Daoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

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Daoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Thakowsaizmu » Tue 28 Aug 2012, 18:48

Xing wrote:
broadwaytower wrote:
Edit: Buddhism isn't just about being simple, it isn't about that at all.
What is it about then? Simplicity (ajjavatā or asaṭha) is the quality of being uncomplicated, direct and easy to do or understand. It is the opposite of complexity, convolution, calculation and pretence.
I thought it was Taoism that was about simplicity. Could anyone explain the difference between the two religions then?
Actually, when Buddhism first came to China it was believed to be a sect of Daoism.

Daoism is native to China, formalized/founded by Laozi, a philosopher from the Warring States period of China, who lived somewhere between fifty and one hundred years before Confucius. Daoism stresses a return to nature and the natural and acknowledges a Greater Being that is referred to as the Dao, or the Way, because Laozi didn't know what else to call it. It is older than the gods and where all things come from and to which all things return. The Dao De Jing is 81 chapters, many of which are very short. Although religious Daoism has rituals and deities and a myriad other things, philosophical Daoism is concerned only with contemplation of the Dao and a return to the natural. That is to say, living in a simple and relatively stress free way.

Buddhism was founded in what is present day Nepal by Shakyamuni, or Siddhartha Gautama. So it is told, Siddhartha Gautama was a prince of the Shakya clan (hence Shakyamuni, or prince of the Shakya). There were (or weren't, depending on the branch) portents that foretold that Siddhartha Gautama was to become a wandering monk or a great warrior, his father liked the sound of great warrior and made as much of an attempt to keep him in the palace and sated of all curiosities as best he could. But Siddhartha Gautama escaped the palace one night and saw suffering, death and met a monk. Siddhartha gave up his princedom and became a wandering monk as well, and eventually gained Enlightenment. He discovered that there either were no Vedic gods, or that the Vedic gods were merely another form of existence (depending on who you ask) and that the real Truth was Nirvana and breaking the cycle of death/rebirth with Enlightenment and eventually merging with Nirvana.

Superficially and quickly it is easy to see why when Buddhism first entered China in about 67A.D. the people thought it was a form of Daosim. But in some places the two differ greatly. Daoism, in its purest form, does not have a concept like Karma, nor the death/rebirth cycle that Buddhism has. Both have ethical codes, Buddhism's concerned with the accrueage of good Karma and ridding oneself of bad Karma, whereas Daoism really doesn't have any kind of consequence if one acts amorally. Daoism pretty much just says you should be good because that's what nature wants. No Daoist hell exists, though there are some 1,000 hells in Buddhism (but you only stay in hell for as long as you need to to cleanse bad karma). Buddhism and Daoism both have a concept of simplicity and natural order.

I hope something in that mad rambling helped.

Modicone: Split from the Papisa-samama thread.
Last edited by Thakowsaizmu on Wed 29 Aug 2012, 18:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by broadwaytower » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 10:16

That's not an answer, that's a history lesson plagiarised from elsewhere on the net.
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by Xing » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 14:03

broadwaytower wrote:That's not an answer, that's a history lesson plagarised from elsewhere on the net.
Why would it be plagiarised? And wherefrom?
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by thaen » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 16:38

broadwaytower wrote:That's not an answer, that's a history lesson plagarised from elsewhere on the net.
It was more validating their difference than telling all the aspects of their differences, although she did quite detail some of them in the fourth paragraph.
Xing wrote:<span class="gti-match gti-match-paragraph gti-match-paragraph-2">
broadwaytower wrote:That's not an answer, that's a history lesson plagarised from elsewhere on the net.
</span>

Why would it be plagiarised? And wherefrom?
How do you know Thakow isn't some sort of Buddhist/Daoist/Taoist specialist, or something?
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by broadwaytower » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 16:56

Er... maybe from one of the hundreds of thousand websites about Buddhism, do you think?
Edit: It was more validating their difference than telling all the aspects of their differences,
What does that mean?
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Re: Taoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by ol bofosh » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 17:26

I'm not a Buddhist, nor am I a Taoist. Although I do have personal experience of both (what I describe isn't a Taoist or Buddhist standpoint but my own).

The basic aim of Taoism is harmony with nature.

The basic aim of Buddhism is liberation from suffering through spiritual practice.

These are, IMO, the "essence" of these that I have discovered through my own explorations. In a sense, Taoism is more "worldly" than Buddhishm. I swing more towards Taoism than Buddhism in this sense, though both have been philosophically valuable for me.
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by thaen » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 18:34

broadwaytower wrote:Er... maybe from one of the hundreds of thousand websites about Buddhism, do you think?
Edit: It was more validating their difference than telling all the aspects of their differences,
What does that mean?
Meaning that she was showing that there is a difference between the two, and not focusing so much on the particular differences.

So you're saying that she (or anyone, for that matter) is incapable of telling the differences of Buddhism, Taoism, Daoism, or other languages without plagiarizing someone? If you asked me to define the word "the" in the English language, and I replied "a definite article," would you accuse me of plagiarizing the countless websites that tell you what the word "the" means?
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Re: Taoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Thakowsaizmu » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 18:47

I've actually studied Indian and East Asian religions quite a bit. 400 level college courses and otherwise. I am sorry you feel the need to attack my credentials, broadwaytower. Oh, and by the way, if you are going to accuse someone of plagiarism, at least spell plagiarized correctly.
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by Xing » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 18:53

broadwaytower wrote:Er... maybe from one of the hundreds of thousand websites about Buddhism, do you think?
I tried to search for it, but could not find anything.

A have a rough grasp of the difference between Taoism, Buddhism and various other Eastern religions/philosophies. My intention was more to emphasise the very shallow understanding many Westerners seem to have of Eastern thought. To say that Buddhism/Taoism (or whatever -ism we are talking about) is about "simplicity" and "naturalness", is a bit like saying that Christianity is about "being nice".
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Re: Taoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by thaen » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 20:44

Thakowsaizmu wrote:I've actually studied Indian and East Asian religions quite a bit. 400 level college courses and otherwise. I am sorry you feel the need to attack my credentials, broadwaytower. Oh, and by the way, if you are going to accuse someone of plagiarism, at least spell plagiarized correctly.
I thought you had said something of it in the spam thread.
Xing wrote:
broadwaytower wrote:Er... maybe from one of the hundreds of thousand websites about Buddhism, do you think?
...Christianity is about "being nice".
[xD]
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Re: Taoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Thakowsaizmu » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 20:46

thaen wrote: I thought you had said something of it in the spam thread.
Probably.
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by Xonen » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 22:09

broadwaytower wrote:Er... maybe from one of the hundreds of thousand websites about Buddhism, do you think?
Which one? Certainly you have actual knowledge of this, since you're feeling bold enough to make such a serious accusation?
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Re: Papisa-samama

Post by thaen » Wed 29 Aug 2012, 22:11

Xonen wrote:
broadwaytower wrote:Er... maybe from one of the hundreds of thousand websites about Buddhism, do you think?
Which one? Certainly you have actual knowledge of this, since you're feeling bold enough to make such a serious accusation?
[+1]
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Re: Taoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Torco » Thu 30 Aug 2012, 19:56

ol bofosh wrote:I'm not a Buddhist, nor am I a Taoist. Although I do have personal experience of both (what I describe isn't a Taoist or Buddhist standpoint but my own).

The basic aim of Taoism is harmony with nature.

The basic aim of Buddhism is liberation from suffering through spiritual practice.

These are, IMO, the "essence" of these that I have discovered through my own explorations. In a sense, Taoism is more "worldly" than Buddhishm. I swing more towards Taoism than Buddhism in this sense, though both have been philosophically valuable for me.
This.

well, not exactly, Taoism is about harmony with the Dao, which is kinda like nature but not quite. Still, before this question is to be tackled seriously, IF this question is to be tackled seriously, what the peanuts does anyone mean by simplicity [in living, that is]. having few material things? check, buddhism is all over that. not engaging in complicated and unnecesary justifications and rituals for every action? nah, buddhism is not all about that one.
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Re: Daoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Valosken » Thu 30 Aug 2012, 20:47

The Tao is sometimes thought to just be the underlying oneness of everything, which you're supposed to realize in buddhism. They are very similar. They word the same goal differently, and go about it differently.
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Re: Daoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Thakowsaizmu » Thu 30 Aug 2012, 20:57

Valosken wrote:The Tao is sometimes thought to just be the underlying oneness of everything, which you're supposed to realize in buddhism. They are very similar. They word the same goal differently, and go about it differently.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are the same thing.
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Re: Taoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Thakowsaizmu » Thu 30 Aug 2012, 20:59

ol bofosh wrote:Taoism is more "worldly" than Buddhishm.
Can you explain to me what you mean? Because I don't understand this. Of the two, Buddhism is a missionary Religion that is concerned with helping everyone to eventually attain Nirvana. Daoism isn't.
Torco wrote:not engaging in complicated and unnecesary justifications and rituals for every action? nah, buddhism is not all about that one.
That is false. The amount of ritual is directly related to the type of Buddhism one follows.
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Re: Taoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Torco » Thu 30 Aug 2012, 22:02

Thakowsaizmu wrote:
Torco wrote:not engaging in complicated and unnecesary justifications and rituals for every action? nah, buddhism is not all about that one.
That is false. The amount of ritual is directly related to the type of Buddhism one follows.
buddhism is not all about that one
is different from
buddhism is about the opposite of that one
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Re: Daoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Thakowsaizmu » Thu 30 Aug 2012, 22:06

Fascinating, Torco. Do go on.
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Re: Daoism, Buddhism and Simplicity [Split Thread]

Post by Torco » Thu 30 Aug 2012, 23:23

I mean buddhism is orthogonal to ritualism, since there's more ritualistic buddhism and less ritualistic buddhism, not being a huge bias in any direction. thus, its true to say that not all buddhism is into non-ritualism, just some buddhism is into non-ritualism, and some other buddhism is into yes-ritualism. ultimately, I'm saying you might have misunderstood the utterance.
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