IPA Charts

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Maximillian
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IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 15:07

I've created a document with IPA charts, including consonants, vowels and diacritics. I found it was much easier to create phonologies this way, because you have almost all possible sounds before your eyes. Also it might help to organise already existing phonologies in nice tables. I hope it'll really be helpful. ;-)

IPA Charts
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IPA – X-SAMPA Correspondence Charts
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Last edited by Maximillian on Sun 04 Dec 2011, 09:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Tanni » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 15:35

Congratulation, Maximillian, you've done nice and helpful work!
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Raydred » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 21:24

Nice! It looks tidy. Are you thinking of adding extensions to the IPA?
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 07:30

Raydred wrote:Nice! It looks tidy. Are you thinking of adding extensions to the IPA?
Do you mean this? I have added some of them, like the diacritics for unaspirated and interdental consonants; others I didn't find useful. I am thinking of adding clicks, but I have to understand them first, so I can organise it nicely; I don't like the way they're presented in the official IPA charts.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Raydred » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 15:13

Pre-aspiration, ingressive and egressive flow, denasal, labial spreading, nasal fricative, whistled, harsh and faucalized voice, and maybe others may be useful for conlanging. And what is ventricular vibration(it's in the ventricle but does anyone have an example)?
Also I replied when I was in a rush so I didn't notice the lack of clicks, ejectives and implosives. You may want to add another line for those in the first chart.
But, well this is yours and it's great. Your the one in charge.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 15:53

Raydred wrote:Pre-aspiration, ingressive and egressive flow, denasal, labial spreading, nasal fricative, whistled, harsh and faucalized voice, and maybe others may be useful for conlanging.
Some of them can be written using other diacritics (nasal fricative = [z̃]), others are not known to exist in any language and were designed to represent disordered speech; so I'm not sure they're really needed.
Raydred wrote:Also I replied when I was in a rush so I didn't notice the lack of clicks, ejectives and implosives. You may want to add another line for those in the first chart.
I added the diacritic for ejectives under "Articulation", otherwise I would have had to add too many rows, because any consonant can be ejective. Implosives go nicely in the main table, but clicks require their own chart.
Raydred wrote:But, well this is yours and it's great. Your the one in charge.
But it is meant to help others, so any criticism and remarks will be appreciated.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 19:57

I remade the whole thing, added notes and all ExtIPA symbols. But now I'm afraid it's too exhaustive. I need something in between... =\

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Re: IPA Charts

Post by jseamus » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:04

I like the more exhaustive document. It saves me from going all over the place searching for specifics. Plus, for newb conlangers, it might dispel the idea that certain features don't exist (because they don't have a way of representing them).
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:11

jseamus wrote:I like the more exhaustive document. It saves me from going all over the place searching for specifics. Plus, for newb conlangers, it might dispel the idea that certain features don't exist (because they don't have a way of representing them).
Ok, it is useful after all then. :-D

Also, would it be useful to make a correspondence table between IPA and X-SAMPA? Like this one but prettier.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by jseamus » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:14

Maximillian wrote:Also, would it be useful to make a correspondence table between IPA and X-SAMPA? Like this one but prettier.
Immensely. I was going to suggest it, but I didn't want to sound nagging, asking you to do more when you had already done a great deal.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:16

jseamus wrote:Immensely. I was going to suggest it, but I didn't want to sound nagging, asking you to do more when you had already done a great deal.
Ok then, you got it! :-)
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Raydred » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:37

Maximillian wrote:Implosives go nicely in the main table, but clicks require their own chart.
Hm... What makes them so different that clicks need their own chart while implosives don't?
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by jseamus » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:43

Clicks are usually analyzed as two points of obstruction (one represented by the click symbol and one by another IPA symbol), whereas implosives, egressives, what-have-you are their own independent symbols more often than not.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 20:43

Raydred wrote:
Maximillian wrote:Implosives go nicely in the main table, but clicks require their own chart.
Hm... What makes them so different that clicks need their own chart while implosives don't?
Because clicks are made by two articulations:
- first is labial, dental, alveolar, alveolar lateral or postalveolar (palatal)
- second is velar or uvular, can be voiceless, voiced, aspirated, nasal etc.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Raydred » Sat 04 Dec 2010, 21:44

Milya0 wrote:
Raydred wrote:
Maximillian wrote:Implosives go nicely in the main table, but clicks require their own chart.
Hm... What makes them so different that clicks need their own chart while implosives don't?
Because clicks are made by two articulations:
- first is labial, dental, alveolar, alveolar lateral or postalveolar (palatal)
- second is velar or uvular, can be voiceless, voiced, aspirated, nasal etc.
Yes but you only need to join the two symbols together as for nasal velar/uvular voiceless/voiced. For aspiration you just need the diacritic. And while we're at it, there's also velaric/uvular ejectives and voice/voiceless implosives. And maybe you can add aspiration to that.
But I guess this depends on how deep you want to go with this chart.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Sun 05 Dec 2010, 05:06

Raydred wrote:Hm... What makes them so different that clicks need their own chart while implosives don't?
Wiki wrote:Clicks are double articulated and have traditionally been described as having a forward “release” and a rear “accompaniment”, with the click letters representing the release. [...] However, recent research disputes the concept of “accompaniment”. In these approaches, the click letter represents both articulations, there is no velar-uvular distinction, and the accompanying letter represents the manner of the click: ‹ǂ, ɡǂ, ŋǂ› etc.
So, first of, I have to decide which approach to take. For that I need really to understand the subject. And I'm not into it as for now, sorry.
Raydred wrote:And while we're at it, there's also velaric/uvular ejectives and voice/voiceless implosives. And maybe you can add aspiration to that.
Any consonant can be ejective, so I'll need another table just like that for pulmonic consonants. Implosives are mostly voiced, but there's no problem in adding voiceless too. However, if I make a whole separate section for ejectives and clicks, then why not to put implosives there and call it "Non-pulmonic consonants"?
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Raydred » Sun 05 Dec 2010, 16:27

Maximillian wrote:Any consonant can be ejective, so I'll need another table just like that for pulmonic consonants. Implosives are mostly voiced, but there's no problem in adding voiceless too. However, if I make a whole separate section for ejectives and clicks, then why not to put implosives there and call it "Non-pulmonic consonants"?
I meant glottalic/velaric/uvular ejectives. I have no idea how to represent it but you can pronounce t' with those three different ways, being the standard the glottalic.
And maybe you could do a little chart for each Ejectives, Implosives and Clicks. Or do a general chart fo the three as you said: "Non-pulmonic consonants".
I prefer the latter.
I think maybe you could change the usual "non-pulmonic consonants" chart and make it more similiar to the pulmonic consonants chart with some tweaks:
-The columns would represent place of articulation
-The lines manner of articulation.
-And add a line in between when you start with a new type of airstream.


Edit:Also do you want a click chart like this one at the bottom? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_consonant I'd go for a more simple version over that one because given the pulmonic consonants symbols and the clicks ones people can create that chart on their own.
Also I just thought of adding pulmonic ingressives but that's used so rarely that it's probably be worth it.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Maximillian » Sun 05 Dec 2010, 19:36

Raydred wrote:I meant glottalic/velaric/uvular ejectives. I have no idea how to represent it but you can pronounce t' with those three different ways, being the standard the glottalic.
Hm?.. Ejectives are glottalic egressive consonants. Uvular ejective would be /qʼ/.
Raydred wrote:And maybe you could do a little chart for each Ejectives, Implosives and Clicks. Or do a general chart fo the three as you said: "Non-pulmonic consonants".
I did make a general chart for all the three, just like in the official IPA. As I said, any consonant can be realised as ejective, so just take the chart for pulmonic consonants and add "ʼ" to each symbol there. There are only 5 official symbols for implosive consonants, so there's no real need in a separate table. And as for clicks, they're still too complicated for me right now. :-(
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Raydred » Mon 06 Dec 2010, 15:03

Maximillian wrote:
Raydred wrote:I meant glottalic/velaric/uvular ejectives. I have no idea how to represent it but you can pronounce t' with those three different ways, being the standard the glottalic.
Hm?.. Ejectives are glottalic egressive consonants. Uvular ejective would be /qʼ/.
Raydred wrote:And maybe you could do a little chart for each Ejectives, Implosives and Clicks. Or do a general chart fo the three as you said: "Non-pulmonic consonants".
I did make a general chart for all the three, just like in the official IPA. As I said, any consonant can be realised as ejective, so just take the chart for pulmonic consonants and add "ʼ" to each symbol there. There are only 5 official symbols for implosive consonants, so there's no real need in a separate table. And as for clicks, they're still too complicated for me right now. :-(
What I mean is the distinction between Glottalic/Uvular/Velaric egressives.
And I meant doing a chart for non-pulmonic consonants in the same way as the pulmonic consonant chart.
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Re: IPA Charts

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » Mon 06 Dec 2010, 15:08

Raydred wrote:And I meant doing a chart for non-pulmonic consonants in the same way as the pulmonic consonant chart.
It's a good idea, but where would you include k͜ʘ? In velars? In labials? What about g͜ʘ? And q͜ʘ? And q͜ǃ?
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