The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Tue 26 Dec 2017, 22:36

Frislander wrote:
Tue 26 Dec 2017, 20:24
So I just found out a couple of hours ago that my last remaining relative of my grandparents's generation (my maternal grandfather) has terminal pneumonia and could be gone within the week. I'm taking it really quite well, though I know I'm gonna be in tears at the actual funeral. Me and my brother have pretty firmly told our mum we didn't want to go see him before he goes, just because he basically has dementia anyway and the combination of that and the morphine means he probably wouldn't even register our presence. In fact the dementia means this is kind of an answered prayer really, because we knew he was going downhill and we'd wished he'd die earlier and spare us the grief of a prolonged loss of mental faculties (the last time she visited him with her sisters my mum told me he forgot his eldest daughter was married during the course of the visit).
Dementia and Alzheimer's are both really rough on the loved ones of the ill. It makes them feel guilty for not being around, but at the same time, spares them of the frustration and anguish of trying to explain who they are and what year it is for the entirety of a visit only for it to be entirely likely that the person remains confused anyway despite the effort. I wouldn't wish those slowly deteriorating conditions of the mind on anyone or their families, it's a very hard row to hoe.

Regardless, I hope his passing goes as easily for everyone involved as is possible and I am sorry to hear of your impending loss. :'(
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 27 Dec 2017, 00:04

Frislander wrote:
Tue 26 Dec 2017, 20:24
So I just found out a couple of hours ago that my last remaining relative of my grandparents' generation (my maternal grandfather) has terminal pneumonia and could be gone within the week. I'm taking it really quite ....
he'd die earlier and spare us the grief of a prolonged loss of mental faculties (the last time she visited him with her sisters my mum told me he forgot his eldest daughter was married during the course of the visit).
I'm sorry for this.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Wed 27 Dec 2017, 02:18

Frislander wrote:
Tue 26 Dec 2017, 20:24
So I just found out a couple of hours ago that my last remaining relative of my grandparents's generation (my maternal grandfather) has terminal pneumonia and could be gone within the week. I'm taking it really quite well, though I know I'm gonna be in tears at the actual funeral. Me and my brother have pretty firmly told our mum we didn't want to go see him before he goes, just because he basically has dementia anyway and the combination of that and the morphine means he probably wouldn't even register our presence. In fact the dementia means this is kind of an answered prayer really, because we knew he was going downhill and we'd wished he'd die earlier and spare us the grief of a prolonged loss of mental faculties (the last time she visited him with her sisters my mum told me he forgot his eldest daughter was married during the course of the visit).
Of course I can't tell you what's best to do in your situation, but I, having been there and done that, would most stròngly urge you and your brother to rethink this decision.

On the outside, we like to think that somehow those who are suffering dementia or alzheimers are "gone". That's the lie their caregivers tell us; it's the lie we tell ourselves. It makes the doctors and the nurses feel better, and truth be told, it makes us feel, perhaps not "good", but at least "better" about an utterly shitsome situation. It's the myth we use to explain our present situation. But I can say from experience that they most certainly are not gone!

Somewhere in the crumbling wreckage of the mind and the brain is a battered soul, besieged and relentlessly harried from all sides. Your grandfather, trapped, unable perhaps to formulate what we think of as a sensible stream of speech. But somewhere in there is the human person, trying to make sense of what's happening to him, very possibly feeling abandoned, certainly feeling alone.

Just go to him a few times before he slips away at last. Hold his hand. Even if he can no longer talk, he can still hear you. If you have any memories of him at all, just sit with him and talk. Let him know he's loved.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 27 Dec 2017, 02:28

Very sorry to hear that, Frislander. I hope things work out as well as they can.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by esoanem » Wed 27 Dec 2017, 11:31

Sorry to hear about that. It's really rough losing relatives, particularly around christmas.

I hope it isn't too hard on you
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 27 Dec 2017, 23:40

I agree with elemtilas about visiting sick or hospitalize or otherwise institutionalize relatives who aren't quite "in". But I don't have enough experience to think I'm really in a position to give that advice.---Whatever you end up doing, my sympathies will be with you.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao » Thu 28 Dec 2017, 01:35

elem wrote:Just go to him a few times before he slips away at last. Hold his hand. Even if he can no longer talk, he can still hear you. If you have any memories of him at all, just sit with him and talk. Let him know he's loved.
[+1]

My Mom passed away last year (Oct 4). She died from supra-nuclear palsy, a degenerative disease like Parkinson's and/or Alzheimer's. On visits, we would wear out my son's I-Phone battery showing her old episodes of Froggie the Gremlin, Stefano DiMera & John Black on Days of Our Lives, ancient Robert Hall's jingles by Mary Ford & Les Paul, goofy Schmoo cartoons, old old Jonathan Winters, Foster Brooks routines & roasts. Elvis singing gospel, Kenny Rogers, the Mammas and the Pappas. We even snuck in some "Murder She Wrote" and "Law & Order". Thank gucking God for Youtube. She would seem to just stare blankly, but, without the ability to speak, she would wiggle toes to show approval or dissent, or bop them to a favorite rhythm. When one wishes to communicate, even a throaty wookie gronk is worth a thousand words.

One of the last visits where she had some consciousness to her, my sister was going over some 'final preparations' (Mim was remarkably cool-headed about her accelerating mortality).
Sis said to her "You have no worries, Mom. All your ducks are in a row". Her last words weren't even words, but spoke volumes. She replied "Quack quack quack".

I'd say go visit. So many people can hold grudges until death, and not want to see, or allow to see, certain relatives. If you can go, Frislander, I second it. Hold that hand. A week may turn out to be a very generous guesstimate, considering these sorts of things. Doctors were giving my Mom a month or two more from September; she didn't make it to Halloween, her favorite holiday.

If you can go, then go.
[:)]
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao » Thu 28 Dec 2017, 01:38

eldin raigmore wrote:
Wed 27 Dec 2017, 23:40
I agree with elemtilas about visiting sick or hospitalize or otherwise institutionalize relatives who aren't quite "in". But I don't have enough experience to think I'm really in a position to give that advice.---Whatever you end up doing, my sympathies will be with you.
@ Frislander (or to anyone, really)
If they were there for you in any way,

be there for them.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Frislander » Sat 30 Dec 2017, 14:08

Well in the end I had no chance to even if I had wanted to. We went up to our house further north on Wednesday and that evening mum got a call saying he had died (i.e. the very next day after my mum had learnt it was terminal to begin with), and that not even my aunt who lives right near to him could get there in time, much less ourselves.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sat 30 Dec 2017, 19:23

That's too bad, I'm sorry you didn't have more time.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 30 Dec 2017, 22:59

Rest in peace.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Sat 30 Dec 2017, 23:27

Frislander wrote:
Sat 30 Dec 2017, 14:08
Well in the end I had no chance to even if I had wanted to. We went up to our house further north on Wednesday and that evening mum got a call saying he had died (i.e. the very next day after my mum had learnt it was terminal to begin with), and that not even my aunt who lives right near to him could get there in time, much less ourselves.
Ohh, sorry to hear that, Fris!!
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 31 Dec 2017, 03:21

elemtilas wrote:
Sat 30 Dec 2017, 23:27
Frislander wrote:
Sat 30 Dec 2017, 14:08
Well in the end I had no chance to even if I had wanted to. We went up to our house further north on Wednesday and that evening mum got a call saying he had died (i.e. the very next day after my mum had learnt it was terminal to begin with), and that not even my aunt who lives right near to him could get there in time, much less ourselves.
Ohh, sorry to hear that, Fris!!
My condolences, Frislander.

May he rest in peace,
and may his memory live on in you !
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 31 Dec 2017, 08:29

Lambuzhao wrote:
Sun 31 Dec 2017, 03:21
[...]And may his memory live on in you !
I just want to say that that is a really beautiful (secular) sentiment about someone's passing. I need to remember that, because I really do like that idea and the thought that goes with it!
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Sun 31 Dec 2017, 11:27

Frislander wrote:
Sat 30 Dec 2017, 14:08
Well in the end I had no chance to even if I had wanted to. We went up to our house further north on Wednesday and that evening mum got a call saying he had died (i.e. the very next day after my mum had learnt it was terminal to begin with), and that not even my aunt who lives right near to him could get there in time, much less ourselves.
I'm sorry, Frislander.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 31 Dec 2017, 16:09

I'm so sorry to hear that Frislander. I lost my own grandfather a few days after Christmas a few years ago.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 31 Dec 2017, 17:56

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Sun 31 Dec 2017, 08:29
Lambuzhao wrote:
Sun 31 Dec 2017, 03:21
[...]And may his memory live on in you !
I just want to say that that is a really beautiful (secular) sentiment about someone's passing. I need to remember that, because I really do like that idea and the thought that goes with it!
Secular or not, it has a long-standing tradition in the Eastern/Orthodox Churches.

Credit where credit's due:

Вѣчьнаꙗ памѧть / :ukr: Вічная Пам'ять (though this link is :rus: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si_H9GXuGtU

:ell: Αἰωνία ἡ μνήμη
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWKGQStYLVI

Copts sing
APIПAMЄYI Aripamevi "Lord, Remember Me" (The Words of St. Dismas the Good Thief)

(12" long remix)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJVE_WK0aDE

(45 rpm EP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0On3I9kPkh0



ФMЄYI NЄNЄϨ !
DEF.M.SG.remember<NMLZ> PRP=eternity
memory eternal!

All to remind us
until we can bring them back and/or go visit them back when,
this is all we can (and should) really do.

From another point of view, it's (that is, μνήμη 'memory' + κῦδος 'glory') what Achilles wanted instead of a family and peaceable kingdom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_O68HUcHos

Agschully, more like this:

If I hold out here and I lay siege to Troy,
my journey home is gone, but my glory never dies.
(Liber IX )

Against the vicissitudes of Time and the vagaries of the gods, Remembrance (whether glorified or humbly loved) is humanity's vorpalest, truest, onliest weapon.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Mon 01 Jan 2018, 05:53

For those of you strange folks who celebrate the New Year, like, three months early . . .
Spoiler:
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(Advanced) Happy New Year!!
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If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Frislander » Mon 01 Jan 2018, 12:12

Happy new year and manifold blessings upon you all!
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis » Mon 01 Jan 2018, 12:13

Frislander wrote:
Sat 30 Dec 2017, 14:08
Well in the end I had no chance to even if I had wanted to. We went up to our house further north on Wednesday and that evening mum got a call saying he had died (i.e. the very next day after my mum had learnt it was terminal to begin with), and that not even my aunt who lives right near to him could get there in time, much less ourselves.
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