Communism [split]

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Tom-ʾEzru lit Yat-Vṛḵažu

Communism [split]

Post by Ahzoh » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 22:47

I swear, the only time you'll see me on the news is if I lead a communist revolution.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image ʾEšd Yatvṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
Egerius
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2382
Joined: Thu 12 Sep 2013, 20:29
Location: Not Rodentèrra
Contact:

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Egerius » Fri 13 Oct 2017, 23:57

Purchase a large, uninhabited island, declare it independent, make it a communist (e)utopia. No revolution needed.
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Tom-ʾEzru lit Yat-Vṛḵažu

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ahzoh » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 00:03

Egerius wrote:Purchase a large, uninhabited island, declare it independent, make it a communist (e)utopia. No revolution needed.
Then I'd just be abandoning all my fellow unliberated workers.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image ʾEšd Yatvṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4277
Joined: Thu 20 Nov 2014, 02:27

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by qwed117 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 00:32

Ahzoh wrote:I swear, the only time you'll see me on the news is if I lead a communist revolution.
So in a jail cell?
Last edited by qwed117 on Sat 14 Oct 2017, 00:35, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler: show
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Tom-ʾEzru lit Yat-Vṛḵažu

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ahzoh » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 00:34

qwed117 wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:I swear, the only time you'll see me on the news is if I lead a communist revolution.
So basically in a jail cell?
Oh, if I fail, I'm going to be executed.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image ʾEšd Yatvṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 02:27

Ahzoh wrote:
Egerius wrote:Purchase a large, uninhabited island, declare it independent, make it a communist (e)utopia. No revolution needed.
Then I'd just be abandoning all my fellow unliberated workers.
Welcome to Communassic Park!

Erm… I do believe that he meant purchase the island in order to invite the unliberated workers there.
If you catch the drift?

This happens to be playing on my radio while I'm reading/typing:

Lou Rawls - See you when I get there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDivXxDigwk

Soon to be retooled for the Glorious Revolution.


Philanthropic Isle-purchasing reminds me of Egyptian billionaire Naguib Sawiris' offer to buy an aight from
Greece or Italy for housing Syrian refugees, sort of pioneer-style:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/egy ... -refugees/

With next to no infrastructure at all, whatever they build up will certainly be "theirs"… oh, and Uncle Naguib's, too. [:|]
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 02:40

Ahzoh wrote:
qwed117 wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:I swear, the only time you'll see me on the news is if I lead a communist revolution.
So basically in a jail cell?
Oh, if I fail, I'm going to be executed.
Well, in an infinity of other Multiverses, you will come up with one of a plenitude of other solutions that does not require Madame Guillotine or the Microwave-Seat or some other kind of premature political seppuku.

I mean, look to Uncle Fidel, for crimony's sake.
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 03:27

Ahzoh wrote:
Egerius wrote:Purchase a large, uninhabited island, declare it independent, make it a communist (e)utopia. No revolution needed.
Then I'd just be abandoning all my fellow unliberated workers.
No worries, comrade! We're already 100% liberated!
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Tom-ʾEzru lit Yat-Vṛḵažu

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 03:44

elemtilas wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:
Egerius wrote:Purchase a large, uninhabited island, declare it independent, make it a communist (e)utopia. No revolution needed.
Then I'd just be abandoning all my fellow unliberated workers.
No worries, comrade! We're already 100% liberated!
The illusion of choice is not liberty.
http://redmt.org/2017/09/25/the-inheren ... apitalism/
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image ʾEšd Yatvṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 04:36

Ahzoh wrote:
elemtilas wrote:No worries, comrade! We're already 100% liberated!
The illusion of choice is not liberty.
http://redmt.org/2017/09/25/the-inheren ... apitalism/
I notice the words "liberated" & "liberty" & "freedom" don't even figure... There is no true liberty under this kind of system, as history has demonstrated over and over again. Mostly it's just death, violence & terror. And anything but freedom!

In any event, my liberty (and freedom) do not derive from any government or economic system: there is not a single person, group or government that can tell me "you are free" or "you are in bondage". https://www.catholicculture.org/culture ... ecnum=2922
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Tom-ʾEzru lit Yat-Vṛḵažu

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 04:47

elemtilas wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:
elemtilas wrote:No worries, comrade! We're already 100% liberated!
The illusion of choice is not liberty.
http://redmt.org/2017/09/25/the-inheren ... apitalism/
I notice the words "liberated" & "liberty" & "freedom" don't even figure... There is no true liberty under this kind of system, as history has demonstrated over and over again. Mostly it's just death, violence & terror. And anything but freedom!

In any event, my liberty (and freedom) do not derive from any government or economic system: there is not a single person, group or government that can tell me "you are free" or "you are in bondage". https://www.catholicculture.org/culture ... ecnum=2922
What system are you referring to?

And your freedom IS derived from your material reality not idealistic notions.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image ʾEšd Yatvṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 05:13

Ahzoh wrote:And your freedom IS derived from your material reality not idealistic notions.
There is no true freedom if it is dependent on material reality. Worse, Communism denies even the freedom that mere materialism can obtain.

True freedom is exercised regardless of social order, political leaning or economic system. It derives its nature and substance from outside the human world.

And tell me, what is your communistic exuberance if not an idealistic notion?
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Tom-ʾEzru lit Yat-Vṛḵažu

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 05:44

elemtilas wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:And your freedom IS derived from your material reality not idealistic notions.
There is no true freedom if it is dependent on material reality. Worse, Communism denies even the freedom that mere materialism can obtain.

True freedom is exercised regardless of social order, political leaning or economic system. It derives its nature and substance from outside the human world.

And tell me, what is your communistic exuberance if not an idealistic notion?
I don't think you understand what "material reality" here means:
https://socialistworker.org/2011/10/28/ ... aterialist
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image ʾEšd Yatvṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
Thrice Xandvii
darkness
darkness
Posts: 3589
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:13
Location: Carnassus

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 07:00

I think you may have glossed over the idea that assuming a communist system is automatically superior is just as idealistic as attempting to dream within a capitalistic one about better times and fortuitous circumstances.
Image
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Tom-ʾEzru lit Yat-Vṛḵažu

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 08:26

Well that's certainly a different kind of idealism. And he thinks I'm talking about a different kind of materialism.
A dead guy once said "thinking what is must be is the enemy of all visionary thinking".
And so, while everyone else is thinking of solving all of the problems within a capitalist framework, I'm thinking those problems can only be solved without it.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image ʾEšd Yatvṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
Thrice Xandvii
darkness
darkness
Posts: 3589
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:13
Location: Carnassus

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 09:19

Ahzoh wrote:And so, while everyone else is thinking of solving all of the problems within a capitalist framework, I'm thinking those problems can only be solved without it.
While this may well be true (I doubt I will see such a change in my lifetime), I think it is ludicrous to believe that the new system won't come with a host of brand new problems. As such, many prefer the devil they know to the devil they don't. (I know I do.)
Image
User avatar
Lao Kou
korean
korean
Posts: 5471
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:39
Location: 蘇州/苏州

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lao Kou » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 10:05

I was 20, too, once, but aargh...
Ahzoh wrote:Well that's certainly a different kind of idealism. And he thinks I'm talking about a different kind of materialism.
A dead guy once said "thinking what is must be is the enemy of all visionary thinking".
And so, while everyone else is thinking of solving all of the problems within a capitalist framework, I'm thinking those problems can only be solved without it.
It must be incredibly edifying to be so visionary, while the rest of us "everyone else" muddle through unawares.

Hmm, is it even within the realm of possibility that elemtilas (who has been in the workforce far longer than you, if you've even started yet) has a bead on how downtrodden or not he is by his capitalist masters? Or has he drunk the kool-aid of his oppressors so thoroughly and cannot see what is self-evident to anyone who shares your worldview?

Is is possible that some of us have ever read Marx and Engels?
Is it possible that some of us have ever thought about these things?
Is it possible that some of us may not reach the same conclusions as "Red Montana"?
Ahzoh wrote:(Capitalism IS bad, and) I've seen and read enough to determine this.
(I find this statement stunning.) Um, no, you haven't (if your diet is the tracts you drag back here).

You're entitled to your opinions, of course, and there may be some insights therein, but I wish it were less Norman Learish in its presentation.
Last edited by Lao Kou on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 10:18, edited 1 time in total.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
User avatar
Thrice Xandvii
darkness
darkness
Posts: 3589
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:13
Location: Carnassus

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 10:13

I was specifically avoiding mentioning the tone or condescension, My Good 彄, but that doesn't mean I didn't notice it.
Image
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7142
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 11:43

There is no true liberty under this kind of system, as history has demonstrated over and over again. Mostly it's just death, violence & terror. And anything but freedom!
I am still learning the names, faces and lives of long-lost relatives in Uzhgorod :ukr: whose existences were cut short by the Glorious Revolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUflIrTSwK8

Any student of Marxism does not deny history, but studies history with needle-sharp focus, to see the bitter truths behind class struggle.

…even the bitter truths behind the shiny, candy-like Glorious Revolutions that have come before.

The denial of a particular Neomarxist of what has actually, substantively come before in history, and specifically, the history of Communism as it has heretofore unfolded, is tantamount to Holocaust denial:

Голодомо́р, ГУЛАГ, КГБ - Great tastes that taste great together :!:
Cannot wait to put them into the ideological CRISPr to see what we get in the next Greatest of Great Experiments!!! [:(]
honestly, I can wait.

Someone to claim us
Someone to follow
Someone to shame us
Some brave Apollo


Hugs & Kisses
We [<3] you
Glorious Revolution

[:'(]

No thanks

Sorry if I may come off condescending, and don't 'defecate in exstasy' over the utter Gloriousness of it all.
[:(]
I was 20, too, once, but aargh...
:roll:
Wish I wuz 20 once again sometimes.
Going to Ursinus College.
Exploding my mind on Aristotle, Marx, DeTocqueville, Jefferson, Hegel, Hume, and other 'usual suspects.
Greek, Latin, Italian, Japanese, and smidgeons of Eald Ænglisc. Ooh la la, and the private French lessons w/ student teacher-aides!
Bygone, halcyon daze on The Greensward.
Coupled with slavish misery working in the kitchens of the family Restaurant & Catering business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-QgNlH-FDE

I'd've picked up the red 'n' gold banner of the Revolution in an instant to get out of that brass scullery.
Yet I still worked: my family believed in 'Slava trudu' and 'Arbeit macht frei' generations before the Reds and Natzys took those as their memes.
I set grumpy self-entitlement aside, and did not use Marxism/Communism as my shield to not be a part of the work-force.

Patience prevailed.
[;)]
And the Gold, it glittered…
[}:D]
User avatar
Lao Kou
korean
korean
Posts: 5471
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:39
Location: 蘇州/苏州

Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lao Kou » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 12:42

Lambuzhao wrote:
There is no true liberty under this kind of system, as history has demonstrated over and over again. Mostly it's just death, violence & terror. And anything but freedom!
I am still learning the names, faces and lives of long-lost relatives in Uzhgorod :ukr: whose existences were cut short by the Glorious Revolution.
Oh, you just don't understand.
Any student of Marxism does not deny history, but studies history with needle-sharp focus, to see the bitter truths behind class struggle.
Yes, but you just don't understand.
…even the bitter truths behind the shiny, candy-like Glorious Revolutions that have come before.
You just don't understand.
The denial of a particular Neomarxist of what has actually, substantively come before in history, and specifically, the history of Communism as it has heretofore unfolded, is tantamount to Holocaust denial:
Well, 20th century communism didn't get a fair shake -- you just don't understand.
Cannot wait to put them into the ideological CRISPr to see what we get in the next Greatest of Great Experiments!!! [:(]
honestly, I can wait.
You just don't understand.
No thanks
You just don't understand.
Sorry if I may come off condescending, and don't 'defecate in exstasy' over the utter Gloriousness of it all. [:(]
You just don't understand.
Yet I still worked: my family believed in 'Slava trudu' and 'Arbeit macht frei' generations before the Reds and Natzys took those as their memes.
They just didn't understand.
I set grumpy self-entitlement aside, and did not use Marxism/Communism as my shield to not be a part of the work-force.
You just didn't understand.
And the Gold, it glittered…
I think so, but I just don't understand.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
Post Reply