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Re: Suomi

Post by Omzinesý » Sun 05 Feb 2012, 23:32

I found a problem with the verb 'to have' in Finnish, so I decided to discuss it briefly.

Having in Finnish

Finnish has no verb ’to have’.

A dictionary may give: to have = ADESSIVE + on. Then we get structures like: *Suomella on 15 sijaa. *’Finnish owns 15 cases.’ (Finnish is not a person, so it cannot own.)

Actually the construction is formed with an existential verb, instead.
X has Y. -> On/in X [there] is Y.

The existential construction is formed:
The place/owner in a local case + ‘to be’ in the SG3 form + The owned one/ the existing one

- SuomeSSA on 15 sijaa. 'There are 15 cases IN Finnish.'

- Suomessa on tuhansia järviä. 'There are thousands of lakes in Finland.'

If the owner (place) happens to be a person it takes the adessive case.
Kaikilla amerikkalaisilla on auto. 'All Americans have a car.'

If he or she really has something inside him or her, inessive is also possible.
- Minussa/lla on syöpä. ‘I have cancer.’

The infinitive of 'to have' is especially difficult, because

- Minä haluan olla auto. means ‘I want to be a car.’
- Minulla haluaa olla auto. ‘A car wants to be on me.’

With the verb haluta ‘to want’ the infinitive can be left out.
- Minä tahdon auton. ‘I want a car.’
- Tahtoisin kupin kahvia. ‘I would like [to have] a cup of coffee.’

Saada ‘to get’ can also be used.
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Re: Suomi

Post by MONOBA » Wed 08 Feb 2012, 15:06

In my opinion, the hardest parts of Finnish have been:

1. retention of vocabulary. The structure of Finnish words is so different from indo-european (initial clusters lacking makes a huge difference) that at first I couldn't remember anything of them. I always thought so many began with the letter v-.

2. Fine-tuning the endings and sound length, i.e. mastering gradation in all its subtleties and all the endings.

3. The genitive/partitive dilemma and rektio.

4. Particles and general "finnishness", that is to say how to express ideas and tell stories with the finnish thought process.

I'm say I'm mostly good with 1., 2. and 3. but 4. is still an issue. So if you have any secret wisdom on those points, jaa!
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Re: Suomi

Post by AK-92 » Wed 08 Feb 2012, 21:41

Pahoittelen off-topiikkia, mutta on pakko sanoa, että rektio on yks hassuimpia tiätämiäni sanoja, kun aina kun mie sanon rektio, nii aina sinne eteen ilmestyy mun mielessä e.XDDD Lapsellista, tiädän. Mut on se silti saatanan hauskaa.
taylorS wrote: Something about the word "child" seems to lend itself to attracting redundant pluralization.
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Re: Suomi

Post by Prinsessa » Thu 09 Feb 2012, 08:55

You misspelled päivää in your first set of examples in the main post of the thread!
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Re: Suomi

Post by Omzinesý » Sun 12 Feb 2012, 09:44

Skógvur wrote:You misspelled päivää in your first set of examples in the main post of the thread!
Kiitän, korjattu.
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Re: Suomi

Post by Omzinesý » Fri 24 Feb 2012, 19:48

This post has been hining in my computer for a long time. So, I just post it now.

I cannot give a comprehensive list of all auxiliaries in Finnish, but I will list what come to my mind.

Auxiliaries that demand the infinitive I

Ostata (osaan, osannut)
- Can, to have skills to do, (to know a language)
• Osaan puhua suomea. ‘I can speak Finnish.’
• Osaan ajaa autoa. ’I can dride a car.’ (I have a driving license.)
• (Osaan suomea. ‘I know Finnish’.)

Voida (voin, voinut)
- Can, have a possibility to do
• Voinko auttaa sinua. ‘Can I help you?’
• Voin ajaa autoa illalla. ’I can drive a car at evening.’ (I am not drunken.)

Saada (saan, saanut)
- To be allowed to
• Vain Ruotsissa saa ostaa nuuskaa. ’You are allowed to buy snuff only in Sweden.’
• Et saa kiusata pienempiä. ‘You are not allowed to tease the smaller.’
 Also means ‘to get’ and ‘to get X to do’ with the infinitive III.

Saattaa (saatan, saattanut)
- To be bossible (the verb voida ‘can’ is capable too)
• Vaihto-oppilas voi jo osata suomea. ’The exchange student may already know Finnish.’
• Saatan lähteä jo huomenna. ‘I may already leave tomorrow.’

Pitää, tätyä (-, pitänyt)(-, täytynyt)
 Demand the subject in the genitive case.
- Must, have to
• Minun täytyy/pitää mennä kotiin. ’I have to go home.’

Tarvita (-, tarvinnut)
- Need, (as negative) don’t have to
 Demand the subject in the genitive case.
• Sinun tarvitsee vain pyytää. ‘All you need to do is to ask.’
• Sinun ei tarvitse saada kaikkea. ’You don’t have to have everything.’

Ehtiä (ehdin, ehtinyt)
- (Sw. hinna), to have to do, to arrive on time
• Koska ehdit mennä kauppaan? ‘When do you have time to go to the shop?’
• Rikolliset ehtivät varastaa seitsemän barrelia öljyä enne, kuin heidät saatiin kiinni. ’The criminals stealed seven barrels oil until they got catched.’
 With a slightly different with the infinitive III too.

Aikoa (aion, aikonut)
- To be going to, to aim
• Aion oppia kaikki maailman kielet. ‘I’m aiming to learn all the languages of the world.’
• Aion syödä niin paljon kuin jaksan. ’I’m going to eat as much as I can.’

Jaksaa (jaksan, jaksanut)
- To have strength for, can eat
• Hän jaksoi tanssia koko yön. ‘He had strength for dancing the whole night.’
• En jaksa kävellä kotiin. ‘I have no strength for walking home.’
• Jaksatko kantaa laukun itse? Can you carry the bag yourself?’
• Lapset eivät jaksaneet syödä enempää. ’The children couldn’t eat more.’

Alkaa (alan, alkanut)
- Start, begin
• Aloin lukea Dostojevskin Idioottia. ‘I started reading Dostoyevsky’s The Idiot.’
• Täällä alkaa olla kylmä. ‘It’s got cold here.’
 Note ruveta +inf. III, The form alkaa tekemään (with the infinitive III) is a very common mistake that the Finns make themselves, a traditional subject of argumantation.

- To try to
• Yritän syödä terveellisesti. ’I try to eat healthily.’
• Yritän hankkia rahaa matkustaakseni Kiinaan. ’I’m trying to get money in order to travel to China.’

Olla (olen, ollut)
- To be, to have - in a negative meaning
• On liian kuuma tehdä töitä. ‘It’s too hot to work.’
• Minulla ei ole varaa ostaa uutta autoa. ’I can’t afford to buy a new car.’

The infinitive II is more an adverbial and is a government of no verb.

The infinitive III inflects in cases and the case also is a part of the case government.

Auxiliaries that demand the infinitive III illative

Mennä (menen, mennyt)
- To go
• Menen nukkumaan. ‘I’m going to sleep.’
• Menen uimaan’. ‘I’m going swimming.’

Tulla (tulen, tullut) (the main meaning ‘to come’)
- To be going to
 This is becoming a future structure.
• Tulen saapumaan huomenna. ‘I will arrive tomorrow.’ (also: Saavun huomenna.)

Ehtiä (ehdin, entinyt)
- To have time for
 As I said, there is a slight difference between the governments of the first and the third infinitive. Ehtiä tekemään means more like ‘to have time for going to do’
• He eivät ehtineet äänestämään. ‘They missed the voting.’ (So they arrived to the place but were late.)
- To begin, to start
• Rupesin lukemaan Dostojevskin Idioottia. ‘I started reading Dostoyevsky’s The Idiot.’
• Rupesi satamaan. ‘It started raining.’

Oppia – opettaa
- To learn – to teach
• Opin kirjoittamaan seitsenvuotiaana. ‘I learned to write when I was seven years old.’
• Yritän opettaa koiraani istumaan. ‘I’m trying to teach my dog to sit.’

Accusativus cum infinotivo is not very common in Finnish, and appears only with verbs of commanding and causing.

- To get X to do, to make X do
• Sainko sinut uskomaan itseäni? ‘Did I get you believe me?’

- To ask
• Pyydän sinua käymään kaupassa tullessasi. ’I ask you to go to the shop, when coming.’

- To tell
• Pomo käski sinua tulemaan kokoukseen. ’The boss told you to go to the meeting.’
 But with a complete object the infinitive I
• Pomo käski sinun tulla kokoukseen. ’The boss told you to go to the meeting.’

- To demand
• Kunniani vaatii minua pysymään laivassa. ’My honor demands me to stay on the board.’

Auxiliaries that demand the infinitive III elative (-sta)

Tulla (tulen, tullut)
- To come
• He tulivat lenkkeilemästä. ‘They came from jogging.’

Lakata (lakkaan, lakannut)
- Stop, to cease
• Haetaan lakkaa satamasta, kun lakkaa satamasta. ’Let’s get varnish from the harbour when it’s stops raining.’
• Hallituksen lakatessa nauttimasta eduskunnan luottamusta se pitää vaihtaa. Ceasing to enjoy the confidence of the parliament, the government should be changed.’

Auxiliaries that demand the infinitive III inessive (-ssa)

Olla (olen, ollut)
- To be (doing)
 So, Finnish has a way to express the progressive aspect but it is not as productive as in English.
• Kun mikro räjähti, olin huoneessani lukemassa. ’When the microwave exploded, I was reading in my room.’
• Vihollonen on varustautumassa sotaan. ‘The enemy is arming itself for a war.’
- Olla olemassa – to exist
• Ajattelen siis olen olemassa. ‘I think therefore I am.’

Verbs demanding the infinitive IV (in an appropriate case)
 As can be seen, the infinitive IV is a noun-like verb form. It cannot take a direct object but a genitive attribute that can mark either the object or subject. If a more precise expression is needed, a subordinate clause is possible.
 These verbs can be used as normal verbs, too, with the same case government.

Vihata (vihaan, vihannut) +PARTITIVE
- To hate
• Vihaan luokan edessä puhumista. ’I hate speaking in front of the class.’
• Opettaja vihaa virheitä. ‘The teacher hates mistakes.’

Rakastaa (rakastan, rakastanut) +PART
- To love
• Kaikki rakastavat paskan puhumista. ’Everybody loves speaking bullshit.’
• Nuoret sotilaat rakastavat nättejä tyttöjä. ’Young soldiers love pretty girls.’

Pitää (pidän, pitänyt) +ELAT
- Like
• Oikeastaan pidän koulun käymisestä. ‘Actually, I like going to school.’
• Pidän jäätelöstä. ’I like icecream.’

Pelätä (pelkään, pelännyt) +PART
- Be afraid of
• Pelkään yksin pimeään huoneeseen jäämistä. ’I am afraid of staying alone in a dark room.’
• Kuka pelkää noitia? ‘Who is afraid of witches?’ Roald Dahl’s ‘The Witches’

Lopettaa (lopetan, lopettanut)
- To stop, end
• Lopetan kirjoittamisen. ‘I’m stopping writing.’
• Ydinpommin pudottaminen Nagasakiin lopetti toisen maailmasodan. ’Dropping the nuclear bomb to Nagasaki ended the World War II.’
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