The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 12:47

Frislander wrote:
elemtilas wrote:I default to she about 60% of the time.

Anyway, unless someone makes it clear what they are, the rest of us out here just have to muddle through the best we can! And on-line in a text-only environment like this, it's just not possible to look for other clues such as voice or visual cues.

I know I've never made it clear one way or the other. People just assume, and I don't really have an issue with that.
Singular-they exists, so that's what I try to go for, though I do perhaps sometimes slip back into default-male mode when I'm not paying attention.
they-S exists, and I accept it as a valid usage. It accounts for some percentage, though I do try to avoid it if possible. It certainly beats the skirts off of "s/he" or like 100% of those other stupid alternatives.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lao Kou » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 14:43

elemtilas wrote:
Frislander wrote:
elemtilas wrote:Anyway, unless someone makes it clear what they are, the rest of us out here just have to muddle through the best we can!
Singular-they exists, so that's what I try to go for, though I do perhaps sometimes slip back into default-male mode when I'm not paying attention.
they-S exists, and I accept it as a valid usage. It accounts for some percentage, though I do try to avoid it if possible. It certainly beats the skirts off of "s/he" or like 100% of those other stupid alternatives.
I think we've been down this road earlier elsewhere in the forum, but... For me, they-S with indefinites like "everyone" and "someone" has never felt ungrammatical. With definites, like personal names, it, to me, feels a little weird ("s/he" is visually okay IMHO, but gets clunky when spoken). "Bob lost their book." [o.O] But I'm of a certain age. Such usage has currency here and elsewhere on the web, so I guess I should just suck it up and accept the changing usage.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Egerius » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 15:46

I don't use singular they (consciously, but I sometimes slip into it) since it wasn't part of my English Foreign Language education; thus it seems ungrammatical to me, like those bazillions of “alternative ‘pronouns’”. So I use he (as the word human is of masculine gender and I'd rather stress the human part rather than the gender), she (if gender is known) or s/he (if I'm not sure of anything).
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by esoanem » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 15:54

They for people of unknown gender (and hypotheticals) for as long as "they" has been the standard 3rd person plural pronoun (when it replaced Old English hī(e) some time before Middle English reemerged), prominent grammar guides started advocating for generic he when they went through their "pretend English is Latin" phase and despite the widespread repetition of the "rule", it's never really caught on with even the most hardcore of internet grammarians regularly using it without noticing. It's also far less obtrusive than "he/she", "(s)he", and to a lesser extent "he or she".

Using it for specific people is certainly not well attested until pretty recently but, well, as a non-binary person (whose pronouns are, per my signature, they/them/etc.), and knowing other trans people in various stages of transition who may not be read as their actual gender, doing my best not assume someone's gender and starting with "they" is a relatively small adjustment to my habits (albeit one that does definitely take some getting used to) that for some people can make them a lot more comfortable.
My pronouns are they/them/their

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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 18:17

Relatedly, I dunno why someone decided "xir" was an acceptable English pronoun. It looks like it came from a kid's first relex.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 18:30

...or a bad sci-fi alien language.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by esoanem » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 23:41

I don't really understand the appeal of it either tbh. Of the neo-pronouns I think Spivak's ey/em/eir is best but because it's closest to they the fact its used with singular conjugations can sound a bit weird.
My pronouns are they/them/their

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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by sangi39 » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 00:39

Like others above, I tend to use "they" when a person's gender is uncertain, then fall back on "he" or "she" when it becomes certain, with a few exceptions, e.g. when a person's preferred pronoun is "they" (a couple of gender fluid friends prefer "they", for example), or when I'm talking about a friend vaguely (I've often referred to both male and female friends singularly as "they"), but I'm not actually sure why I do that.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Ælfwine » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 01:05

ixals wrote:
Ælfwine wrote:Sims 4 is on sale and I am debating of getting it. The game seems like a massive disappointment compared to its predecessor but eh.
I've been a fan of the franchise for years, growing up with Sims 3 in my teens but also having played Sims 1 on my very first computer. I tried Sims 4, but for me it definitely is a massive disappointment. Well, it's been two years since I last played. It's gotten better over those two years (adding pools, babies etc.) but still it felt very flat to me back then. It was a very big step back imo just to make it more accessible to everyone. And I felt that. I see Sims 4 everywhere on YT being played by Let's Players I've never thought they would touch it while fans of the series are constantly complaining. I'd buy it because it does have its moments, however I think the longer you play the more boring it gets, way quicker than Sims 3 or Sims 2. With a good computer that can run Sims 3 smoothly and with a knowledge about where to get the necessary custom content in Sims 2, those two games are very much on par with Sims 4 especially Sims 2 imo considering it's from 2004.
Didn't get it. Ultimately the reason I love Sims 3 is because of its open world, open ended gameplay while I feel as if Sims 4 tries to fit you into a box and dictate your story for you. If I change my mind there are likely Christmas sales where I can get it even cheaper, but I don't think the core of the game will change and that's its major flaw.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by kiwikami » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 02:12

Ælfwine wrote:Didn't get it. Ultimately the reason I love Sims 3 is because of its open world, open ended gameplay while I feel as if Sims 4 tries to fit you into a box and dictate your story for you. If I change my mind there are likely Christmas sales where I can get it even cheaper, but I don't think the core of the game will change and that's its major flaw.
I've only ever played Sims 2. Still do, now and then. As ixals' says, if you know where to get custom content, it's quite on par with the later games. It's odd to think how old it is - it doesn't feel like a thirteen-year-old game at all. I'd like to play Sims 3 at some point, see how it compares; now that Sims 4 has come out one can probably find the third one relatively cheap somewhere.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Egerius » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 06:58

I own the first Sims (Deluxe Edition) with all following expansions, but it only ever ran on my damned x86 devil's machine prior to 2009. I played Sims 2 at some friend's house and eventually got Sims 3 for my iMac in 2009 (plus some expansions later on).
... And now I don't play The Sims anymore, since all I really enjoyed was designing/building the houses. But Sims 3 pays off, really, while Sims 4 looks like a step backwards with minimally fancier graphics.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by ixals » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 14:44

Ælfwine wrote:Didn't get it. Ultimately the reason I love Sims 3 is because of its open world, open ended gameplay while I feel as if Sims 4 tries to fit you into a box and dictate your story for you. If I change my mind there are likely Christmas sales where I can get it even cheaper, but I don't think the core of the game will change and that's its major flaw.
Yeah, the missing open world is definitely the biggest step back. It's one of the things I alluded to when saying they wanted the game "more accessible to everyone". I mean it's nice to reduce loading time by cutting the open world for players with very bad PCs but on the other hand it's bad for everyone else to "suffer" because of very restricted gameplay.
kiwikami wrote:I've only ever played Sims 2. Still do, now and then. As ixals' says, if you know where to get custom content, it's quite on par with the later games. It's odd to think how old it is - it doesn't feel like a thirteen-year-old game at all. I'd like to play Sims 3 at some point, see how it compares; now that Sims 4 has come out one can probably find the third one relatively cheap somewhere.
It's amazing how well it aged. Just this week I installed Sims 2 again and it's very fun to play (only the toddlers are so difficult for me to raise, I thought that would've been easier [:D]). Sadly, all my CC is gone and I need to download it all step by step. I only have defaults and some mods in my game for now. I miss the time when my game looked like this and this.
Egerius wrote: I own the first Sims (Deluxe Edition) with all following expansions, but it only ever ran on my damned x86 devil's machine prior to 2009. I played Sims 2 at some friend's house and eventually got Sims 3 for my iMac in 2009 (plus some expansions later on).
... And now I don't play The Sims anymore, since all I really enjoyed was designing/building the houses. But Sims 3 pays off, really, while Sims 4 looks like a step backwards with minimally fancier graphics.
I always played the first one at my aunt's house whenever we visited here. I'm very thankful that she introduced me to the series back then. But I think Sims 4 is said to be very good for building homes with all the tools they added. Although I hate the way you build there, the mechanics are really ... uhm gewöhnungsbedürftig (?). I also don't like that the ceilings are so high up in the Sims 4 tbh, but I guess that's just the American standard. [:S]
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Dormouse559 » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 16:37

sangi39 wrote:Like others above, I tend to use "they" when a person's gender is uncertain, then fall back on "he" or "she" when it becomes certain, with a few exceptions, e.g. when a person's preferred pronoun is "they" (a couple of gender fluid friends prefer "they", for example), or when I'm talking about a friend vaguely (I've often referred to both male and female friends singularly as "they"), but I'm not actually sure why I do that.
I do the same thing, for friends and non-friends. It happens most often when the person I'm talking to doesn't know the person I'm talking about.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Xonen » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 19:20

Egerius wrote:I don't use singular they (consciously, but I sometimes slip into it) since it wasn't part of my English Foreign Language education; thus it seems ungrammatical to me
I don't see why that would follow. Foreign language education is never truly comprehensive, and a lot of the time, it's just plain wrong.
the word human is of masculine gender
I don't know what they taught you in EFL, but English, uh, doesn't really have grammatical gender on nouns. The choice of pronoun has, especially traditionally, been based purely on biological sex: he for male referents and she for female ones - especially when talking about humans (for non-human animals you can usually use it to avoid specifying gender, but for humans that's kind of a no-no). Thus, if a human happens to be female, then she's a she - and by contrast, using he contains implications of maleness. For unknown referents, the typical prescribed usage has been he or she or some variation thereof - but singular they, despite being proscribed, has existed in colloquial usage for centuries.

Now, in many ancient cultures, it was of course considered acceptable to just assume that all referents were male (and thus to just default to he), since women weren't actually expected to do much worth talking about, or to even exist at all on the internet... Not to mention people who don't fit neatly into the simplistic binary categorization of two sexes/genders. But the world is changing, and I don't really see much point in stubbornly holding onto relics of less-enlightened times when there's no real need.

Ahzoh wrote:Relatedly, I dunno why someone decided "xir" was an acceptable English pronoun. It looks like it came from a kid's first relex.
I suppose the logic behind xe is that x stands for 'unspecified', which actually makes some sense, IMO. But yeah, it doesn't really work that well for the corresponding object and possessive forms.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 19:58

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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Frislander » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 20:07

Thrice Xandvii wrote:http://theaustinstollhaus.tumblr.com/po ... -the-worst

Eesh, just... eesh!
For that last point I remember somebody else on that hellsite thinking than "inclusive" was a tense as well (this in relatin to Cherokee). But yeah everything else is just standard linguistic ignorance, though that doesn't make it any easier to read through.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Egerius » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 20:10

Thrice Xandvii wrote:Eesh, just... eesh!
Can I just go and revoke this guy's Contract of Animacy?
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by lsd » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 20:52

Anglophilia because of neutral gender is an epidemic disease that causes mental confusion between gender and sexuality...
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 22:18

It's one of those cases where I literally don't have the energy to refute his moronic points.

Anyone know what this character means: 虇?
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Tue 24 Oct 2017, 01:46

Thrice Xandvii wrote:Anyone know what this character means: 虇?
It’s pronounced quăn and means a) 芦笋 lúsŭn - asparagus; b) the shoot of a reed or similar plant

I use Wang Li’s Dictionary of Classical Chinese for obscure characters. I haven’t checked but I’m sure there’s an online version.
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