Welcome to my conlang

If you're new to these arts, this is the place to ask "stupid" questions and get directions!
User avatar
OTʜᴇB
roman
roman
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 10:59
Location: SW England

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by OTʜᴇB » Fri 09 Dec 2016, 17:23

You forgot a couple of "="s for your images, but this is looking really good.

The fox sentence you showed us, is that with some grammar and vocab? I'd love to see an explanation of how that sentence is formed and how you made the words for it.
:con: : Current Project

BTW I use Arch
User avatar
Taurenzine
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2016, 16:29

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Sat 10 Dec 2016, 19:15

OTʜᴇB wrote:You forgot a couple of "="s for your images, but this is looking really good.

The fox sentence you showed us, is that with some grammar and vocab? I'd love to see an explanation of how that sentence is formed and how you made the words for it.
So yeah, the sentance for 'The fox jumps' would be /gɛm kɛkɾana/ where /gɛm/ is fox and /kɛkɾana/ means jumps. The root word for jump is /kɾan/, the infinitive word is /kɾanso/, the prefix for present tense is/kɛ/, and the suffix for simple tense is /a/ or /na/. so the word /kɛkɾana/ is more split up like /kɛ-kɾan-a/ meaning Jumps. if I wanted to say 'The fox is Jumping', where Im using the present progressing instead of present simple, I would use the same prefix but a different suffix, /ɛ/ or /nɛ/, making it /gɛm kɛkɾanɛ/. if I wanted to say the fox was jumping, I would use the past prefix and the progressive suffix, making it /gɛm θukɾanɛ/. another example, /gɛm pɑkɾanɛ/, where /pɑ/ is the future tense.

But I have an issue.... watch this video and then continue reading: https://youtu.be/ItZ1naCdm4c

I feel like if I'm making a naturalistic language its far FAR too logical to have all of these suffixes and prefixes right from the get-go. I need to evolve it from something less complicated if I want it to be even kinda like what I've been working on. so I thing for a more ancient version of my language, I'm going to get rid of suffixes and just add words that mean 'past', 'present' and 'future' rather than making them suffixes, and I'm going to make a words for the basic simple one, maybe a word for 'doing' and a word for 'just did' or something like that. and I'll stick to the root word to put in between both of them.
User avatar
Taurenzine
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2016, 16:29

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 18:58

So I've Decided my language is going to be Subject Object Verb (SOV), Noun Adjective Determiner (NAD), and Verb Adverb (VA). So there could be a sentence like, 'Fox quick brown Dog lazy jumps' Which means 'The quick brown fox jumps the lazy dog' and I don't really fully understand prepositions yet so I left out the word 'over'. I also don't really know if what I'm doing or saying right now makes any sense at all so I'm just going to leave that up to you guys to tell me if what I'm doing makes any sense or not...
User avatar
OTʜᴇB
roman
roman
Posts: 960
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 10:59
Location: SW England

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by OTʜᴇB » Fri 16 Dec 2016, 19:19

Taurenzine wrote:So I've Decided my language is going to be Subject Object Verb (SOV), Noun Adjective Determiner (NAD), and Verb Adverb (VA). So there could be a sentence like, 'Fox quick brown Dog lazy jumps' Which means 'The quick brown fox jumps the lazy dog' and I don't really fully understand prepositions yet so I left out the word 'over'. I also don't really know if what I'm doing or saying right now makes any sense at all so I'm just going to leave that up to you guys to tell me if what I'm doing makes any sense or not...
It makes perfect sense. Adpositions are normally either prepositions or post-positions (coming before or after the object respectively) - but there are more unusual arrangements you might want to look into.

Preposition version with your current word order:
Fox quick brown the -- over Dog lazy -- jumps.
Post-position version:
Fox quick brown the -- Dog lazy over -- jumps.

Personally, I prefer the preposition option, but I'd be interested to see what you could do with say a verb oriented adposition like such:
Fox quick brown the -- Dog lazy -- jumps over.
Or
Fox quick brown the -- Dog lazy -- over jumps.

But you have literally 11 options to choose from - it's a matter of experimentation.
:con: : Current Project

BTW I use Arch
User avatar
Taurenzine
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2016, 16:29

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Sat 17 Dec 2016, 05:16

OTʜᴇB wrote:
Taurenzine wrote:So I've Decided my language is going to be Subject Object Verb (SOV), Noun Adjective Determiner (NAD), and Verb Adverb (VA). So there could be a sentence like, 'Fox quick brown Dog lazy jumps' Which means 'The quick brown fox jumps the lazy dog' and I don't really fully understand prepositions yet so I left out the word 'over'. I also don't really know if what I'm doing or saying right now makes any sense at all so I'm just going to leave that up to you guys to tell me if what I'm doing makes any sense or not...
It makes perfect sense. Adpositions are normally either prepositions or post-positions (coming before or after the object respectively) - but there are more unusual arrangements you might want to look into.

Preposition version with your current word order:
Fox quick brown the -- over Dog lazy -- jumps.
Post-position version:
Fox quick brown the -- Dog lazy over -- jumps.

Personally, I prefer the preposition option, but I'd be interested to see what you could do with say a verb oriented adposition like such:
Fox quick brown the -- Dog lazy -- jumps over.
Or
Fox quick brown the -- Dog lazy -- over jumps.

But you have literally 11 options to choose from - it's a matter of experimentation.
You're always very helpful when it comes to talking about stuff that I don't understand... thanks.

also, I wasn't planning on having any articles like 'the' or 'and', only possessives, demonstratives, or interrogatives, all which do not need to be used in proper grammar, but should be used to give more detail.

and also I'm not so sure that I'm gonna keep the word order that I have right now.... I came up with it sorta on the spot, and I made it so that the nouns in a sentence, for example the subject or the object, would be stated first and things like adverbs and stuff would come after.... but I want to make it so that things don't just crowd after a noun, like if I wanted to say something about my sock that was stinky and dirty, I would say 'sock stinky dirty my' and then a verb and an object maybe, but maybe I can do something like 'my sock stinky dirty', or maybe I can experiment with particles like in Japanese, where adjectives are stated with particles, such as 'sock *particle*stinky *Particle*dirty of me' or something like that.


Basically what I want to say is that I have a long way to go and you are really helping me through it. its gonna take quite a bit longer because this is my first time actually trying to make a language, but I'm pretty determined to make it functional at the very least before I give up on it.
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by elemtilas » Sat 17 Dec 2016, 18:39

Taurenzine wrote:I wasn't planning on having any articles like 'the' or 'and', only possessives, demonstratives, or interrogatives, all which do not need to be used in proper grammar, but should be used to give more detail.
I'm sure you meant "an" --- "and" is a conjunction, and a pretty handy one to keep around!

You can certainly dispense with articles. Many languages lack them. Your language just won't be able to distinguish (in)definiteness (the way English does). That's no great loss.

Historically, "the" (and indeed "la" in French / Spanish) derive from demonstrative pronouns. If you find a situation where definiteness needs or really should be distinguished, you could always call upon your demonstrative pronouns to serve the purpose. Or a numeral. Or some ordinary adjective like "certain".
and also I'm not so sure that I'm gonna keep the word order that I have right now.... I came up with it sorta on the spot, and I made it so that the nouns in a sentence, for example the subject or the object, would be stated first and things like adverbs and stuff would come after.... but I want to make it so that things don't just crowd after a noun, like if I wanted to say something about my sock that was stinky and dirty, I would say 'sock stinky dirty my' and then a verb and an object maybe, but maybe I can do something like 'my sock stinky dirty', or maybe I can experiment with particles like in Japanese, where adjectives are stated with particles, such as 'sock *particle*stinky *Particle*dirty of me' or something like that.
At this point, you might consider looking into the various word order options available to you. What you mention above is called SOV, subject-object-verb. As I recall, a good Latin word order of the Caesar the woad Britons advancing saw and, the cornu having been sounded, the attack commanded kind of thing. SVO is typical of English. VSO is typical in insular Celtic. Queranaran is OSV.

Also, take a look at the ways various languages handle the order of descriptive words --- possessives, adjectives, participles. There is very often a particular order they come in. Take a look at this article. It gives a good overview of how we construct adjective phrases in English. You can use this kind of thing as a basis for working your own magic.

Note, too, that in some languages adjectives may either precede or follow a noun. (In English, we only do this in poetry.) In such languages, the meaning of the adjective will often change. You might consider what would happen in this language if adjectives may come in either location.
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
Taurenzine
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2016, 16:29

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Sun 18 Dec 2016, 03:20

elemtilas wrote:
Taurenzine wrote:I wasn't planning on having any articles like 'the' or 'and', only possessives, demonstratives, or interrogatives, all which do not need to be used in proper grammar, but should be used to give more detail.
I'm sure you meant "an" --- "and" is a conjunction, and a pretty handy one to keep around!

You can certainly dispense with articles. Many languages lack them. Your language just won't be able to distinguish (in)definiteness (the way English does). That's no great loss.

Historically, "the" (and indeed "la" in French / Spanish) derive from demonstrative pronouns. If you find a situation where definiteness needs or really should be distinguished, you could always call upon your demonstrative pronouns to serve the purpose. Or a numeral. Or some ordinary adjective like "certain".
and also I'm not so sure that I'm gonna keep the word order that I have right now.... I came up with it sorta on the spot, and I made it so that the nouns in a sentence, for example the subject or the object, would be stated first and things like adverbs and stuff would come after.... but I want to make it so that things don't just crowd after a noun, like if I wanted to say something about my sock that was stinky and dirty, I would say 'sock stinky dirty my' and then a verb and an object maybe, but maybe I can do something like 'my sock stinky dirty', or maybe I can experiment with particles like in Japanese, where adjectives are stated with particles, such as 'sock *particle*stinky *Particle*dirty of me' or something like that.
At this point, you might consider looking into the various word order options available to you. What you mention above is called SOV, subject-object-verb. As I recall, a good Latin word order of the Caesar the woad Britons advancing saw and, the cornu having been sounded, the attack commanded kind of thing. SVO is typical of English. VSO is typical in insular Celtic. Queranaran is OSV.

Also, take a look at the ways various languages handle the order of descriptive words --- possessives, adjectives, participles. There is very often a particular order they come in. Take a look at this article. It gives a good overview of how we construct adjective phrases in English. You can use this kind of thing as a basis for working your own magic.

Note, too, that in some languages adjectives may either precede or follow a noun. (In English, we only do this in poetry.) In such languages, the meaning of the adjective will often change. You might consider what would happen in this language if adjectives may come in either location.
Thank you! and yes, I did mean to say 'an', and not 'and'.
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3184
Joined: Sat 22 Nov 2014, 04:48

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by elemtilas » Sun 18 Dec 2016, 04:24

Taurenzine wrote:Thank you! and yes, I did mean to say 'an', and not 'and'.
And, of course, do let us know what you decide on! We always want to see more!
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
User avatar
Taurenzine
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2016, 16:29

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Sun 18 Dec 2016, 20:37

Its a bit late to do this but I really don't like the sound /ʒ/ that much in my language, so although They will be present if necessary they will very rarely be used. same with /ð/.
User avatar
Inkcube-Revolver
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu 05 Nov 2015, 23:20
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Inkcube-Revolver » Mon 11 Dec 2017, 03:18

People here seem to generally dislike "necro-ing" on long-abandoned threads, but I found this topic yesterday, and I really liked the direction it was going in. I did, however, add my own embellishments to both, as I will show down below. I don't know how acceptable this kind of thing is, adding onto someone else's constuff the way I did, but I saw an opportunity to evolve the conscript, and fleshed out the language with the available material by proxy.

Starting off, I will show the bits of conlang material that were given back in 2016:

gɛm (fox)

kɛ-kran–a
(PRES.)+(jump)+(SIMPLE)

gɛm kɛˈkrana
"The fox jumps."

kɛ-kran-ɛ
(PRES)+(jump)+(PROG.)

gɛm kɛkranɛ
"The fox is jumping"

θu-kran-a
(PAST)+("jump")+(SIMPLE)

gɛm θuˈkrana
"The fox jumped"

-kran-i
(FUT.)+("jump")+(PERFECT)

gɛm pɑˈkrani
"The fox will have jumped"

kranso (infinitive)
"to jump"


Now I will show my additions to the conlang:

In this Verb Affix Table, I separated these forms into singular and plural:

Tense:
(PRES) kɛ- (sg.) , kɛn- (pl.)
(PAST) θu- (sg.) , θun- (pl.)
(FUT) pɑ- (sg.) , pɑn- (pl.)

Aspect is kept the same:
(SIMPLE) -a, -na
(PROG.) , -nɛ
(PERF.) -i, -ni


So, taking this paradigm into consideration, I wanted to maintain the verb cosntruction of kɛˈkrana without making it even longer, so I decided that the verbs won't inflect for person, just number, tense, and aspect (and possibly modality with auxiliaries; not there yet though). This led me to look at the constructions even closer, and to allow for the circumfixtures to be able to attach to each other without a root verb between them, so constructions like the ones below are possible:

θua (θu-a)
(PAST)+∅+(SIMPLE)
"(someone/s.thing) did (s.thing)"

kɛa (kɛ-a)
(PRES)+∅+(SIMPLE)
"X is doing Y"

**pɑa > **pɑ-a > pɑha
(FUT)+∅+(SIMPLE)
"X will do Y"

pɑi (pɑ-i)
(FUT)+∅+(PERF)
"X will have done Y"

What I conjecture here is that an actual verb meaning "do" may have been eroded over time, leaving the circumfixes to be able to freely attach to each other.

Example of this phenomenon with an adverb:
nop (adv.)
"up, over, out, away, beyond"
pɑi nop
"X will have done/gone up/over/out"

ˈpɑha, dukeˈswakaso ˈkaraːʃa dua aˈnjesima
"It's not my problem, someone else will do something (about it)."
Literally: Someone (else) will do, it's not my pimple to pop.


I've made six cases, your standard Nominative, Accusative, and Gentive, plus with Allative (to/towards X), Ablative (away/from X), and Comitative (together/with X). Might tweak this later, or Taurenzine, if you're up for it.
Spoiler:
"fox"
singular : plural
NOM: gɛm , gɛmɛl
ACC: gɛmɛs , gɛmɛsɛl
GEN: gɛˈmina , gɛˈminɛl~gɛˈminal
ALL: ˈgɛmɛː , gɛmɛlam
ABL: ˈgɛŋgo , gɛˈmɛlgo
COM: *gɛm-giːna > gɛŋˈgiːna , gɛŋˈgiːnal
Adjectives agree with and follow the noun they qualify:

kwaɛð(a) "dirty, filthy, soiled"

gɛm kwaɛð "The dirty fox"

ˈgɛmɛl ˈkwaɛðɛl "The filthy foxes"

Declension for "dog, hound":
Spoiler:
(*gruna-)
NOM: ˈgrunoː, ˈgrunoːn
ACC: ˈgrunoːs , ˈgrunoːsan ~ gruˈnoːsan
GEN: gruˈniːna , gruˈniːnan
ALL: grunam , gruˈnaman
ABL: gruˈnago , gruˈnagwan
COM: *grunaˈgiːna > gruŋˈgiːna , gruŋˈgiːnan
ˈgrunoː ˈkwaɛðoː "The dirty dog"
ˈgrunoːn ˈkwaɛðoːn "The dirty dogs"

ˈgɛmɛl ˈkwaɛðɛl ˈgrunoːs ˈkwaɛðoːs nop kɛŋˈkranɛ

"The filthy foxes are jumping over the dirty dogs."

"You" (2nd Person Pronoun Declension):
Spoiler:
ˈswar̥ɛ (nom. sg.)
ˈswasaː (acc. sg.)
swaˈsima (gen. sg.)
ˈswasam (all. s.g)
*ˈswasku > ˈswaːko (abl.)
*swasˈgiːna > swaːˈgiːna (com. sg.)
"I" (1st person pronoun singular; incomplete)
Spoiler:
NOM: aˈnjɛr̥ɛ
ACC: ˈanjɛː
GEN: aˈnjɛsima
ALL: aˈnjɛsam
ABL:
COM:
gɛm gruŋˈgiːna θuˈkrana
"The fox jumped with the dog."


bin- "to go, leave, depart"

aˈnjɛr̥ɛ kɛˈbina kɛ.a
"I leave."
(literally: "I leave (I) do;" this construction may be for intransitive verbs, I'm not quite sold on it yet)

grunoː aˈnjɛsoː kɛˈbina
("dog" NOM.) (1st ps. sg. prn)+(ABL.) (PRES.)+("go, leave")+(SIMPLE)
"The dog leaves/goes away from me."

-joʃ (causative verbal affix)

ˈgrunoː ˈswasam ˈanjɛː θuˈkranjoʃa

"The dog made me jump to/at you."

aˈnjɛr̥ɛ ˈswasam ˈgrunoːs θuˈkranjoʃa
"I made the dog jump at/for/to you."

ˈgrunoː ˈswasam ˈanjɛː θuˈbinjoʃa
"The dog made me go to you", "The dog led me to you."

ˈgɛmɛl ˈkwaɛðɛl ˈgrunoːs kɛˈkranjoʃa
"The filthy foxes make the dog jump", "The filthy foxes scare the dog."

swaːˈgiːna ˈanjɛː θuˈkranjoʃa
"(Someone/Something) made me jump with you."
or
θuˈkranjoʃa swaːˈgiːna ˈanjɛː
to put emphasis on the "something"

ˈgɛmɛl ˈkwaɛðɛl ˈpjolɛ ˈhuːθeŋˌgiːna ˈgrunoːs ʃuˈzila nop kɛnˈkranɛ.

"The two filthy foxes are jumping with speed over the lazy dog."

The word order in this sentence:
NOM ADJ NUMBER COM ACC ADJ ADVERB VERB

I might tweak with that last sentence because something about it doesn't sit too well with me, specifically with the placement of the adverb. Maybe also the construction of the foxes being quick.

If I have some free time tomorrow, I'll post the conscript evolution next. Regardless, expect that soon! I'm thinking that the language is fusional, but historically was agglutinative less than 1,000 years ago, so I'd have to tackle how that may look and work. Taurenzine, I'm pretty sure this is all nothing you had in mind for this conlang, so if you're still there, tell me what you think. Thoughts and comments down in the dooblydoo.
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.
User avatar
Inkcube-Revolver
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu 05 Nov 2015, 23:20
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Inkcube-Revolver » Sat 16 Dec 2017, 20:35

Ok! Here I can finally post why I've necro'd this page! I played with these earlier in the week, and to compare and contrast the results, here's the original image Taurenzine posted for his/her ancient alphabet earlier in the thread and my result below:

Image


Image

and some text to boot:

Image

Influences are from the Brahmic scripts, namely the Brahmi, Gupta, Telugu, Malayalam, and Devanagari scripts.

I'll post more when I get the chance, as I've derived about 3 or 4 or conscripts from Taurenzine's original alphabet, and I'll upload my process, as well.
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.
Post Reply