My sister

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JANKO GORENC
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My sister

Post by JANKO GORENC » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 12:47

Hi,

My sister says that she knows from a head (from the head) about 400 people (mostly in Slovenia) birthdays for celebrities.

I wonder if anyone else is dealing with this in the world, or in Europe?
And for how many people would know to say birthdays.
Today, on 4.7.2016, I have successfully collected numbers from over 26,024 ways (languages both: natlangs and also conlangs).
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Lambuzhao
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Re: My sister

Post by Lambuzhao » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 13:09

Just for clarification: you're asking «How many birthdays do you know/can recall?»

I'm lucky if I can recall about 2 dozen birthdays. I should know more. [:S]
Time to send some belated B-day cards... :roll:

this kind of question is, IMHO, about 2-3 Kevin Bacon steps away from "How many phone numbers do you remember?"
To which I can say that I recall about 5-6 phone numbers, and about 4 of those are no longer in service. [¬.¬]
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elemtilas
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Re: My sister

Post by elemtilas » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 14:09

Lambuzhao wrote:Just for clarification: you're asking «How many birthdays do you know/can recall?»

I'm lucky if I can recall about 2 dozen birthdays. I should know more. [:S]
Time to send some belated B-day cards... :roll:

this kind of question is, IMHO, about 2-3 Kevin Bacon steps away from "How many phone numbers do you remember?"
To which I can say that I recall about 5-6 phone numbers, and about 4 of those are no longer in service. [¬.¬]
[xD]

This is one of those Fundamental Laws of Nature. Girls are just naturally superior at remembering birthdays, names and telephone numbers. Not only of family, but of seemingly random people.

My mother (and my aunts and girl cousins) know everyone's birthdays. And they have a curious Alternative Geometry for Deriving Anyone's Age. This seems largely to involve knowing how old oneself is, plus a reference relative. Everything else simply unfolds as if by magic. The geometry then proceeds: well, let's see, I turned 56 last August, so that means Josh was 61 last July, because he started kindergarten when I was born; and he and Judy got married when they were both 21, back in 1982 and little Rick came along on Judy's 27th birthday, and that was April 1st, so Ricky's what 35 this year; so that makes his cousin Kris also 35 because she was born six months later, on October 1st; now, her mom, your Aunt Rita was born on October 2nd, so Kris was almost a birthday baby, and she was 33 that birthday, so take away one and less thirty-three and that makes Rita 67 this year.

Inday is the same way: she knows not only everyone's birthday in her own family, but everyone's birthday in my family as well! Plus birthdays of all her friends from grammar school, high school, university. Plus birthdays of friends and coworkers. Plus birth and death anniversaries of older relatives & those of friends' grandparents. And she knows all their names, where they live and what careers they went into after uni.

Canny.
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Re: My sister

Post by kiwikami » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 14:52

I am abysmal at birthdays. My calendars are eternally studded with them so that I remember to send cards to relevant people, but that doesn't always help.

I believe I know a half-dozen phone numbers, but only one of them (my own) is still in use. The others were all ones I or close family members used to have. License plates are somewhat more clear. Birthdays and phone number and things are all too helpful to know in everyday life, is the issue; most numerical information that I have successfully memorized is positively useless. :roll:
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
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Re: My sister

Post by Ketumak » Tue 25 Jul 2017, 18:41

I'm good with landline phone numbers. Perhaps it comes with being a library cataloguer. I use ISBNs and class numbers at work a lot, so I get a lot of practice at remembering long numbers. I seem to have a mental block with mobile (cell) phone numbers though. They're a little bit longer here in the UK, I use them less often and when I do I tend to pick from a contacts list so don't need to them so much.

Birthday's I'm not so good on. Janko's sister remembering 400 is very impressive.
Good: :fra: :esp: :por: | OK :ita:

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Lambuzhao
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Re: My sister

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 26 Jul 2017, 07:06

elemtilas wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:Just for clarification: you're asking «How many birthdays do you know/can recall?»

I'm lucky if I can recall about 2 dozen birthdays. I should know more. [:S]
Time to send some belated B-day cards... :roll:

this kind of question is, IMHO, about 2-3 Kevin Bacon steps away from "How many phone numbers do you remember?"
To which I can say that I recall about 5-6 phone numbers, and about 4 of those are no longer in service. [¬.¬]
[xD]

This is one of those Fundamental Laws of Nature. Girls are just naturally superior at remembering birthdays, names and telephone numbers. Not only of family, but of seemingly random people.

My mother (and my aunts and girl cousins) know everyone's birthdays. And they have a curious Alternative Geometry for Deriving Anyone's Age. This seems largely to involve knowing how old oneself is, plus a reference relative. Everything else simply unfolds as if by magic. The geometry then proceeds: well, let's see, I turned 56 last August, so that means Josh was 61 last July, because he started kindergarten when I was born; and he and Judy got married when they were both 21, back in 1982 and little Rick came along on Judy's 27th birthday, and that was April 1st, so Ricky's what 35 this year; so that makes his cousin Kris also 35 because she was born six months later, on October 1st; now, her mom, your Aunt Rita was born on October 2nd, so Kris was almost a birthday baby, and she was 33 that birthday, so take away one and less thirty-three and that makes Rita 67 this year.

Inday is the same way: she knows not only everyone's birthday in her own family, but everyone's birthday in my family as well! Plus birthdays of all her friends from grammar school, high school, university. Plus birthdays of friends and coworkers. Plus birth and death anniversaries of older relatives & those of friends' grandparents. And she knows all their names, where they live and what careers they went into after uni.

Canny.
Wow. That's incredible. Was that some 'New Math' course they offered at their high school, maybe?
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Axiem
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Re: My sister

Post by Axiem » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 02:45

elemtilas wrote:Girls are just naturally superior at remembering birthdays, names and telephone numbers. Not only of family, but of seemingly random people.
There is nothing inherently gendered about remembering a list of names and corresponding dates, or arbitrary numbers—historians and mathematicians both male and female have been doing it for a very long time. The exercise in mnemonic techniques you elaborate on also is very common: it is much easier to remember things in relation to each other, and then to remember one or two stable points, than it is to remember dozens of stable points. Again, while the invasion of 1066 may be a stable point, historians will then remember how many years after the invasion things happened, and use that to calculate the date. There is nothing special here. No magic.

However, girls are socialized from a very young age to remember these names and dates for family and friends, and boys are not. Mothers rope their daughters in to help buy gifts for the rest; boys are left to wallow in not thinking about. After all, platitudes such as the one you uttered abound, and become self-fulfilling prophecies. When the joke is that boys often forget their wife's birthdate or anniversary date, then they know that it is perfectly okay to do so. When the joke is that girls remember everything, often with a clear indication that those who don't aren't "good enough", then there is an incentive to do so. This is known in some circles as "emotional labor", and it's noted by those circles that emotional labor is often offloaded onto women, forcing them to manage it.

But, there is no natural superiority to speak of. No magic gene on the portion of an X-chromosome that has no matching pair on a Y-chromosome (I'm ignoring instances where karyotype does not match phenotype). No magic hormone difference that affects memorization of arbitrary facts. It's purely a misogynistic social construction that reinforces itself with each person who repeats its inanities.
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Re: My sister

Post by Salmoneus » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 14:15

Axiem wrote:
elemtilas wrote:Girls are just naturally superior at remembering birthdays, names and telephone numbers. Not only of family, but of seemingly random people.
There is nothing inherently gendered about remembering a list of names and corresponding dates, or arbitrary numbers—historians and mathematicians both male and female have been doing it for a very long time. The exercise in mnemonic techniques you elaborate on also is very common: it is much easier to remember things in relation to each other, and then to remember one or two stable points, than it is to remember dozens of stable points. Again, while the invasion of 1066 may be a stable point, historians will then remember how many years after the invasion things happened, and use that to calculate the date. There is nothing special here. No magic.

However, girls are socialized from a very young age to remember these names and dates for family and friends, and boys are not. Mothers rope their daughters in to help buy gifts for the rest; boys are left to wallow in not thinking about. After all, platitudes such as the one you uttered abound, and become self-fulfilling prophecies. When the joke is that boys often forget their wife's birthdate or anniversary date, then they know that it is perfectly okay to do so. When the joke is that girls remember everything, often with a clear indication that those who don't aren't "good enough", then there is an incentive to do so. This is known in some circles as "emotional labor", and it's noted by those circles that emotional labor is often offloaded onto women, forcing them to manage it.

But, there is no natural superiority to speak of. No magic gene on the portion of an X-chromosome that has no matching pair on a Y-chromosome (I'm ignoring instances where karyotype does not match phenotype). No magic hormone difference that affects memorization of arbitrary facts. It's purely a misogynistic social construction that reinforces itself with each person who repeats its inanities.
I agree 98% with what you say, and apologise for not having come in to confront elemtilas about the misogyny more quickly (it's just that when I do that it tends to become ugly).

I would say, though, that while women do not have any superior ability to memorise things (if anything, they may actually have a slight disadvantage on average, at least in extreme cases*), I think some studies have suggest that women may on average have more interest in social relationships, and be more willing to memorise these things rather than other things - and that this is also seen in other apes. However, it is of course almost impossible to distinguish genetics from early-onset socialisation, including in apes, so nothing much can be said for sure. Nonetheless, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that women on average incline differently in their social lives, even if there's no specific gene for it that can be identified. Studies do suggest, for instance, that there may (on average!) be differences in patterns of sexual desire between men and women (and between women with different reproductive statuses), which is a form of social interaction pattern.

I don't think this theoretical possibility detracts from your justified condemnation of the sort of blanket stereotyping deployed above, however, and I hope you don't take it as offensive.

*I say this because ASD and ASD-like mental traits, including extreme rote memorisation abilities, seem to be far more common in males, and can express very early and have genetic links. I've no idea, however, whether the high preponderance of 'extreme' cases reflects any tendency in the population as a whole, or whether it is, as it were, its own thing.
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elemtilas
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Re: My sister

Post by elemtilas » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 20:33

Salmoneus wrote:
elemtilas wrote:Girls are just naturally superior at remembering birthdays, names and telephone numbers.
I apologise for not having come in to confront elemtilas about the misogyny more quickly.
Bless me father, for i have sinned!! It's been 5 minutes since i last recognised & respected woman's natural superiority! Woman is more beautiful than man; more pleasant; more civilised; yes more relationship oriented. If the recognition of the male race's shortcomings and the extolation of the female's qualities counts as "disdain and disrespect" for women, then clearly it is you sir with the problem.
(it's just that when I do that it tends to become ugly)
Any ugliness in these exchanges comes from deep within your own heart & mind. With all due respect, i've experienced several direct encounters with you and have witnessed many more. You are rude & condescending, more obnoxious than you need to be and, quite simply, an intollerably useless correspindent here. A terrible combination when coupled with your obvious intelligence and learning, by no means worthy of your red letters.

Sir, if you can with straight face accuse me of hating women, of disparaging them, when what i said comes on the contrary from the deepest respect & love, humorously & affectionately stated, then it is you who are the twisted one.
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Re: My sister

Post by qwed117 » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 20:45

Sexism, not misogyny. Both suck tho.
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elemtilas
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Re: My sister

Post by elemtilas » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 20:55

qwed117 wrote:Sexism, not misogyny. Both suck tho.
Sexism is "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."

Misogyny is "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women."

Both suck. Neither are in play here.
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Re: My sister

Post by qwed117 » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 22:53

elemtilas wrote:
qwed117 wrote:Sexism, not misogyny. Both suck tho.
Sexism is "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."

Misogyny is "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women."

Both suck. Neither are in play here.
[¬.¬]
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What is made of man will crumble away.
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Re: My sister

Post by alynnidalar » Mon 31 Jul 2017, 18:29

elemtilas, my man. No one is saying you hate women. They're saying that the statement you made (regarding women being somehow genetically better at remembering dates and such) is not actually true, and that it reinforces unfortunate and negative stereotypes about both men and women. It's OK to be incorrect about something, so long as we learn from it.

As someone with an interest in linguistics such as yourself, you surely are aware that terms like "misogyny" and "sexism" have broader usages than "hates women", and that pulling out a dictionary definition is a poor way to prove a point.
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Re: My sister

Post by masako » Mon 31 Jul 2017, 18:59

alynnidalar wrote:elemtilas, my man. No one is saying you hate women. They're saying that the statement you made (regarding women being somehow genetically better at remembering dates and such) is not actually true, and that it reinforces unfortunate and negative stereotypes about both men and women. It's OK to be incorrect about something, so long as we learn from it.

As someone with an interest in linguistics such as yourself, you surely are aware that terms like "misogyny" and "sexism" have broader usages than "hates women", and that pulling out a dictionary definition is a poor way to prove a point.
You really should try to be less helpful. It degrades your roguish charm.

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Re: My sister

Post by lsd » Mon 31 Jul 2017, 19:07

Grab your torch and pitchforks !
(No need, women and men will soon be as empty as wind, with their externalized memories (and their savings) in California)
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Re: My sister

Post by elemtilas » Tue 01 Aug 2017, 02:20

alynnidalar wrote:elemtilas, my man. No one is saying you hate women.
One person is, actually. That's rather enough, thank you very kindly.
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Re: My sister

Post by Ahzoh » Tue 01 Aug 2017, 06:10

Bah, get over it! The central message here is that these stereotypes contribute to unfair standards for men and women.
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Re: My sister

Post by masako » Tue 01 Aug 2017, 11:46

Ahzoh wrote:Bah, get over it! The central message here is that these stereotypes contribute to unfair standards.

men and women.
No reason to be so binary. Sheesh.

/silliness
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elemtilas
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Re: My sister

Post by elemtilas » Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:01

Ahzoh wrote:Bah, get over it! The central message here is that these stereotypes contribute to unfair standards for men and women.
If it were just a simple insult, that would hardly register. There is a greater principle, and that is you don't defame others' character without very good reason and without evidence.

Anyway, all stereotypes involved were positive. So get over thát. But you know what, males and females are different. [O.O] I know this basic truth is impolitic to utter in our modern culture, where boys and girls have to be equal in all things or else some snowflake will get his knickers in a bind, but there it is. Men are simply better at some things. Women are simply better at some things. Honoring women for things they're better at is no sin. Except to the lefties, of course, but I really don't give a fiddler's fart what a load of lefties think.
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Re: My sister

Post by MrKrov » Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:58

elemtilas wrote:Anyway, all stereotypes involved were positive.
Unless you are a dude or remember there's really no such thing as a positive stereotype?

...

On the grounds Lammy is being unreasonable yet again, can we just close this already?
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