The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Sun 12 Aug 2018, 22:12

??? When the hell was “cripple” ever a slur???
I guess I must have been living in a different world! :$: [:S] [:$]
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 01:51

I’d never seen “dike” as a word before. Like Sangi said, the y-spelling seems to cover all meanings in modern UK usage.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:17

Well, what do you know. I've always seen the levee with an i. That's the way the word appeared in my Macmillian Children's Dictionary, before I learned that there was also a dyke with a y that meant lesbian. (The story of Hans putting his finger in a dike was also with an i.)
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:28

eldin raigmore wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 22:12
??? When the hell was “cripple” ever a slur???
I guess I must have been living in a different world! :$: [:S] [:$]
I think so. I know I have!

Seriously, any word in the language can be a slur: but only if we let ourselves become its victim. There was a time in our culture when a) we as children were taught about bricks and stones breaking ones bones; and b) just shrugging off the stupidity of (verbal) bullies. Anymore, the snowflakes churn up into a big old blizzard as soon as someone says the least insignificant thing. Most annoying.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Micamo » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:34

Yes, "cripple" is a slur and has been for many many years.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by sangi39 » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:48

elemtilas wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:28
eldin raigmore wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 22:12
??? When the hell was “cripple” ever a slur???
I guess I must have been living in a different world! :$: [:S] [:$]
I think so. I know I have!

Seriously, any word in the language can be a slur: but only if we let ourselves become its victim. There was a time in our culture when a) we as children were taught about bricks and stones breaking ones bones; and b) just shrugging off the stupidity of (verbal) bullies. Anymore, the snowflakes churn up into a big old blizzard as soon as someone says the least insignificant thing. Most annoying.
I may have to disagree. "Sticks and stones", to use the term I learned, is all well and good, trying to teach young children that some things aren't of any consequence (being called "short" when you're a couple of inches shorter than everybody else, or "lefty" when this, despite left-handed people making up 30% of people, makes no difference to your ability to write, let alone read), but some things are of consequence and some bullies will use that to their advantage. "Cripple" has, at least where and when I've grown up, always been a slur, spoken maybe in the same way to "pick on" those who are different, but in the case of the handicapped it does point to a very real difference between them and other people which can and does put them at a disadvantage.

It's not so much those referred to by those terms trying to "shrug of the stupidity of bullies" as it is us, as a whole, recognising that some terms might, to those we are speaking to, be more impactful than others with regards to there state*

Then again, as always, context. Some people might be perfectly fine being called "crippled" in general, because that term isn't offensive to them, which is likely to differ depending on where they came from and when they grew up, in the same way that "coloured" might or might not be offensive to some black people. And then of course there's "reclaimed" slurs, which might be used broadly by some or specifically by others (I will wreak havoc and pain on anyone who calls me a faggot, other than my brother and my ex-wife, and maybe my mum, but the last time she "accidentally used a homosexual slur" was the day I came out, and she looked mortified until I jokingly said "what the f**k" laughed and hugged her [:P] ).

What is offensive is, to a point, individual, and we should strive to take that into account as much as we can. If we insult someone directly, we should apologise, and be mindful next time, but you don't have to change the way you speak all the time because some person in Nantucket found a term offensive. Basically, don't be a dick.



* Sal, Frislander and I recently mentioned the word "chinky" which is pretty near universally recognised as being offensive when referring to Chinese people, but I've heard it used frequently where I'm from (which is within driving distance of either of them) as a term for Chinese food, especially from a take-away restaurant, but I know damn well that using that term in that take-away is going to get me some looks from the staff. From what I can recognise of the language spoken in the kitchen, they're either Cantonese or the children of Cantonese speakers and "chinky" is not going to go down well there.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:04

Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:17
(The story of Hans putting his finger in a dike was also with an i.)
Well that's a relief. [O.O]
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by sangi39 » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:21

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:04
Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:17
(The story of Hans putting his finger in a dike was also with an i.)
Well that's a relief. [O.O]
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lao Kou » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:40

.
Last edited by Lao Kou on Mon 13 Aug 2018, 07:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Lao Kou » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:55

sangi39 wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:21
KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:04
For non-native English speakers who may not understand the playground retort, it's (as I learned it):
Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But words shall never harm me
Nice playground advice for playground bullying. But words do mean things and the words they engender harm and inform government policy.

Surely you can see how "crippled" might be considered offensive in certain quarters.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 06:28

sangi39 wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 02:48
Then again, as always, context. Some people might be perfectly fine being called "crippled" in general, because that term isn't offensive to them, which is likely to differ depending on where they came from and when they grew up, in the same way that "coloured" might or might not be offensive to some black people. And then of course there's "reclaimed" slurs, which might be used broadly by some or specifically by others (I will wreak havoc and pain on anyone who calls me a faggot, other than my brother and my ex-wife, and maybe my mum, but the last time she "accidentally used a homosexual slur" was the day I came out, and she looked mortified until I jokingly said "what the f**k" laughed and hugged her [:P] ).
And yes, context is a key! If someone sees a woman who (and I don't even really know what this might look like, but I've heard people talk like they know) "is obviously homosexual" and refers to her as a dyke, no, that's not cool. If you're talking about actual dykes (and this is really where my point is headed), then no, that is not a slur. That is an ordinary English word. And quite frankly, I will not (and I am unanimous in this) stop using a perfectly ordinary word just because some people use it as a slur.

I also (appropriately) use the word fagot for a bundle of twigs or an early kind of bassoon. Don't have much call to use either, except in writing! But I'd certainly never say or write it to refer to a person.
What is offensive is, to a point, individual, and we should strive to take that into account as much as we can. If we insult someone directly, we should apologise, and be mindful next time, but you don't have to change the way you speak all the time because some person in Nantucket found a term offensive. Basically, don't be a dick.
Exactly! Which is why I don't use these words to refer to people. Period. I use those words to refer to what they actually refer to. To be honest with you, I even have difficulty saying these kinds of insult words aloud when trying to explain to someone else what was said! Case in point: I recently overheard a convo between two coworkers. One used an insult word referring to (East) Asians. The other coworker read him the riot act. The next day, my wife (East Asian) and I were talking to the (East) Asian person the epithet was applied to. Somehow the talk turned to that particular event and she wanted to know what was said. I couldn't bring myself to repeat it, so abhorrent to me is the practice of ethnic (religious, social, sexual, etc.) slurring. Mind you, the word in question has no utility as an ordinary word, so I wouldn't ever have a need to use out outside that singular instance.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 06:43

Lao Kou wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:55
sangi39 wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:21
KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 03:04
For non-native English speakers who may not understand the playground retort, it's (as I learned it):
Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But words shall never harm me
Nice playground advice for playground bullying. But words do mean things and the words they engender harm and inform government policy.

Surely you can see how "crippled" might be considered offensive in certain quarters.
Of course. Definitely getting side tracked here! Long and short of it: words do have meaning. But I chose what they mean to me. I choose whether to be victimised by a word. I choose which baggage I'll carry on my heart and what to let go of.

I was bullied as a child. Pretty badly, by one in particular. Verbally & physically. I learned long ago that the bully in question, his words and his deeds were not baggage worth carrying with me. Was he wrong to behave that way? Sure. That's neither here nor there. What I intuitively understood was that I had a Choice of responses. Retaliation in kind, while a delicious daydream at the time, I knew was a non-starter. That's not how a human being behaves, lowering himself to the gutter that way. Also, turning myself over to victimhood, and I had no idea what those words would have meant at the time, while an understandable reaction, was also a non-starter. If the bully dehumanises me by hitting me or calling me names that's bad; but letting myself be victimised by him is me dehumanising myself, and that is very bad indeed. The only real choice to be made was to look him through the eyes and turn the other cheek. That is how a man responds to a bully. And mind you, it was nòt my cheeks he was striking!
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Dormouse559 » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 22:08

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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 22:30

Heh. Needəd that!
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by alynnidalar » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 14:29

Not been sleeping well lately. Don't know why. For some reason light in my bedroom has been really bothering me lately, much moreso than earlier this year, which doesn't make any sense because if anything, there's less light when I'm sleeping now than last month.

EDIT: in happier news, I'm stupidly excited for NaNoWriMo even though it's over two months away. I have the inkling of an idea (new conworld this time--the past four years was all set in my dalar conworld that I post about here) and I can't wait! NaNo's one of my favorite times of the year. This'll be Year 11 for me.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 17:39

alynnidalar wrote:
Fri 17 Aug 2018, 14:29
Not been sleeping well lately. Don't know why. For some reason light in my bedroom has been really bothering me lately, much moreso than earlier this year, which doesn't make any sense because if anything, there's less light when I'm sleeping now than last month.

EDIT: in happier news, I'm stupidly excited for NaNoWriMo even though it's over two months away. I have the inkling of an idea (new conworld this time--the past four years was all set in my dalar conworld that I post about here) and I can't wait! NaNo's one of my favorite times of the year. This'll be Year 11 for me.


What latitude do you live at?
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by alynnidalar » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 15:03

42.7N
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 22:19

alynnidalar wrote:
Sat 18 Aug 2018, 15:03
42.7N
I live at 42.44 N, just about. 18 nautical miles south of you.
So, it’s not because you live to close to the Arctic Circle.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 19 Aug 2018, 00:29

You randomly bring up linguistics to friends and family?

Meh, I'm not that type. Besides, my parents already know what a schwa is.

Fun fact: When I was in the tenth grade, my English teacher appointed me to conduct a spelling bee for my class. (She knew I had gone to the Nationals in the eighth grade.) We started out with easy words like "deluded", "effortlessly" and "barbecue", and ended up with "killer words", as our teacher requested, such as "ocotillo", "inaccommodable" and "Xhosa", which were drawn from a hat. The winning word happened to be . . . "schwa"!
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