Communism [split]

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:18

Ahzoh wrote:Literally everything is propaganda. It's a tool.
That's obviously untrue or the word itself would have no meaning.
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:21

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Literally everything is propaganda. It's a tool.
That's obviously untrue or the word itself would have no meaning.
It's hyperbolic but by your own logic everything that excludes details, especially counterpoints, to present an argument is propaganda. You should know some things get negative connotations for understandable but still ill-mistaken reasons.
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by qwed117 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:40

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Literally everything is propaganda. It's a tool.
That's obviously untrue or the word itself would have no meaning.
???

That's an unwarranted statement. You should just counter with the definition of propaganda "Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented".
There's plenty of statements that don't fall under that definition
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:42

It's not best to resort to the dictionary fallacy. Propaganda isn't bad; it's a tool and the propaganda communists provide is not designed to deceive or mislead. Furthermore people dismiss communist arguments as "propaganda".
Last edited by Ahzoh on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by qwed117 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:47

Ahzoh wrote:It's not best to resort to the dictionary fallacy.
Yes, but let's not resort to the fallacy fallacy.

My point is simple: he doesn't actually state an argument, merely a conclusion. Using a dictionary to form an argument is probably better than having none.
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 21:55

Point is, communists don't need to lie and our vision is not hinged on lies. You can't say the same for capitalists and fascists.
I'm annoyed by every insinuation otherwise.
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Re: The Quintessential 5th Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 22:53

Ahzoh wrote:But communists don't need to lie;
Actually, the only way you can possibly recruit new commies is to lie about the dreadful nature of the system. You saw the pictures. You ignored their meaning. I can only suppose you've accepted the Communist lie.
we are all explicit and public in our intentions and we make no joke about the violence we will do against our oppressors or the cost of life.
And with that sentence you have already lost the ideological war.

I really don't care what your ideology is, but once you start threatening other people's lives and wellbeing as you've done here, you have just shouted to the whole world that you have no ideas worth discussing, no ideologies worth getting interested in, no direction worth taking and no moral compass worth following.

Sorry, but all you're doing here is declaring yourself worthless. And I just don't get that! You've always come across as an intelligent and creative person. Whence the hatred and violence? When did evil so consume your heart?

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Re: Communism [split]

Post by sangi39 » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 22:56

Thought it might be an idea to give everyone some time to relax, maybe for a few hours [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by sangi39 » Mon 16 Oct 2017, 15:12

Okay, so unlocking this thread. Just a few things to keep in mind if you plan on taking part in this any further:

1) Actually discuss the topic - "communists don't have to lie" and "communists just want to kill everyone who disagrees with them" aren't arguments about communism (with a little "c") and you just end up talking past each other. If you want to make a point about communism, make a point about communism.

2) Do not advocate violence - saying you will violently revolt against those who disagree with you, going so far as to kill for your beliefs, won't be tolerated any more. Whether you mean it to or not, this could be taken as an implicit death threat against a large number of members of the board and we'll be having none of that.

3) Listen - The point of civil discussion is the listen to what each side is saying. If you can't do that and respond calmly and thoughtfully, then take some time to think about what you actually think. If you can only respond with the same half-shouted phrases and ad hominem attacks, then walk away.



As always, just keep in mind that while someone might disagree with you, it doesn't mean either of you are wrong or either of you are right, and be willing to discuss and debate, not hurl insults, threaten and cover your ears [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by Lambuzhao » Tue 17 Oct 2017, 06:00

Political cartoons, soundbites, and memes certainly have their explanatory place,


yet, at the leastmost, some required (or refresher) reading:

Plato - Republic
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html

Engels & Marx - Communist Manifesto
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/61

The Letters of Marx and Engels
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/l ... /index.htm

Prolly missing some good stuff: any and every old-head feel free to add a resource or two.

Always refreshing to read these again for the first time~

[;)]
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Re: Communism [split]

Post by elemtilas » Wed 18 Oct 2017, 04:01

Lambuzhao wrote:Prolly missing some good stuff: any and every old-head feel free to add a resource or two.
I'd certainly add Rerum Novarum and Divini Redemptoris to this lists in re contra.
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