What languages do you speak?

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by DesEsseintes » Sun 01 Mar 2015, 05:33

I personally dislike the use of flags to represent languages, since the two seem to have little to do with each other. There are ~200 nation states on Earth and the number of languages runs into the thousands.

However, if you're going to use flags to represent languages, I see nothing wrong with using the flag of the territory where the language happens to be spoken. Navajo (and Arapaho or whatever) is spoken on land controlled by the United States.
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 01 Mar 2015, 06:10

I really don't like using :usa: for Native languages... So I pretty much only use it to mean American English.

While I can certainly see your point, Des, I however wonder what system you would prefer to refer to various languages in such a visually appealing manner (and concisely and uniformly) on the forums.

I like the flags because you can see what is going on in a post at a glance, especially useful in the Language Practice thread, IMO.

However, I do think flags for Cherokee and some of the other Native languages that also have a "nation" should be added if they aren't already. (I say nation in quotes since each community of natives has their own level of interconnectedness and recognition of their peoples, not to say that they aren't nations in their own right or otherwise diminish them.)
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All4Ɇn
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 01 Mar 2015, 07:07

Egerius wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:[O.O] Am I the only one who thinks referring to native languages with the flags of their historic oppressors makes no sense?
You just got a companion for this.
[+1]
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GrandPiano
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by GrandPiano » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 19:10

Going based on the countries' populations, there are many more American English than British English speakers. However, we use the flag of England to represent the English language, even though England is a part of Great Britain, the US's historic oppressor.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 19:19

One can't compare Britain's temporary control over east coast colonies predominantly populated and controlled by Europeans to the genocides of Native Americans, Siberians, Australians, and other peoples. Britain didn't "oppress" the US. Both Europeans and European-Americans oppressed Native Americans (and Africans).
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GrandPiano
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by GrandPiano » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 20:03

OK, good point…

Still, that's not the case anymore, is it?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 25 Mar 2015, 20:11

GrandPiano wrote:OK, good point…

Still, that's not the case anymore, is it?
Unfortunately, it is. There's lots of stuff out there you can read about conditions on reservations and the unequal rights Native Americans are given, and that's just for Native Americans in the US, not even mentioning Native Americans elsewhere and people of other backgrounds all over the world.
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by GrandPiano » Thu 26 Mar 2015, 02:16

Hm, OK. As someone who's not even in high school, my knowledge about these matters is very little. Still, there's not really a better flag to use.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by shimobaatar » Thu 26 Mar 2015, 04:03

GrandPiano wrote:Still, there's not really a better flag to use.
Hmm… I'd forgotten the discussion started out about flags. I agree, unless the group in question has their own flag (unlikely, but there are a few cases where this occurs).
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Xing
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by Xing » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 14:57

DesEsseintes wrote:I personally dislike the use of flags to represent languages, since the two seem to have little to do with each other. There are ~200 nation states on Earth and the number of languages runs into the thousands.
You have kind of a point there - and I think the question has been discussed before. I supposed in many cases the flag icons can serve a neat and handy way to symbolise various languages, though it must not lead is to think that there is a one-to-one correspondence between languages and countries. For Europe, with its 'national languages', the system with flags it may work reasonably well - but it's far more problematic for some other parts of the world. And in some cases, the choice of a specific flag to represent a linguistic group can be highly controversial - which flags should we use to represent, for instance, Chinese or Vietnamese?
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Lambuzhao
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 15:36

DesEsseintes wrote:I personally dislike the use of flags to represent languages, since the two seem to have little to do with each other. There are ~200 nation states on Earth and the number of languages runs into the thousands.

However, if you're going to use flags to represent languages, I see nothing wrong with using the flag of the territory where the language happens to be spoken. Navajo (and Arapaho or whatever) is spoken on land controlled by the United States.
In theory, the land where the Arapaho (and many other Tribes) live is under their own Tribal Sovereignty and Authority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_reservation


...in theory.

Some even have their own passports
http://www.uspassportnow.com/blog/wp-co ... ssport.png

http://www.nc-cherokee.com/theonefeathe ... -image.jpg

Their currency in international spheres, though, is questionable
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/94670.pdf


Most use new-fangled Tribal ID cards
https://pbolek.files.wordpress.com/2011 ... 5x4181.jpg
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DesEsseintes
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by DesEsseintes » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 16:18

Lambuzhao wrote:in theory...

That is precisely why
I wrote:Navajo (and Arapaho or whatever) is spoken on land controlled by the United States.

and not "belonging to" or similar.

[:)]

Thanks for the links!
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GrandPiano
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by GrandPiano » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 18:44

Xing wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:And in some cases, the choice of a specific flag to represent a linguistic group can be highly controversial - which flags should we use to represent, for instance, Chinese or Vietnamese?
Sorry if this is a silly question, but what's wrong with using the Chinese and Vietnamese flags to represent the Chinese and Vietnamese languages, respectively (ignoring the fact that Chinese is actually a whole family of separate languages)?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by Sumelic » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 19:31

GrandPiano wrote:
Xing wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:And in some cases, the choice of a specific flag to represent a linguistic group can be highly controversial - which flags should we use to represent, for instance, Chinese or Vietnamese?
Sorry if this is a silly question, but what's wrong with using the Chinese and Vietnamese flags to represent the Chinese and Vietnamese languages, respectively (ignoring the fact that Chinese is actually a whole family of separate languages)?
Well, both of these languages have large diaspora populations of speakers in other nations, who may or may not identify with the flags or governments of the PRC or SRV. People from the Republic of China/Taiwan also have a different flag of their own, although since they generally use Traditional rather than Simplified characters, they should generally be in a different category for localizations and such.
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GrandPiano
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by GrandPiano » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 19:52

Ah, I see.

In general, I don't really see the flag as a way of representing the language itself, just a way of showing where the language is spoken. We always have the name of the language after the flag, right? No one would ever just use the flag alone.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
Prinsessa
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by Prinsessa » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 20:14

because sensitivity due to nationalism and separatism etc blah blah

people actually do use the flags alone quite a lot but whoever is afraid to do so can absolutely just write the name without the flag at all so it's fine
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gestaltist
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by gestaltist » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 21:08

To answer the original question of this thread, I speak:

Polish - native speaker
English, German - fluent
Italian, Spanish - conversational
Russian, French, Classical Latin+Greek+Hebrew - basics
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Lambuzhao
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by Lambuzhao » Thu 02 Apr 2015, 00:09

DesEsseintes wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:in theory...

That is precisely why
I wrote:Navajo (and Arapaho or whatever) is spoken on land controlled by the United States.

and not "belonging to" or similar.

[:)]

Thanks for the links!
Indeed. No probb.

BTW, here are some links to actual Native American Nation minted coinage:

Shawnee Tribal Coinage
http://www.daggarjon.com/Coinage_United ... hawnee.php

Cherokee Nation Coinage
http://chiefacoins.com/Database/Micro-N ... on1839.htm
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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by smappy » Wed 08 Apr 2015, 00:00

Lambuzhao wrote:
BTW, here are some links to actual Native American Nation minted coinage:

Shawnee Tribal Coinage
http://www.daggarjon.com/Coinage_United ... hawnee.php

Cherokee Nation Coinage
http://chiefacoins.com/Database/Micro-N ... on1839.htm
Woah I had no idea this existed! I feel like I know nothing about my own country now.
Sumelic wrote:
GrandPiano wrote:
Xing wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:And in some cases, the choice of a specific flag to represent a linguistic group can be highly controversial - which flags should we use to represent, for instance, Chinese or Vietnamese?
Sorry if this is a silly question, but what's wrong with using the Chinese and Vietnamese flags to represent the Chinese and Vietnamese languages, respectively (ignoring the fact that Chinese is actually a whole family of separate languages)?
Well, both of these languages have large diaspora populations of speakers in other nations, who may or may not identify with the flags or governments of the PRC or SRV. People from the Republic of China/Taiwan also have a different flag of their own, although since they generally use Traditional rather than Simplified characters, they should generally be in a different category for localizations and such.
Also I don't use flags because how would I differentiate Mandarin, Cantonese, and Shanghainese with flags? [O.o] Also my family doesn't identify with either the PRC or the ROC even though they're ethnically Chinese because they fled China in 1949 for Hong Kong, and at that point were monolingual in Shanghainese. In Hong Kong they were able to pick up some Cantonese and Mandarin, and then when they came to the US in the 50's they learned English and became American citizens. So I guess I should just use the American flag for all three Chinese languages? :wat:
gestaltist wrote:To answer the original question of this thread...
I am a native speaker/writer of American English and I speak and read Mandarin pretty fluently thanks primarily to a year I spent living in Beijing. My family speaks Shanghainese, which I can understand fairly fluently and speak slightly less fluently, and I also have family in Hong Kong so I've been trying to learn Cantonese. I study some Japanese in my off-time and also I took three years of Basque in high school so that's my language situation. Oh yeah, I'm fairly 'fluent' in Durv Mendỹ but there's no one else to speak it with since it's my conlang.

There's no flag to Durv Mendỹ since in my conworld it's actually a nonstandard dialect forming part of the Durvfi language group, but with a heavy substratum of a dying language isolate. Durv Mendỹ is spoken in only like two cities and it's not officially recognized so I don't know what flag they would even identify with given that their 'country' is actually a loosely associated confederation of smaller states, which everyone in the conworld is pretty cynical about anyway.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...

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Re: What languages do you speak?

Post by qwed117 » Wed 08 Apr 2015, 00:27

Woah, what's with the bold?
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What is made of man will crumble away.
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