Yay or Nay?

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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 04 Apr 2018, 01:26

Ælfwine wrote:
Wed 04 Apr 2018, 01:18
Hey guys. So I am changing the name of my Romlang, Pelsodian, to Castellian, based around the fact that many nearby Dalmatian languages also take their name from the city they are from. such as Ragusean from Ragusa. (In my example, it is from the modern Hungarian city of Keszthely, which would be from <CASTELLUM.) My only worry is that it becomes too close to the name "Castilian." This is formed from the same suffix -ianu in Vulgar Latin, so I thought about using another suffix, like -icu (Castellic) or -esis (Castellese), or perhaps another suffix if you guys know any. What do you think is the best choice?
Pelsodian.

Between Castellic and Castellese, I prefer Castellic.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Fluffy8x » Thu 05 Apr 2018, 22:40

Planning to cover relative clauses in levian9. I'm set on the Rel/N order (same as Adj/N), but unsure of which strategy I should use or what should be relativisable. Thinking of using non-reduction, though, if I can't find something more unorthodox (aside from ditching relative clauses completely as I did in Lek-Tsaro).

Any opinions?
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Birdlang » Fri 06 Apr 2018, 11:43

My main conlang needs a sound change
I’m thinking of changing the massive kitchen-sink phonology into something simple
I could’nt post the first phonology because it would take too long.
I’ve decided to simplify it into this
Consonants
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ŋ
/p pʰ b t tʰ d c cʰ ɟ k kʰ g ʔ/ p ph b t th d ķ ķh ģ k kh g ɂ
/ts tsʰ dz tʃ tʃʰ dʒ/ c ch ʒ č čh ǯ
/cç cçʰ ɟʝ/ ċ ċh ǧ
/s z ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ/ s z š ž ś ź
/ɸ β f v θ ð ç ʝ x ɣ ħ ʕ h/ ᵽ ƀ f v ṯ ḏ ĥ ĵ ḵ ḡ ḥ x h
/l ɬ r ɽ j w ɰ/ l ɫ r ɽ ȷ w ẅ
/i y ɯ u ɪ ʊ e ø ɤ o ə ɛ ʌ̈~ɜ ɔ æ ɐ a ɒ/ + /aː ã aˀ/ i ü ư u ĭ ŭ e ö ë o ĕ ê ŏ ä ă a ô ā aƞ ả
What are your opinions?
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by opipik » Fri 06 Apr 2018, 11:51

I would simplify the vowels into something like this:
/i y ɯ u e ø ɤ~ə o ɛ ɔ a/ + /aː ã aˀ/ and combinations of these
<i ü ũ u e ö õ o é ó a> <aa ą a’> + <aa’ ą’ ąą ąą’>
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Omzinesý » Fri 06 Apr 2018, 19:24

I don't understand the question.
Fluffy8x wrote:
Thu 05 Apr 2018, 22:40
Planning to cover relative clauses in levian9. I'm set on the Rel/N order (same as Adj/N), but unsure of which strategy I should use or what should be relativisable. Thinking of using non-reduction, though, if I can't find something more unorthodox (aside from ditching relative clauses completely as I did in Lek-Tsaro).

Any opinions?
What are the "strategies" you are considering?
Non-reduction? What's that?
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Birdlang » Fri 06 Apr 2018, 20:01

opipik wrote:
Fri 06 Apr 2018, 11:51
I would simplify the vowels into something like this:
/i y ɯ u e ø ɤ~ə o ɛ ɔ a/ + /aː ã aˀ/ and combinations of these
<i ü ũ u e ö õ o é ó a> <aa ą a’> + <aa’ ą’ ąą ąą’>
Ok.
I’ll make it like the following
/i y ɯ~ɨ u e ø ə~ɤ o ɛ ʌ~ɜ ɔ æ a/ and the same vowel mods
Like
Ii Üü Ûû Uu Éé Öö Ôô Oo Èè Êê Òò Ee Aa
And
Āā Ãã AɁaɂ Ā̃ā̃ ÃɁãɂ ĀɁāɂ Ā̃Ɂā̃ɂ
What about the consonants?
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by opipik » Fri 06 Apr 2018, 20:36

OK, I simplified the consonants a bit.

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ŋ
/p pʰ b t tʰ d ts tsʰ dz tʂ tʂʰ dʐ tɕ tɕʰ dʑ c cʰ ɟ k kʰ g ʔ/ p ph b t th d c ch ʒ č čh ǯ ć ćh ʒ́ ķ ķh ģ k kh g ɂ
/r ɽ/ r ɽ
/ɸ β θ ð ɬ s z ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ x ɣ ħ ʕ h/ f v ṯ ḏ ɫ s z š ž ś ź ḵ ḡ ḥ x h
/w l ʎ j ɰ/ w l ľ j ẅ
maybe some implosives (for example /ɓ ɗ ʄ/ ƀ đ ɉ)?
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Birdlang » Sat 07 Apr 2018, 12:40

opipik wrote:
Fri 06 Apr 2018, 20:36
OK, I simplified the consonants a bit.

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ŋ
/p pʰ b t tʰ d ts tsʰ dz tʂ tʂʰ dʐ tɕ tɕʰ dʑ c cʰ ɟ k kʰ g ʔ/ p ph b t th d c ch ʒ č čh ǯ ć ćh ʒ́ ķ ķh ģ k kh g ɂ
/r ɽ/ r ɽ
/ɸ β θ ð ɬ s z ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ x ɣ ħ ʕ h/ f v ṯ ḏ ɫ s z š ž ś ź ḵ ḡ ḥ x h
/w l ʎ j ɰ/ w l ľ j ẅ
maybe some implosives (for example /ɓ ɗ ʄ/ ƀ đ ɉ)?
OK. Thanks. I will definitely add implosives.
Now
/i y ɯ~ɨ u e ø ə~ɤ o ɛ ʌ~ɜ ɔ æ a/ and the same vowel mods
Like
Ii Üü Ûû Uu Éé Öö Ôô Oo Èè Êê Òò Ee Aa
And
Āā Ãã AɁaɂ Ā̃ā̃ ÃɁãɂ ĀɁāɂ Ā̃Ɂā̃ɂ
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ŋ
/p pʰ b t tʰ d ts tsʰ dz tʂ tʂʰ dʐ tɕ tɕʰ dʑ c cʰ ɟ k kʰ g ʔ/ p ph b t th d c ch ʒ č čh ǯ ć ćh ʒ́ ķ ķh ģ k kh g ɂ
/r ɽ/ r ɽ
/ɸ β θ ð ɬ s z ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ x ɣ ħ ʕ h/ f v ṯ ḏ ɫ s z š ž ś ź ḵ ḡ ḥ x h
/w l ʎ j ɰ/ w l ľ j ẅ
/ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ/ ƀ đ ɉ ǥ
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ælfwine » Tue 10 Apr 2018, 18:51

shimobaatar wrote:
Wed 04 Apr 2018, 01:26
Ælfwine wrote:
Wed 04 Apr 2018, 01:18
Hey guys. So I am changing the name of my Romlang, Pelsodian, to Castellian, based around the fact that many nearby Dalmatian languages also take their name from the city they are from. such as Ragusean from Ragusa. (In my example, it is from the modern Hungarian city of Keszthely, which would be from <CASTELLUM.) My only worry is that it becomes too close to the name "Castilian." This is formed from the same suffix -ianu in Vulgar Latin, so I thought about using another suffix, like -icu (Castellic) or -esis (Castellese), or perhaps another suffix if you guys know any. What do you think is the best choice?
Pelsodian.

Between Castellic and Castellese, I prefer Castellic.
I might end up going down that route, anyway. I was looking into the etymology of Keszthely, and one reconstructed form seems to be Kostelьcь from PS. While the Latin -icu suffix was no longer productive, Slavic -jec was, so I think it's native name might have been /cæstėljėk/ around the 6th century.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Lao Kou » Sat 21 Apr 2018, 04:35

In light of recent events, I found myself going to the Géarthnuns dictionary to see if there was a word for what I, as an American goy, would have called a yarmulke. Surprisingly, there is naught. The word bandied about on the news is kippah (כִּיפָּה), which, frankly, I had never heard before. So I'm wondering how to bring this word in.

1) kípalats or íarmulkelats would be the usual way to deal with foreign words, and while their neutrality wouldn't necessarily piss anybody off, they feel a little distant and cold. We're not talking about kimchee, for goodness sake.

2) The plural, kippot, as kípots, כִּיפּוֹת would make a nice loan word. Albeit plural, it could get loaned in as a singular (cf. English spaghetti -- which is uncountable, at least in my idiolect, but let's not go there, girlfriend).

3) íarmulks would also be a decent, if uncommon, loan.

4) Allow both kípots and íarmulks and let the Géarthtörs Jewish community duke it out amongst themselves as to what's appropriate.

5) The Yiddish, קאפל‎ koppel, as kaupels, would also work, but how did it get to the Sea of Japan? (reality is not a priority, but sheesh!)

6) Coin or calque ("dome") something else.

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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 21 Apr 2018, 13:16

It looks like you prefer option 4) [:D]
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 21 Apr 2018, 17:09

Creyeditor wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 13:16
It looks like you prefer option 4) [:D]
What makes you say that?

In any case, though, I actually do prefer option 4 myself.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Lao Kou » Mon 23 Apr 2018, 12:41

shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 17:09
Creyeditor wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 13:16
It looks like you prefer option 4) [:D]
What makes you say that?
I haven't really noticed shimo prone to sarcasm, and if the above comment isn't that, I suspect what Creyeditor means is that I stacked the deck/loaded the dice to get the result I wanted in the first place. Perhaps, perhaps not. I was more concerned about stepping into a terminological minefield.
In any case, though, I actually do prefer option 4 myself.
Without some complicated, convoluted backstory, this is probably a good way to go: fob the responsibility off on to the fictional people. [xP]
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 23 Apr 2018, 15:37

Lao Kou wrote:
Mon 23 Apr 2018, 12:41
shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 17:09
Creyeditor wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 13:16
It looks like you prefer option 4) [:D]
What makes you say that?
I haven't really noticed shimo prone to sarcasm, and if the above comment isn't that, I suspect what Creyeditor means is that I stacked the deck/loaded the dice to get the result I wanted in the first place. Perhaps, perhaps not. I was more concerned about stepping into a terminological minefield.
No, that wasn't sarcasm. Creyeditor made it seem like you had made your preference obvious somehow, but I didn't see any indication of that at all, so I was asking for clarification.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by spanick » Mon 23 Apr 2018, 15:49

Using a derivative of “yarmulke” has the same problem as option (5) in that “yarmulke” is a Yiddish term derived from Slavic sources. Unless you have a large Ashkenazi population, I wouldn’t expect it to be part of the lexicon. Therefor, I’d suggest options (1) or (2).
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Creyeditor » Mon 23 Apr 2018, 22:01

shimobaatar wrote:
Mon 23 Apr 2018, 15:37
Lao Kou wrote:
Mon 23 Apr 2018, 12:41
shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 17:09
Creyeditor wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 13:16
It looks like you prefer option 4) [:D]
What makes you say that?
I haven't really noticed shimo prone to sarcasm, and if the above comment isn't that, I suspect what Creyeditor means is that I stacked the deck/loaded the dice to get the result I wanted in the first place. Perhaps, perhaps not. I was more concerned about stepping into a terminological minefield.
No, that wasn't sarcasm. Creyeditor made it seem like you had made your preference obvious somehow, but I didn't see any indication of that at all, so I was asking for clarification.
Option 4) was the only option that was not listed with a disadvantage. Option 1) distant and cold, option 2) "let's not go there" 3) uncommon 4) duke it out 5) how did it get to the Sea of Japan 6) something else
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 23 Apr 2018, 22:41

Creyeditor wrote:
Mon 23 Apr 2018, 22:01
shimobaatar wrote:
Mon 23 Apr 2018, 15:37
Lao Kou wrote:
Mon 23 Apr 2018, 12:41
shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 17:09
Creyeditor wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 13:16
It looks like you prefer option 4) [:D]
What makes you say that?
I haven't really noticed shimo prone to sarcasm, and if the above comment isn't that, I suspect what Creyeditor means is that I stacked the deck/loaded the dice to get the result I wanted in the first place. Perhaps, perhaps not. I was more concerned about stepping into a terminological minefield.
No, that wasn't sarcasm. Creyeditor made it seem like you had made your preference obvious somehow, but I didn't see any indication of that at all, so I was asking for clarification.
Option 4) was the only option that was not listed with a disadvantage. Option 1) distant and cold, option 2) "let's not go there" 3) uncommon 4) duke it out 5) how did it get to the Sea of Japan 6) something else
Well, it seems like we interpret some things differently. Anyway, this isn't really relevant.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Frislander » Wed 25 Apr 2018, 13:12

Lao Kou wrote:
Sat 21 Apr 2018, 04:35
In light of recent events, I found myself going to the Géarthnuns dictionary to see if there was a word for what I, as an American goy, would have called a yarmulke. Surprisingly, there is naught. The word bandied about on the news is kippah (כִּיפָּה), which, frankly, I had never heard before.
Interesting difference there; I only knew the word kippah before I arrived on the internet, because kippah is the word used when Judaism is talked about in Religious Education classes in the UK and outside of certain urban areas Jewish culture doesn't really have anything like the presence it has in the popular consciousness of the US. (similarly I had never heard of the word "goy" until I came on the internet; for most of my childhood I only knew the word "gentile").
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by spanick » Thu 26 Apr 2018, 18:18

I have a couple ideas for my Romlang Túrnnan that is like to get some opinions on.

1) initially, I didn’t design Túrnnan with a subjunctive because the present subjunctive and present indicative of Latin became identical in Túrnnan. It didn’t take long for me to wish there was some subjunctive so I tried deriving it from the imperfect subjunctive but again the results were blurry. I’m the singular, the forms largely look like the infinitive and in the plural the forms were identical to the future tense.

That gave me this idea: the future tense shifts to the subjunctive and the is replaced by the periphrastic construction of “go + infinitive”. Does this seem reasonable?

2) The speakers of Túrnnan live in Austria and are largely bilingual. Given this, I’d like to incorporate some german syntax, particularly placing the main verb finally in periphrastic constructions and also in subordinate clauses. Thoughts? Am I pushing the realism here?
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Fluffy8x » Thu 26 Apr 2018, 20:27

Wondering how I should do the joint agent/patient/tense conjugation on verb roots in levian10. For reference, levian10 is a triconsonantal root language in which the consonants of a root can be reördered for inflectional purposes. 75 (5 each for agent/patient [0, 1, 2, 3 prox, 3 obv; number marked elsewhere] × 3 for tense) different forms is quite tedious to do by hand, so perhaps I could delegate the work to a mathematical function. Roots also have a gender in (Z ∩ [-13, 13])3, and right now I don't really have plans for that other than for adjectives and adverbs, but I could factor that into verb conjugation.
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