ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

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ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by Shemtov » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 21:17

ယြး語 Yr̄ Phāsā /jɚ́ pʰásá /, often called Yar by non-specialists, is an Indo-Iranian Language, forming a fourth branch by itself, spoken along the Daying River Valley in China and Myanmar. It is written using a mix of Burmese script (for grammar particles and proper names) and Hanzi.
Phonology:
/p pʰ t tʰ t͡s t͡ɕ k kʰ/ <b p d t c q g k>
/f s ɕ/ <f s x>
/m n -ŋ/ <m n ng>
/l/ <l>
/j w/ <y w>

/i u/ <i u>
/e o/ <ei o>
/ə ɚ/ <e r>
/a/ <a>

/˧ ˥ ˩ ˧˥ ˩˧/ <V V̄ Ṽ V̋ V́>

Permitted finals: /p t k m n j w/

The Burmese adaptation is complicated, but regular, so I will post about it later. I will represent everything both in the Mixed Script and the Romanazation.
Numbers 1-10 are unusual, as they are written with the First Consonant in Burmese script before the Hanzi:
ဣ一 <Iwā>
တ二<Do>
တ三 <Dryā>
သ四 <Satwā>
ပ五 <Bān>
သ六 <Sō>
သ七 <Sãda>
အ八 <Āt>
န九 <Naw>
တ十 <Dát>
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by jhcampbell » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 23:13

A combo of Burmese and Hanzi is quite interesting - I wonder what could be the cause of such mix in an alternative history.

In the Burmese language, သ is pronounced /θ/, though its origins had /s/. Mon language which uses the same (ish) alphabet pronounces it with /s/.
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by Shemtov » Wed 11 Jul 2018, 23:46

jhcampbell wrote:
Wed 11 Jul 2018, 23:13
A combo of Burmese and Hanzi is quite interesting - I wonder what could be the cause of such mix in an alternative history.

The Yr̄ were illiterate, but adopted the Burmese Script in a variety of adaptations, for private notes. When Sinicization came after WWII, the Chinese Yr̄ were forced to adopt Hanzi by the Communists, but allowances for untranslatable concepts, with a standardization of the Burmese, and a formation of the Ēr Autonomous Region in the PRC, about 1.75X the size of Rhode Island. After the CER in the PRC, most Burmese Yr̄ went to China, as part of the Yr̄ Diaspora; They wanted a pre-existing Yr̄ community that had Bilinguals in the Host's native language. They were forced to adopt "Standard Yr̄"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by Shemtov » Thu 12 Jul 2018, 04:38

Nouns take the particle အး <ā> to mark for plurality:
r̄k ā
狼အး
"Wolves"

They also take case marking particles. They, and Ā can be seperated from the noun by adjectives:
Accusative: အမ <am>
Dative: အ <a>

Genetive: ယး <ya>

The language follows a general SOV order:
父ယ火狼အမအး 殺
Be̋t ya ãtr r̄k am ā sãn
"Father's fire kills wolves"
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by All4Ɇn » Sat 14 Jul 2018, 04:50

This looks really cool so far. I'm not sure how likely it'd be though for a mixed Hanzi script to develop in just over 80 years though. Are there any irl instances of the Communist Party of China forcing hanzi on non-Sinitic languages?
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by jhcampbell » Sat 14 Jul 2018, 20:06

All4Ɇn wrote:
Sat 14 Jul 2018, 04:50
This looks really cool so far. I'm not sure how likely it'd be though for a mixed Hanzi script to develop in just over 80 years though. Are there any irl instances of the Communist Party of China forcing hanzi on non-Sinitic languages?
It's definitely a more difficult process to enforce than, say, Cyrillic and the Soviets. I know that many of the minority languages in the PRC tend to be developed from Latin Scripts - either Westernized or Pinyin style.
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by Shemtov » Sun 15 Jul 2018, 19:40

All4Ɇn wrote:
Sat 14 Jul 2018, 04:50
This looks really cool so far. I'm not sure how likely it'd be though for a mixed Hanzi script to develop in just over 80 years though. Are there any irl instances of the Communist Party of China forcing hanzi on non-Sinitic languages?
You're right and i'm changing it so that the current system comes from the Northeast Yr̄, the Dáw Yr̄, who adapted Daoism to the Theraveda Buddhism that the majority of Yr̄ follow, to form a syncratism. They would often write with some Hanzi inserted, but had an imperfect knowledge of Hanzi, so until the communists, they used various, imperfect systems, however they wanted a standard system. When the Communists took over, the Dáw Yr̄,having more knowledge of Chinese culture, seized the opportunity, and claimed their want of Hanzi to be communism based, ie. the Region should have connection to the Main body of China. After the fall of the Gang of Four, the Dáw Yr̄ shot to the top of the Region's CCP, as they had good relations with the post-Gang of Four CCP. This allowed them to request the help of Chinese Linguists to form a mixed Hanzi-Burmese script. Many outside observers claim that the Yr̄ Regional Government isn't even really ideologically aligned with the "main" CCP, but only claim to be, as they are "Opportunists" who do what they must to have control over the rest of the Yr̄.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 16 Jul 2018, 04:36

Shemtov wrote:
Sun 15 Jul 2018, 19:40
You're right and i'm changing it so that the current system comes from the Northeast Yr̄, the Dáw Yr̄, who adapted Daoism to the Theraveda Buddhism that the majority of Yr̄ follow, to form a syncratism. They would often write with some Hanzi inserted, but had an imperfect knowledge of Hanzi, so until the communists, they used various, imperfect systems, however they wanted a standard system. When the Communists took over, the Dáw Yr̄,having more knowledge of Chinese culture, seized the opportunity, and claimed their want of Hanzi to be communism based, ie. the Region should have connection to the Main body of China. After the fall of the Gang of Four, the Dáw Yr̄ shot to the top of the Region's CCP, as they had good relations with the post-Gang of Four CCP. This allowed them to request the help of Chinese Linguists to form a mixed Hanzi-Burmese script. Many outside observers claim that the Yr̄ Regional Government isn't even really ideologically aligned with the "main" CCP, but only claim to be, as they are "Opportunists" who do what they must to have control over the rest of the Yr̄.
To be honest, this is a much cooler sounding backstory!
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 24 Jul 2018, 22:32

Shemtov wrote:
Wed 11 Jul 2018, 21:17
ယြး語 Yr̄ Phāsā /jɚ́ pʰásá /, often called Yar by non-specialists, is an Indo-Iranian Language, forming a fourth branch by itself, spoken along the Daying River Valley in China and Myanmar.
Cool idea! I've thought of trying to create a 4th Indo-Iranian branch before myself, but I'd never considered taking it in this kind of direction.
Shemtov wrote:
Wed 11 Jul 2018, 21:17
It is written using a mix of Burmese script (for grammar particles and proper names) and Hanzi.
Was this inspired by the way Japanese is written, perhaps?
Shemtov wrote:
Wed 11 Jul 2018, 21:17
Phonology:
/p pʰ t tʰ t͡s t͡ɕ k kʰ/ <b p d t c q g k>
/pʰ/ is romanized as <p>, but the /pʰ/ the name of the language is romanized as <ph>?

Also, would it be possible to see at least some of the sound changes from Proto-Indo-Iranian?
All4Ɇn wrote:
Mon 16 Jul 2018, 04:36
Shemtov wrote:
Sun 15 Jul 2018, 19:40
You're right and i'm changing it so that the current system comes from the Northeast Yr̄, the Dáw Yr̄, who adapted Daoism to the Theraveda Buddhism that the majority of Yr̄ follow, to form a syncratism. They would often write with some Hanzi inserted, but had an imperfect knowledge of Hanzi, so until the communists, they used various, imperfect systems, however they wanted a standard system. When the Communists took over, the Dáw Yr̄,having more knowledge of Chinese culture, seized the opportunity, and claimed their want of Hanzi to be communism based, ie. the Region should have connection to the Main body of China. After the fall of the Gang of Four, the Dáw Yr̄ shot to the top of the Region's CCP, as they had good relations with the post-Gang of Four CCP. This allowed them to request the help of Chinese Linguists to form a mixed Hanzi-Burmese script. Many outside observers claim that the Yr̄ Regional Government isn't even really ideologically aligned with the "main" CCP, but only claim to be, as they are "Opportunists" who do what they must to have control over the rest of the Yr̄.
To be honest, this is a much cooler sounding backstory!
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by Shemtov » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 00:03

shimobaatar wrote:
Tue 24 Jul 2018, 22:32
Shemtov wrote:
Wed 11 Jul 2018, 21:17
ယြး語 Yr̄ Phāsā /jɚ́ pʰásá /, often called Yar by non-specialists, is an Indo-Iranian Language, forming a fourth branch by itself, spoken along the Daying River Valley in China and Myanmar.
Cool idea! I've thought of trying to create a 4th Indo-Iranian branch before myself, but I'd never considered taking it in this kind of direction.

It was inspired by discussions about how to make an IE Language fall in the Chinese and Southeast Asian Sprachbund

shimobaatar wrote:
Tue 24 Jul 2018, 22:32

Shemtov wrote:
Wed 11 Jul 2018, 21:17
It is written using a mix of Burmese script (for grammar particles and proper names) and Hanzi.
Was this inspired by the way Japanese is written, perhaps?



Yes.

shimobaatar wrote:
Tue 24 Jul 2018, 22:32


Shemtov wrote:
Wed 11 Jul 2018, 21:17
Phonology:
/p pʰ t tʰ t͡s t͡ɕ k kʰ/ <b p d t c q g k>
/pʰ/ is romanized as <p>, but the /pʰ/ the name of the language is romanized as <ph>?

That's what happens when your first draft of the romanazation is <p ph t th ts ch k kh> and then you realize that basing it on Pinyin is better.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: ယြး語/Yr̄ Phāsā

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 07:06

Shemtov wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 00:03
That's what happens when your first draft of the romanazation is <p ph t th ts ch k kh> and then you realize that basing it on Pinyin is better.
You could still keep it in the name. Could be similar to Chiang Kai-shek or Peking in modern English.
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