Welcome to my conlang

If you're new to these arts, this is the place to ask "stupid" questions and get directions!
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Taurenzine
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Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Wed 09 Nov 2016, 15:55

So I have another whole post on my language, but that was more for the symbols of the writing system and the phonetics. I have no name for this language yet, and I don't have any proper phonotactics. I tried making some phonotactics, but they were just bad. So I'm creating this post to kinda start fresh from having the old noobie of a conlanger that was me a month or two ago (although I'm still a noob) from contaminating what I have in sights for this language now. So, this language will focus mostly on Grammar, Phonotactics, and slight editing of my writing system. The writing system that I have now is here:
Image
There are two characters that I find a little bit awkward to write, and those are the ones representing /t/ and the ones representing /ɾ/. I also think that the dot-like sound Identifier is a little bit awkward when writing as well. I feel like it could work if it was just some form of print, like computer text or in a newspaper, but when being written they're just a bit strange. What do you think? try writing some things in my language. the word for good is /kjɑsa/, word for meet or gather is /pralt͡ʃa/ the past tense verb prefix (sort of like the suffix 'ing' in english, but not a suffix, a prefix) is /an/, the present tense verb prefix is /kɛ/, and the future tense verb prefix is /tɑ/. so basically, the verb 'meeted' in my language would be /anpralt͡ʃa/, the verb for meeting or gathering (the verb, not the noun) would be /kɛpralt͡ʃa/ and the verb for 'will meet' or 'will gather' /tɑpralt͡ʃa/. if you put the words for 'good' and 'meeting/gathering' together you get the statement 'good gathering' which basically means hello. try it, I want to see how other people write my language.
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Thu 10 Nov 2016, 18:57

Some more things here (NOTE:I made a mistake on the character that's supposed to represent /r/ in the second word... rather than having an accent on top, it should have a little 'v' mark on top of all of them... So just don't do what I did.):Image
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OTʜᴇB
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by OTʜᴇB » Thu 10 Nov 2016, 19:15

I'd write your /t/ and /r/ symbols as below. It's a lot easier than the neat computer versions and would seem more realistic for quick handwriting.
Spoiler:
Image
:con: : Current Project

BTW I use Arch
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Fri 11 Nov 2016, 19:48

OTʜᴇB wrote:I'd write your /t/ and /r/ symbols as below. It's a lot easier than the neat computer versions and would seem more realistic for quick handwriting.
Spoiler:
Image
I like the idea of the one you made for /t/, half as much for /r/. For handwriting I prefer yours definetally, however for Print or text and/or calligraphy, I prefer mine. I do very much like the character you made for /t/ though, it reminds me of the /l/ in Tengwar. at least I think that symbol was for /l/.... Hmmm.....
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by OTʜᴇB » Fri 11 Nov 2016, 20:23

Taurenzine wrote:
OTʜᴇB wrote:I'd write your /t/ and /r/ symbols as below. It's a lot easier than the neat computer versions and would seem more realistic for quick handwriting.
Spoiler:
Image
I like the idea of the one you made for /t/, half as much for /r/. For handwriting I prefer yours definetally, however for Print or text and/or calligraphy, I prefer mine. I do very much like the character you made for /t/ though, it reminds me of the /l/ in Tengwar. at least I think that symbol was for /l/.... Hmmm.....
Indeed. The typed ones can be as neat and fancy as you want and I believe that's exactly what should be done as the true beauty of a writing system comes out in the neat version (unless designed otherwise of course). My one was me estimating what they would look like if a person were to be writing these at a relatively high pace. A shape like your one for /r/ would probably be smoothed off when written (or scrawled or otherwise), looking more like a ʋ shape where the corner would be lost as it requires stopping the writing implement - in fast writing, the pen/pencil etc. will almost never stop moving, and so many corners are rounded off or just completely missed.
:con: : Current Project

BTW I use Arch
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Fri 11 Nov 2016, 23:21

OTʜᴇB wrote:
Taurenzine wrote:
OTʜᴇB wrote:I'd write your /t/ and /r/ symbols as below. It's a lot easier than the neat computer versions and would seem more realistic for quick handwriting.
Spoiler:
Image
I like the idea of the one you made for /t/, half as much for /r/. For handwriting I prefer yours definetally, however for Print or text and/or calligraphy, I prefer mine. I do very much like the character you made for /t/ though, it reminds me of the /l/ in Tengwar. at least I think that symbol was for /l/.... Hmmm.....
Indeed. The typed ones can be as neat and fancy as you want and I believe that's exactly what should be done as the true beauty of a writing system comes out in the neat version (unless designed otherwise of course). My one was me estimating what they would look like if a person were to be writing these at a relatively high pace. A shape like your one for /r/ would probably be smoothed off when written (or scrawled or otherwise), looking more like a ʋ shape where the corner would be lost as it requires stopping the writing implement - in fast writing, the pen/pencil etc. will almost never stop moving, and so many corners are rounded off or just completely missed.
Agreed. Thank you [:)]
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Nachtuil » Sun 13 Nov 2016, 23:15

System seems workable. I do think the p and b sounds might be too similar to the "th" sounds. I don't know if that had already been said.
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 02:16

Nachtuil wrote:System seems workable. I do think the p and b sounds might be too similar to the "th" sounds. I don't know if that had already been said.
I can see how you would think that, but to those learning it, if it's written properly I believe that it can be distinguished pretty easily. sorta like the difference between the Russian letter э and the Russian letter з, you know?
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 02:22

So I've slightly edited the writing system to be a little bit less rigid and a little bit more smooth and flowing. I changed the Symbol for /ʃ/ to be slightly different, and I removed the breathy /ɾ/ that I previously had making it only a NON BREATHY /ɾ/. Here:
Image
Here's an Image that displays the differences between the old and the new:
Image
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 18:49

I've got some problems guys... I have this feeling that My writing system isn't good enough. The Phonotactics that I'm making are good, and the grammar and words are ok, but I just don't have a really good looking writing system. its boring looking and unappealing, so I think I'm gonna work on another one from scratch. Initially I thought it was, but that was just the initial 'Wow, I made something!' feel that you get when you make something that your proud of. times have changed and so will this writing system.
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by OTʜᴇB » Mon 14 Nov 2016, 19:49

Taurenzine wrote:I've got some problems guys... I have this feeling that My writing system isn't good enough. The Phonotactics that I'm making are good, and the grammar and words are ok, but I just don't have a really good looking writing system. its boring looking and unappealing, so I think I'm gonna work on another one from scratch. Initially I thought it was, but that was just the initial 'Wow, I made something!' feel that you get when you make something that your proud of. times have changed and so will this writing system.
That's good progress. I've gone through loads of ideas and a lot of the time, I'd make something I liked at first, but got bored with quite quickly.

If you want a kind of guide: Try this pdf made from a thread made by clawgrip. It's a brilliant resource for making a conscript and I use it every time.

One thing I like to do is make a featural writing system. This takes off most of the work for designing each character as the design is based on the sound. Look and Hangul for a real world example.

Another thing you can do is make a writing system other than an alphabet. Alphabets are good, but they have a habit of becoming quite boring after a while. Say your syllable structure is CV, a syllabary would be an excellent system to use and it halves the length of your writing. Maybe you want to be more artistic and make a logography. One of the best ways to do this is to evolve one yourself. Start with pictographs for your words, then modify and change them so they fit into a theme you like. Use ideographs for stuff other than nouns and you're off.

If you're less artistic, then something very neat and orderly might be more entertaining. Look into alphasyllabaries: these are my favourite as they combine the intricacy and beauty of complex systems like logographs of Chinese and the flexibility of an alphabet. The system I'm using at the moment for my current project is a featural alphasyllabary. I only have 8 possible variations of syllable structure and a relatively small phonology, so creating these symbols is very easy. I have a selection of variations for each character to fit into the bounds of my glyphs, then they slot together nicely. Here is mine. Feel free to take inspiration from it. This is the neat version and I'm also making a hand-written cursive version.
Spoiler:
Image
:con: : Current Project

BTW I use Arch
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 01:20

OTʜᴇB wrote:
Taurenzine wrote:I've got some problems guys... I have this feeling that My writing system isn't good enough. The Phonotactics that I'm making are good, and the grammar and words are ok, but I just don't have a really good looking writing system. its boring looking and unappealing, so I think I'm gonna work on another one from scratch. Initially I thought it was, but that was just the initial 'Wow, I made something!' feel that you get when you make something that your proud of. times have changed and so will this writing system.
That's good progress. I've gone through loads of ideas and a lot of the time, I'd make something I liked at first, but got bored with quite quickly.

If you want a kind of guide: Try this pdf made from a thread made by clawgrip. It's a brilliant resource for making a conscript and I use it every time.

One thing I like to do is make a featural writing system. This takes off most of the work for designing each character as the design is based on the sound. Look and Hangul for a real world example.

Another thing you can do is make a writing system other than an alphabet. Alphabets are good, but they have a habit of becoming quite boring after a while. Say your syllable structure is CV, a syllabary would be an excellent system to use and it halves the length of your writing. Maybe you want to be more artistic and make a logography. One of the best ways to do this is to evolve one yourself. Start with pictographs for your words, then modify and change them so they fit into a theme you like. Use ideographs for stuff other than nouns and you're off.

If you're less artistic, then something very neat and orderly might be more entertaining. Look into alphasyllabaries: these are my favourite as they combine the intricacy and beauty of complex systems like logographs of Chinese and the flexibility of an alphabet. The system I'm using at the moment for my current project is a featural alphasyllabary. I only have 8 possible variations of syllable structure and a relatively small phonology, so creating these symbols is very easy. I have a selection of variations for each character to fit into the bounds of my glyphs, then they slot together nicely. Here is mine. Feel free to take inspiration from it. This is the neat version and I'm also making a hand-written cursive version.
Spoiler:
Image
My god, this is Why I love conlanging. I mean look at that writing system of your's, its AMAZING! Thank you for the sources, I'll try to make a better one as soon as possible. and good luck with your's I Really look forward to you adding another beauty to the amazing community of Conlangs :)
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by OTʜᴇB » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 13:22

Taurenzine wrote:My god, this is Why I love conlanging. I mean look at that writing system of your's, its AMAZING! Thank you for the sources, I'll try to make a better one as soon as possible. and good luck with your's I Really look forward to you adding another beauty to the amazing community of Conlangs :)
Why thank you. It is my favourite of my works so far. Writing systems are my favourite part of conlangs so if you have any queries or thoughts or you get stuck - ask and I'd be more than happy to help.
:con: : Current Project

BTW I use Arch
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Tue 15 Nov 2016, 15:27

OTʜᴇB wrote:
Taurenzine wrote:My god, this is Why I love conlanging. I mean look at that writing system of your's, its AMAZING! Thank you for the sources, I'll try to make a better one as soon as possible. and good luck with your's I Really look forward to you adding another beauty to the amazing community of Conlangs :)
Why thank you. It is my favourite of my works so far. Writing systems are my favourite part of conlangs so if you have any queries or thoughts or you get stuck - ask and I'd be more than happy to help.
Thank you [:D]
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by elemtilas » Wed 16 Nov 2016, 05:30

Taurenzine wrote:I've got some problems guys... I have this feeling that My writing system isn't good enough. The Phonotactics that I'm making are good, and the grammar and words are ok, but I just don't have a really good looking writing system. its boring looking and unappealing, so I think I'm gonna work on another one from scratch. Initially I thought it was, but that was just the initial 'Wow, I made something!' feel that you get when you make something that your proud of. times have changed and so will this writing system.
I actually rather like the system you came up with! Some of the actual letter-forms, sure, not my favorites, but that's a matter of de gustibus. You've got a pretty simple and straightforward system of basic glyphs that can be modified diacritically. There's certainly something to be said for that!

The fun will come as you consider ancestral and perhaps descendant forms of this language, and how the writing system evolved (or didn't!) along side the language. Kind of like how we have two or three letters for the same sound; and other instances where perfectly good letters have retired from public service.

As for not being good enough, well, I think that's a matter of perspective! You think it looks boring and unappealing; I think it looks about the opposite. To me it looks like it has some history behind it! I would definitely suggest taking some time to actually use it, even to write English. This will give you a good sense of two things: one is the flow of the system --- how easy or hard it is for the letters to be placed on paper and also the "real" letter shapes --- the difference between concept and implementation in vivo. Exercise these letters enough and soon you'll have a writing system that is anything but boring and unappealing, because it will be real, and true to the history of the language it belongs with!

If you're interested, take a look at one of my more recent scripts: Queranaran.
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Wed 16 Nov 2016, 17:47

elemtilas wrote:
Taurenzine wrote:I've got some problems guys... I have this feeling that My writing system isn't good enough. The Phonotactics that I'm making are good, and the grammar and words are ok, but I just don't have a really good looking writing system. its boring looking and unappealing, so I think I'm gonna work on another one from scratch. Initially I thought it was, but that was just the initial 'Wow, I made something!' feel that you get when you make something that your proud of. times have changed and so will this writing system.
I actually rather like the system you came up with! Some of the actual letter-forms, sure, not my favorites, but that's a matter of de gustibus. You've got a pretty simple and straightforward system of basic glyphs that can be modified diacritically. There's certainly something to be said for that!

The fun will come as you consider ancestral and perhaps descendant forms of this language, and how the writing system evolved (or didn't!) along side the language. Kind of like how we have two or three letters for the same sound; and other instances where perfectly good letters have retired from public service.

As for not being good enough, well, I think that's a matter of perspective! You think it looks boring and unappealing; I think it looks about the opposite. To me it looks like it has some history behind it! I would definitely suggest taking some time to actually use it, even to write English. This will give you a good sense of two things: one is the flow of the system --- how easy or hard it is for the letters to be placed on paper and also the "real" letter shapes --- the difference between concept and implementation in vivo. Exercise these letters enough and soon you'll have a writing system that is anything but boring and unappealing, because it will be real, and true to the history of the language it belongs with!

If you're interested, take a look at one of my more recent scripts: Queranaran.
Thank you for giving me the motivation to test it out a bit before burning it, and when I looked at the language you're making, just like all the other scripts I see, I saw Amazing beauty and creativity. and every time I see something like it, I'm reminded why I love conlanging.
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Sun 20 Nov 2016, 18:21

Major changes, Same basic Idea.

I've done a lot with the writing system I used to have, and now I think that the glyphs are all more compatible with each other. The Glyph fourth from the left and one down should be connected where its split, there must have been an issue with the white out. It should be one stroke. in the Image showing the Diacritics, there's an image showing what it should look like. first one under unique glyphs.
Spoiler:
Image
Spoiler:
Image
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Mon 21 Nov 2016, 00:31

Right, So lots of things happened today. I spent a lot of time thinking and doing, and tried something new that I'd never done before. Check it out, My writing system is now top-to-bottom.
Spoiler:
Image
Nachtuil
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Nachtuil » Mon 21 Nov 2016, 06:02

The vertical approach seems to work well enough for me. It definitely has a nice look to it. You should contemplate on the history of your writing system and how it has traditionally been written. The up stroking is characteristic of using a brush or a modern ball point pen where you can more or less create strokes in any direction without any difficulty. Systems where you might use quill you typically see strokes that start high and end low. The former approach is of course, perfectly legitimate. Your writing reminds me of Mongolian script where they traditionally used brushes. If you want to go the later route where quills or other utensils are used, you'll want to analyse the way your make your characters. If you have never done it, I recommend buying a dip pen set and some ink and playing around. If you want to go the brush route, definitely try that route out too :) If your writing system developed with ball point pens, that's also legitimate enough.
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Taurenzine
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Re: Welcome to my conlang

Post by Taurenzine » Mon 21 Nov 2016, 14:18

Nachtuil wrote:The vertical approach seems to work well enough for me. It definitely has a nice look to it. You should contemplate on the history of your writing system and how it has traditionally been written. The up stroking is characteristic of using a brush or a modern ball point pen where you can more or less create strokes in any direction without any difficulty. Systems where you might use quill you typically see strokes that start high and end low. The former approach is of course, perfectly legitimate. Your writing reminds me of Mongolian script where they traditionally used brushes. If you want to go the later route where quills or other utensils are used, you'll want to analyse the way your make your characters. If you have never done it, I recommend buying a dip pen set and some ink and playing around. If you want to go the brush route, definitely try that route out too :) If your writing system developed with ball point pens, that's also legitimate enough.
I've got Dip ink pens, ink brushes, and caligraphy pens (Cheap caligraphy pens though) and I want to get a fountain pen like the pilot metropolitan soon. I don't know what the defenition of soon is though, it could be quite a while from now. But I'll definetally try the others, and I'll make another chart for you guys when the time comes.
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