Flägs & vexillology!

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by Lambuzhao » Mon 26 Aug 2013, 06:12

As a longtime denizen of the Shire Commonwealth, I have to say I like the flag.
While I try to ignore the Colonial Monopoly tchotchkies in the middle, and the 3 magic mushroom/muffin thingies
Spoiler:
Yeeeees, I know their bales/sheaves :roll:
, my favorites are the two black Couchemares rampantes. I do like the dark blue field as well. Since we're a landlocked state, it reminds us that we need to go to "The Shore" periodically (e.g. Delaware, New Jersey, Maryland) to avoid complete dessication.
[:)]
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by AureusFulgens » Tue 27 Aug 2013, 02:24

Sr. Día wrote:
AureusFulgens wrote: And maybe I'm biased, but I think my home state of Maryland has a cool flag.
Image
Not gonna lie, Maryland's is one of my least favorites, I find it rather garish.
Washington's isn't much better though, although I like the green.

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To each his own. A matter of differing tastes, I suppose - I rather like a vivid color scheme.
For curiosity, what are your favorites?
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by Click » Tue 27 Aug 2013, 12:27

Decided I should make a post in this thread. My favourite flags are under the spoiler.
Spoiler:
Alaska has a cool minimalistic flag. I like how it looks original despite having stars on it.

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The old flag of Maine has an awesome color scheme.

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I like the flag of East Timor because the white star is tilted somewhat and the shades of red and yellow are spot on.

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The Red Crystal flag is simple yet distinctive, and the rotated square looks nice.

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The Clatsop flag is original in a good way.

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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by eldin raigmore » Sun 06 Oct 2013, 18:50

AureusFulgens wrote:And maybe I'm biased, but I think my home state of Maryland has a cool flag.
Spoiler:
Image
Isn't it from the coat-of-arms of the Cavendishes Calverts, the family from which Lord Baltimore came?
Edit: Not Cavendish; Calvert!
Last edited by eldin raigmore on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 22:35, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by Jacen Weyne » Mon 07 Oct 2013, 10:36

US states usually have pretty ugly flags. I do like New Mexico's flag though.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by hippopotame » Mon 28 Oct 2013, 21:15

AureusFulgens wrote: For a similar reason, India. I like the wheel in the middle too.
Image

And maybe I'm biased, but I think my home state of Maryland has a cool flag.
Image
I have to agree with you on these two. Though I might be biased too. Maryland's is just so distinctive and I love it.

I also like Kazakhstan's, which was posted earlier.
As well as Albania
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and Sri Lanka
Spoiler:
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and Hong Kong
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I absolutely love the flag of Greenland
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I also kinda like the flag of Jammu and Kashmir
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by Shemtov » Tue 29 Oct 2013, 05:11

Lambuzhao wrote:ell. Since we're a landlocked state, it reminds us that we need to go to "The Shore" periodically (e.g. Delaware, New Jersey, Maryland) to avoid complete dessication.
[:)]
Though a quick look online shows that the northwest part of the Commonwealth has a small beach.
BTW, where in PA are you from?
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by Yačay256 » Sat 23 Nov 2013, 01:06

I like the Muġal flag - Bright, elegant and imposing:

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I also like Saint Lucia's flag - it just looks cool:

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I really like the flag of the Haudenosaunee - a great symbol of what human beings are capable of through cooperation and reciprocal help:

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Finally, the flag of the Métis - Symbolic of a union of two peoples to form a new and great fusion culture:

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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by Xing » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 20:39

The North American Vexillological Association has published these "five principle of flag design":
Keep It Simple: the flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.

Use Meaningful Symbolism: the flag’s images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes.

Use 2–3 Basic Colors: that is, limit of the number of colors on the flag to three, which contrast well and come from the standard color set.

No Lettering or Seals: never use writing of any kind or an organization’s seal.

Be Distinctive or Be Related: avoid duplicating other flags, but use similarities to show connections.
What do you think about them? As for the symbolism, it might be a good principle when designing new flags. But one should be aware that in the real world, one can find cases where certain colours or images have been used for such a long time, that no one really knows what they symbolise. (Perhaps they were originally chosen just because someone liked 'em, or just wanted something that was easily recognisable.)

I can accept letters or seals on flags, at least if they are not too complex.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 28 Jan 2015, 23:28

Keep It Simple: the flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.
Not specific enough to be a good rule/principle/guideline, in my opinion. How simple, exactly, is "so simple that a child can draw it from memory"?

Although I agree that complicated designs don't look good on flags… but again, how complicated is too complicated?
Use Meaningful Symbolism: the flag’s images, colors, or patterns should relate to what it symbolizes.
Xing wrote:As for the symbolism, it might be a good principle when designing new flags. But one should be aware that in the real world, one can find cases where certain colours or images have been used for such a long time, that no one really knows what they symbolise. (Perhaps they were originally chosen just because someone liked 'em, or just wanted something that was easily recognisable.)
The colors and such on many real-world flags that seem almost random today most likely did have easily identifiable meanings at one point… I doubt that many of them were designed with only aesthetics in mind. I'd say a combination of aesthetics and symbolism is needed for flag design, generally.
Use 2–3 Basic Colors: that is, limit of the number of colors on the flag to three, which contrast well and come from the standard color set.
I'd generally agree with this, but there are some flags that can still look good with double this number of colors or more, in my opinion. I think it has a lot to do with the ratios of one color to another and the positioning of the colors.
No Lettering or Seals: never use writing of any kind or an organization’s seal.
Xing wrote:I can accept letters or seals on flags, at least if they are not too complex.
I think it depends on the design of the seal - the more abstract/artistic it is, the more likely it is to look good on a flag. The same goes with writing, in my opinion - it's all about how you stylize it. Calligraphy would look better than print, and so on. Arabic calligraphy, in particular, can look good on a flag.

All just my opinions. The way writing and seals look on flags is very circumstantial and depends on a lot of other factors.
Be Distinctive or Be Related: avoid duplicating other flags, but use similarities to show connections.
I probably agree with this one the most. It's important for flags that visually show cultural/historical/etc. connections between states/countries/etc. to still maintain their individuality by making the flag easy to identify as different from the related flags, but still related to them, likely by adding or subtracting a key element or two.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by GrandPiano » Thu 29 Jan 2015, 03:46

I think the Isle of Man flag is pretty neat:

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Also, this thread has made me realize that despite living in the US, the only US state flag I really know is the one of my own state (Ohio).
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by shimobaatar » Thu 29 Jan 2015, 05:41

The Manx flag is pretty unique, and I'd say I like it, even though it creeped me out when I first saw it a while ago. I wonder why the design is like that? What's up with the legs?
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by eldin raigmore » Thu 29 Jan 2015, 21:07

shimobaatar wrote:I wonder why the design is like that? What's up with the legs?
The triskelion represents the sun moving through the sky in three steps; morning, midday, and evening.
Why it's on the Manx flag, I don't know.

But I hope that helps. We know what the cross represents, but we don't know why the various flags that have a cross on them do -- or, at least I don't, at least not for every such flag.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by shimobaatar » Thu 29 Jan 2015, 21:34

eldin raigmore wrote:The triskelion represents the sun moving through the sky in three steps; morning, midday, and evening.
Wow, that's pretty cool! Thanks!
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by DrGeoffStandish » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 01:02

Never thought about posting my almost two years old flag designs for the Republic of Jamtland (short: the Republic) in this thread. Anyway, here they are:
      • Image

        Image
Pardon the amateurish execution but I think you get the idea. The upper flag is the one I prefer and currently use it in my avatar. Both flags are variations of the same basic flag design principles I apply in this context. They are (in order of importance):
      • (1) The flag should not be of the Nordic cross type since the Republic predates Scandinavian christianization; indeed, the Republic was founded in the mid 700's.

        (2) The colours should be red, white and blue since they are the West Norse flag colours and the Republic was founded by West Norse people coming from Sparabú.

        (3) There should be eight identical symbols in the flag representing each of the eight provinces of the Republic (the four ancient fjorðinge surrounding the central lake, Frøysborg metro area in the centre, Líð in the north, Herdał in the south, and Ravúnd in the east).
The flags above suffice, obviously. For the sake of completeness I should mention that there is a competing flag - created in the early 1980's - that has gained "some" (well, it's semi-official) recognition. Note that it also lacks the Nordic cross design, this seems to be a general theme among the flag designs proposed for the Republic, see e.g. this one with the same colours as the semi-official one.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by eldin raigmore » Sat 07 Feb 2015, 05:06

DrGeoffStandish wrote:Never thought about posting my almost two years old flag designs for the Republic of Jamtland (short: the Republic) in this thread. Anyway, here they are:

Pardon the amateurish execution but I think you get the idea. The upper flag is the one I prefer and currently use it in my avatar. Both flags are variations of the same basic flag design principles I apply in this context. They are (in order of importance):
(1) The flag should not be of the Nordic cross type since the Republic predates Scandinavian christianization; indeed, the Republic was founded in the mid 700's.
(2) The colours should be red, white and blue since they are the West Norse flag colours and the Republic was founded by West Norse people coming from Sparabú.
(3) There should be eight identical symbols in the flag representing each of the eight provinces of the Republic (the four ancient fjorðinge surrounding the central lake, Frøysborg metro area in the centre, Líð in the north, Herdał in the south, and Ravúnd in the east).[/list][/list][/list]
The flags above suffice, obviously. For the sake of completeness I should mention that there is a competing flag - created in the early 1980's - that has gained "some" (well, it's semi-official) recognition. Note that it also lacks the Nordic cross design, this seems to be a general theme among the flag designs proposed for the Republic, see e.g. this one with the same colours as the semi-official one.
The top one reminds me too much of the USA flag; the bottom one reminds me too much of the "Southern Cross" Confederate battle flag.
Why are you using pentacles/pentagrams/five-pointed mullets?
If they're meant to represent the rowels on spurs, more than five points would probably be good. But in the 700s did Scans even use spurs with rowels?
Why not have symbols placed on the flag in positions representing the map locations of the eight provinces?
Why not have the blue in the center like the lake?
For instance, you could have eight different eagles around a patch of blue. They could be identical in design (or not). You might want one of the eagles (or whatever) in the very center for Frøysborg -- or not (you've said that both the lake and Frøysborg are central). I don't know what Frøys means (the Vanir god Frey's castle?), maybe you want the symbol or its color to reflect that. You might use red for the four ancient provinces and white for the four newer ones, or vice-versa, or something else.
Did pre-Christian Scands of the 8th century orient their maps with north to the top?
If so, one possible design might be:
(assuming the hoist is to the left and the fly is to the right)

Code: Select all

A red field, with a largish thickish white ring in the middle of it, with a blue disk in the middle of that;
a white eagle on the blue disk;
on the white ring, three red eagles; one above the blue disk, another red eagle to the right/ (or to the fly) of the blue disk, and a third red eagle below the blue disk;
and surrounding the white ring three white eagles on the red field.

Would you want those four white eagles to be placed one on the upper hoist, one on the upper fly, one on the lower hoist, and one on the lower fly? Or where?
The eagles should look "late Dark Ages" or "just before the early High Middle Ages".

Like I said, you might want to use something else besides eagles; they're very Roman, though that doesn't mean they aren't also Scandinavian.
For instance, why not use Thor's hammer Mjolnir? That was popular before the Cross came into the region, wasn't it? In fact, didn't the popularity of the Thor cult speed the spread of the Christ cult?

And you might not want to use the same thing for all eight charges. Like, for Freysburg (sorry, can't type it right), you might want a ship, or a boar, or an antler. (Real-life Ostersund's coat-of-arms has an elk's head on it, with antlers; white on blue. OTOH look at Krokom's; a red kind of cave-art line-drawing or stick-figure of some kind of deer-like animal, over two wavy blue lines probably representing rivers, all on a white shield. Jamtland's has an elk, an eagle, and a dog (or is that a wolf?); it also has what look like hammer and tongs. That's five of your eight symbols. But the colors include black and gold, as well as red and white and blue. And I don't know whether that style of tongs were used in the 8th century Scandinavia, or whether your confolks would have liked tongs on their flag.)

OTOH if you stick with mullets I think you should give them 7 or 8 points. (6 points would look too Shield-of-Solomon-esque IMO. 8 points might look very Alhambra-esque, but even if so that might not be a detriment.) That's just my opinion; YMMV.
Or you could use sun-signs like fylfots or swastikas or triskelions.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by DrGeoffStandish » Sun 08 Feb 2015, 20:56

eldin raigmore wrote:The top one reminds me too much of the USA flag; the bottom one reminds me too much of the "Southern Cross" Confederate battle flag.
Well, it's actually somewhat intentional. America is - to my knowledge - the only truly liberal secular nation in the world and it has its roots in the Enlightenment of the 18th century. So it's a kind of tribute the the greatest nation in the world. (Sorry though that your nation's become hijacked by European religious extremists, you should've kept my ancestors brothers and sisters out back then.)
eldin raigmore wrote:Why are you using pentacles/pentagrams/five-pointed mullets?
They're the simplest kind of non-trivial geometrical figures.
eldin raigmore wrote:If they're meant to represent the rowels on spurs, more than five points would probably be good. But in the 700s did Scans even use spurs with rowels?
I'm not sure what the 700's have to do with anything, that's just the time period when my area was colonized according to the Icelandic sagas and archeology. I'm not trying to create an 8th century connation's flag here. The nation is an existing one (albeit a mere county of Sweden at the moment) and the flag is supposed to be a 21th century one. Sorry for not pointing taht out.
eldin raigmore wrote:Why not have symbols placed on the flag in positions representing the map locations of the eight provinces?
Had that idea when creating this flag (maybe I should've shown it too but it's too sketchy and only includes "Frøysborg" and the four core provinces and not the threeperipheral ones):
      • Image
The centre star is indeed Frøysborg D.K. (District of Ketill; Ketill was the first Norse settler of the Republic) which is not counted as a proper province but is the capital district.
eldin raigmore wrote:Why not have the blue in the center like the lake?
And if the Republic expands? Other areas in Sweden and Norway may want to join, I'm open for it. Then the central lake wouldn't be so central or so significant anymore in itself. I don't like being too concrete either, a flag should only contain abstract symbols and should be flexible for modifications in my opinion.
eldin raigmore wrote:For instance, you could have eight different eagles around a patch of blue. They could be identical in design (or not). You might want one of the eagles (or whatever) in the very center for Frøysborg -- or not (you've said that both the lake and Frøysborg are central).
If you refer to the bird in the linked flag (not my proposition but by someone on Reddit) it's a raven. The organized viking troops (read: the Danish Viking age soldiers) were apparently supposed to have had a Raven Banner and that stylized raven seems widely used in the context (I don't know whether it's authentic or modern). The Republic predates the Viking period, though, and was founded on libertarian, democratic and secular ideas (according to the Icelandic sagas).
eldin raigmore wrote:I don't know what Frøys means (the Vanir god Frey's castle?), maybe you want the symbol or its color to reflect that.
Frøy is the Jamtish word for Freyr. Sure, it's a Norse god but the lake used to be called Frøyssjóʀ 'Frey's Lake' and the island on which the pre-Swedish era central settlement was located is called Frøysøy 'Frey's Island'. It's only natural to rename the Swedish city 'Östersund' to the Jamtish Frøysborg 'Frey's City'. Sure, one could call it Keslesborg 'Ketill's City' too in memory of the first Norse settler; it was pretty close that 'Östersund', founded by Swedish king Gustav III in 1786, was called "Gustavstad".
eldin raigmore wrote:You might use red for the four ancient provinces and white for the four newer ones, or vice-versa, or something else.
I want to be democratic and don't point out certain districts.
eldin raigmore wrote:Did pre-Christian Scands of the 8th century orient their maps with north to the top?
It's a 21th century flag. But to answer your question, no. That's why old place names with compass directions ("south" etc.) don't follow the principles of our modern compasses.
eldin raigmore wrote:If so, one possible design might be:
(assuming the hoist is to the left and the fly is to the right)

Code: Select all

A red field, with a largish thickish white ring in the middle of it, with a blue disk in the middle of that;
a white eagle on the blue disk;
on the white ring, three red eagles; one above the blue disk, another red eagle to the right/ (or to the fly) of the blue disk, and a third red eagle below the blue disk;
and surrounding the white ring three white eagles on the red field.

Would you want those four white eagles to be placed one on the upper hoist, one on the upper fly, one on the lower hoist, and one on the lower fly? Or where?
The eagles should look "late Dark Ages" or "just before the early High Middle Ages".
Thanks but no thanks. Maybe someone else could use your flag proposal for a connation, though.
eldin raigmore wrote:Like I said, you might want to use something else besides eagles; they're very Roman, though that doesn't mean they aren't also Scandinavian.
As said, it's a raven and that's at least a very important creature in Norse mythology.
eldin raigmore wrote:For instance, why not use Thor's hammer Mjolnir? That was popular before the Cross came into the region, wasn't it? In fact, didn't the popularity of the Thor cult speed the spread of the Christ cult?
Indeed, but Freyr was the main god in the area and his animal symbol was the boar. Assuming one would like to make a flag for the newly founded 8th century republic, but that's not what we're doing here.
eldin raigmore wrote:And you might not want to use the same thing for all eight charges. Like, for Freysburg (sorry, can't type it right), you might want a ship, or a boar, or an antler. (Real-life Ostersund's coat-of-arms has an elk's head on it, with antlers; white on blue. OTOH look at Krokom's; a red kind of cave-art line-drawing or stick-figure of some kind of deer-like animal, over two wavy blue lines probably representing rivers, all on a white shield. Jamtland's has an elk, an eagle, and a dog (or is that a wolf?);
It's the local dog breed, a variety of the Norwegian elkhound. The significance of the dog breed can be seen, e.g., here. Yes, we indeed have more guns per capita than all the rest of Europe and about half of the American states. (Yes, I have checked the statistics. We hunt with our rifles, though, and don't use them for protection or just to show off.)
eldin raigmore wrote:it also has what look like hammer and tongs.
Those belong to Härjedalen province. But yeah, Herdał is part of the Republic though a later appendix.
eldin raigmore wrote:That's five of your eight symbols. But the colors include black and gold, as well as red and white and blue. And I don't know whether that style of tongs were used in the 8th century Scandinavia, or whether your confolks would have liked tongs on their flag.)
This concerns real people of skull and bones, not confolks.
eldin raigmore wrote:OTOH if you stick with mullets I think you should give them 7 or 8 points. (6 points would look too Shield-of-Solomon-esque IMO. 8 points might look very Alhambra-esque, but even if so that might not be a detriment.) That's just my opinion; YMMV.
I like to keep it simple, five points are enough (four are too few, though. As Einstein said, make it as simple as possible but not simpler than that.)
eldin raigmore wrote:Or you could use sun-signs like fylfots or swastikas or triskelions.
Well, the Isle of Man flag triskelion is connected to the Skanke ("shanks") family, one of the two noble families "originating" from the Republic, read more about it e.g. here. Just a fun detail, but the Republic was founded in order to avoid nobilities' power over people and letting a noble family's heraldry be used in the Republic flag contradicts what the Republic should stand for.
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 09 Feb 2015, 04:06

DrGeoffStandish wrote:… (lots of neat stuff I probably don't need to repeat) ...
That all makes sense and explains everything I questioned, including much I didn't know. Thanks.


Besides, all my "concerns" (if they merit that word) are rendered moot by this:
DrGeoffStandish wrote:
      • Image
I really like that flag!
If you start with that, but you still want eight charges on it, what other charges would you use (more mullets, maybe?) and how many of them (three?)? And where would they go?
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by Xing » Sun 29 Mar 2015, 15:42

masako wrote:
Aszev wrote:
sano wrote:Being a fan of simplicity and symmetry I have always favored the flag of Libya 1977-2011:

Image
The problem with that flag is that it's simple to the point of not being distinctive anymore.
I would say its simplicity embodies its distinctiveness.
That actually makes some kind of sense... I almost feel it's little bit sad that the world lost its only one-coloured national flag.

The Swedish Archipelago fleet used to have single-coloured blue ensign:

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I decided to create a unicoloured Flag of the Leopard (FotL):

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The yellow colour symbolises leopardhood, being derived from the base colour of the leopards fur. It can also represent the savanna, for leopards living in those areas. There is also an alternative, dark blue FotL:

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The dark blue symbolises the night sky, and the nocturnal nature of leopards. In fact, any combination of the two colours can serve as a FotL:

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Flägs & vexillology!

Post by clawgrip » Sun 05 Apr 2015, 05:29

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