magician, witch (one who has arcane and probably dangerous powers)

ImageImageImage ploumgtenbjeuup is illusionist, magician, trickster, charmer (one who can do unexplained things, but is more harmless than a ploumtgenfkoung)

Image fkoung is shaman, medicine man, healer, elder (one who has insight into the spirit world and can heal, aid, or guide others with this knowledge)

ImageImage fkoungbjeuup is diviner, sage, fortune teller, oracle, soothsayer (one who has knowledge of the future via the spirit world in addition to the abilities of a fkoung)

Take your pick.

You're good at finding my mistakes. The one post where I wrote wkerchmuislooay is a mistake. The native script is correct, and uses wkerchmuidger, but in the Romanization I for some reason wrote the wrong thing.
ImageImageImage wkerchmuislooay is a verb that means clarify, explain, elucidate
ImageImageImage wkerchmuidger is a noun that means translation
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 07 Jun 2015, 16:48

clawgrip wrote:
Leumbojao is ImageImageImage (Lit. "the previous house accepts").
[tick] :mrgreen:
Heeeeeeen! The previous House does indeed accept, and is unanimous in its acceptation.



The character Image is actually pronounced bua on its own, and bo in most compounds. It is not commonly used now on its own though, so bo is the most likely reading for it, though in this case, if we were to interpret it literally, as "the previous house accepts", it should be pronounced bua. Oh well. I also hope you are noticing the similarity between Image, Image, and Image.
Not missed. Teaplor!
ImageImageImage ploumtgenfkoung is conjuror, wizard, magician, witch (one who has arcane and probably dangerous powers)
Most assuredly this is the kind of person that the character of Lambuzhao in my Tales of Kai.
Depending on his company, he's grandfatherly, doddering, or even unctuous, but inside he's smolderingly malevolent, filled to the brim with percolating, bilious hunjj of the millennia, the shadowiest of plans, and a grimoire full of dark arts to get what he wants achieved.
[}:(]
ImageImageImage ploumgtenbjeuup is illusionist, magician, trickster, charmer (one who can do unexplained things, but is more harmless than a ploumtgenfkoung)
This is more like me, the Lambuzhao you all know. [:)]

You're good at finding my mistakes. The one post where I wrote wkerchmuislooay is a mistake. The native script is correct, and uses wkerchmuidger, but in the Romanization I for some reason wrote the wrong thing.
ImageImageImage wkerchmuislooay is a verb that means clarify, explain, elucidate
ImageImageImage wkerchmuidger is a noun that means translation
If I'm any good at that, it's that you leave an interesting, very long and worthwhile trail of breadcrumbs.

Teaplor gor!!!
:mrgreen:
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by clawgrip » Fri 13 Nov 2015, 12:36

I was never really satisfied with my explanation on the perfect verb class, so I've done some thinking and will take another stab at it.

There is no overt tense marking in Himmaswa, but there is of course narrative time frame, from which one can discern the appropriate tense. This narrative time frame determines both the interpretation of the verb and the use of aspect markers.

When the continuous aspect marker bgaiy is used with a perfect verb, it forms a standard perfect, that is to say, it indicates that the action was completed before the time locus, and that the action's results/effects persist to the time locus.

When it is used bare, without any aspect marker, it takes on different meanings. First, I want to just point out that while a bare verb can indicate habitual meaning in any time frame, I am going to ignore that right aspect for the time being so that I can focus on how it is used for non-habitual situations.

In a past time frame, it marks a perfective action, that is, an action that is regarded to have occurred at a single point in time, its start and end points not being distinguished.

Future time frames are identical: perfect verbs are perfective.

The present time frame is the confusing one, and I did not quite realize it was like this when I tried to explain it before. Bare perfect verbs generally are not used at all to refer to the present. Performative verbs, that is, verbs like "promise" or "refuse" whose actions occur by the very act of saying them, can occur in the present time frame, or perhaps saying something exactly as the action occurs. Bare perfect verbs can also be used for imminent actions, but of course, this is future reference, not present. For the most part, they simply are not used for present reference.

So if we take the original sentence and run it through all of these:

ImageImage
Chmeu cher.
mugwort dry.up
Past: "The mugwort died."
Present: n/a
Future: "The mugwort will die."

ImageImageImage
Chmeu cher bgaiy.
mugwort dry.up IMPERF
Past: "The mugwort had died."
Present: "The mugwort has died."
Future: "The mugwort will have died."

I hope this clears it up.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)

Post by qwed117 » Mon 25 Apr 2016, 22:52

(Lesson 1)
Spoiler: show
pda p(ə)da
dka dəka
ñta ɲəta
jba d͡ʒ(ə)ba
gsa gəsa
wña wəɲa
yba j(ə)ba
chra t͡ʃɾa
ngja ŋəd͡ʒa
tma təma
fka fka
mla mla
nta nta
lsa lsa
I had the sudden urge to do a lesson in the TnS section.
Spoiler: show
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
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