Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

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Isfendil
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Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Isfendil » Sat 24 Mar 2018, 07:49

Basically the title, we know that associating blood with inheritance and genetics is arbitrary (though not necessarily wrong) and that you have stuff like Korean Sacred Bone as an alternative. What are some IRL equivalents to "sang réal", so to speak? And what are the nuances of that interpretation?
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Scytheria
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Scytheria » Sat 24 Mar 2018, 11:17

I do remember reading that the sacrificial victims of the Aztecs (or maybe Mayans... not sure which) were all considered to be related, even if they weren't and that they used special titles to refer to one another before their 'big moment'. So the 'blood' in this case was the shared experience of being sacrificed.

Brother from another mother? Where skin colour rather than direct kinship is the 'blood'?

In product design, version numbers?

In genetic algorithms, generations? No blood involved, just evolving code.

Not strictly IRL, but vampiric bloodlines? I guess they procreate via biting, so might have a kind of named kinship there. That's another 'blood', but of a difference disposition.
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 24 Mar 2018, 19:47

Sort of mammal-chauvinist (or mammary-chauvinist?) but 'sucklemates'? Thinking of both Romulus & Remus & whatever whelpkins they had, and also Mowgli & Grey Brother and all the others.

Sucklage and foster-sucklage could be an alternative to "blood" relation.


------------------------------------------
Another possibility could be saliva. I thought of how I have heard alcoholic chicha was originally made by chewing the sprouted corn, and allowing the saliva of the chewers to act as a 'fermentation starter'.

Apparently, a similar process was used in early Japan to make sake.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/what-pop-cultur ... 1823770754

¿ Cudmates? ¿Chewmates? Not impossible~

:wat:
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Scytheria » Sun 25 Mar 2018, 05:05

The clerical use of father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter, wife, etc. where the ‘blood’ is shared faith.

Sometimes political too- comrade, brother, sister - when an affiliation is the shared ‘blood’
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Isfendil » Sun 25 Mar 2018, 17:07

Scytheria wrote:
Sun 25 Mar 2018, 05:05
The clerical use of father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter, wife, etc. where the ‘blood’ is shared faith.

Sometimes political too- comrade, brother, sister - when an affiliation is the shared ‘blood’
I meant inheritance and genetics, I know what basic kinship relations are.
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Scytheria » Sun 25 Mar 2018, 23:28

Isfendil wrote:
Sun 25 Mar 2018, 17:07
I meant inheritance and genetics, I know what basic kinship relations are.
Well, if you're conworlding as well as conlanging, any of the examples I gave could form the foundation of an inheritance system. Even things like genetic algorithms (if your conworld consists of AI) where memory/processing power is inherited from a 'parent' by a superior 'child'. There's plenty of real world evidence that wealth, titles, etc. have passed down clerical relationships. Don't new monks, for example, simply 'inherit' the monastery from the old monks? There may be no word for that, but maybe there could be. Maybe take a look at communism-cults. I'm pretty sure they have different ways of distributing the wealth of those who have passed on. Similarly, there are plenty of funds for minority racial/religious groups that only get 'inherited' by members of that 'family', and (writing from China) there is most certainly a kind of political-nepotism thing going on in which elder CCP cadres 'bequeath' their titles and power to younger proteges.

Alternatively (although not attested in the RL, but hypothesised) there are meritocratic systems where the young 'inherit' from the dead based not on kinship or need, but on how much they have achieved or have the potential to achieve.
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Isfendil » Mon 26 Mar 2018, 00:15

Scytheria wrote:
Sun 25 Mar 2018, 23:28
Isfendil wrote:
Sun 25 Mar 2018, 17:07
I meant inheritance and genetics, I know what basic kinship relations are.
Well, if you're conworlding as well as conlanging, any of the examples I gave could form the foundation of an inheritance system. Even things like genetic algorithms (if your conworld consists of AI) where memory/processing power is inherited from a 'parent' by a superior 'child'. There's plenty of real world evidence that wealth, titles, etc. have passed down clerical relationships. Don't new monks, for example, simply 'inherit' the monastery from the old monks? There may be no word for that, but maybe there could be. Maybe take a look at communism-cults. I'm pretty sure they have different ways of distributing the wealth of those who have passed on. Similarly, there are plenty of funds for minority racial/religious groups that only get 'inherited' by members of that 'family', and (writing from China) there is most certainly a kind of political-nepotism thing going on in which elder CCP cadres 'bequeath' their titles and power to younger proteges.

Alternatively (although not attested in the RL, but hypothesised) there are meritocratic systems where the young 'inherit' from the dead based not on kinship or need, but on how much they have achieved or have the potential to achieve.
I actually never thought of it that way (re: the monastic tradition, which actually puts something I learned recently about monastic tradition in Ethiopia and Mainland Southeast Asia into a completely new light), thank you very much!
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Isfendil » Mon 26 Mar 2018, 00:17

Lambuzhao wrote:
Sat 24 Mar 2018, 19:47
Sort of mammal-chauvinist (or mammary-chauvinist?) but 'sucklemates'? Thinking of both Romulus & Remus & whatever whelpkins they had, and also Mowgli & Grey Brother and all the others.

Sucklage and foster-sucklage could be an alternative to "blood" relation.


------------------------------------------
Another possibility could be saliva. I thought of how I have heard alcoholic chicha was originally made by chewing the sprouted corn, and allowing the saliva of the chewers to act as a 'fermentation starter'.

Apparently, a similar process was used in early Japan to make sake.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/what-pop-cultur ... 1823770754

¿ Cudmates? ¿Chewmates? Not impossible~

:wat:
Seeing as there is milk siblingry in my own family, I'm surprised I did not think of that sooner. As for saliva, that also raises interesting possibilities, thank you Lambuzhao.
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 11 Apr 2018, 18:26

I just like this thread and want to keep up with it. I thought of some things to say but then saw they’d already been said.
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Creyeditor » Wed 11 Apr 2018, 19:49

'Clan' relation are often 'fictional' blood relations. If you belong to the same clan, you assume that you are descended from the same person at some point in the past, even if nobody alive met him and there are no written records of that time. These relations can also be constructed, if people see the need for a new clan. This has been noted in certain cases of ethnogenesis. So, I would call this a 'fictional' blood relationship.
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by Gerk » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 17:47

Thread reminds me of a concept that was in the book Diamond Age.
Though it was more on the social level, than the family level, it could be made stronger and more personal. IN that book society was broken not into countries or states, but into philes(spelling?), which were groups that shared common points of world view.

Members of a phile were close and were a bit xenophobic.

I could definitely see similar structures working in smaller groups, where people were bonded by common worldviews, people in the same echo chamber of group think as it were.
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by holbuzvala » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 18:36

In the Islamic Empire, non-Arabs became 'clients' (mawālī) of tribes when they converted to Islam, even though they were Persians etc. who had no blood relations with the tribes, and in doing so gained the protection of the tribe, but were also obliged to help it out when attacked (politically or otherwise).
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Re: Alternatives to "Blood" relation?

Post by eldin raigmore » Tue 17 Apr 2018, 18:48

Gerk wrote:
Tue 17 Apr 2018, 17:47
Thread reminds me of a concept that was in the book Diamond Age.
Though it was more on the social level, than the family level, it could be made stronger and more personal. IN that book society was broken not into countries or states, but into philes(spelling?), which were groups that shared common points of world view.

Members of a phile were close and were a bit xenophobic.

I could definitely see similar structures working in smaller groups, where people were bonded by common worldviews, people in the same echo chamber of group think as it were.
Similar to the “Hives” in Ada Palmer’s “Terra Ignota” novels.
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