Yay or Nay?

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Solarius
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Solarius » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 19:32

Chagen wrote:My latest lang, Sunago, is very heavily inspired by Japanese.

BUT. I want to make some things different. How about having subject/object markers (like japanese <ga> and <o>), that also encode definiteness? In other words, they act as articles and case markers. I'm also thinking of having the topic-marker do this.

An example:

Ena lo neruti.
[Ena lo neru-ti]
[Child TOPIC.INDEF run-PROG]
"A child is running"

Ena ke neruti.
[child TOPIC-DEF run-PROG]
"The child is running"
I'm not quite clear on what you mean. If you mean fusional particles that encode for all four possible combinations of case and definiteness, then I vote yes. I actually do something similar with aspect and evidentiality in one of my languages.
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Chagen
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Chagen » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 19:36

Uh, yeah, basically. I'm not sure what confusing about my example.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ànradh » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 19:39

Maximillian wrote:Why not? How do you say "I am at home", "I was at home" and "I will be at home"?
1SG.at-NOM home-ACC *am
1SG.at-NOM home-ACC *was
1SG.at-NOM home-ACC *will.be
*I'm not sure how I'll be marking TAM, so the latter two are probably not that helpful.
I have also toyed with the idea of simply not having a verb 'to be' but I kept confusing myself...
Sin ar Pàrras agus nì sinne mar a thogras sinn. Choisinn sinn e agus ’s urrainn dhuinn ga loisgeadh.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Solarius » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 19:41

Chagen wrote:Uh, yeah, basically. I'm not sure what confusing about my example.
Sorry, I thought you might have meant that, say, the nominative could only be definite and the accusative could be indefinite.
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Omzinesý
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Omzinesý » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 20:27

Chagen wrote:
An example:

Ena lo neruti.
[Ena lo neru-ti]
[Child TOPIC.INDEF run-PROG]
"A child is running"
Can a topic be indefinite? If it means something like "as for" it must be known.
What about coding genericity instead?

But that sounds good, yay!
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Chagen
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Chagen » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 21:06

"Topic" in Sunago is heavily conflated with "subject". They are different, but quite often the topic is simply the subject of the clause.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Trailsend » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 21:56

Would it be more useful to call it the subject, then? What behavior makes it more topic-like than subject-like?
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Chagen
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Chagen » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 22:36

Well, the topic and subject can be different:

Ena ke misuu da nomino.
[Child TOPIC.DEF shoe-PLURAL SUB white]

"As for the child, their shoes are white".
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Visinoid » Thu 12 Jan 2012, 23:28

Chagen wrote:Uh, yeah, basically. I'm not sure what confusing about my example.
There's nothing confusing. I say "yay" to your idea, hold on it. :P
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by thetha » Fri 13 Jan 2012, 01:39

Having the uvular trill in a new conlang of mine. Yay or Nay?
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Chagen
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Chagen » Fri 13 Jan 2012, 03:08

GOGOGOGOGOGOGO
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Visinoid » Fri 13 Jan 2012, 03:19

Theta wrote:Having the uvular trill in a new conlang of mine. Yay or Nay?
Yay, just yay. Everyone's just getting the alveolar one lately. :|
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ànradh » Fri 13 Jan 2012, 10:10

Visinoid wrote:Yay, just yay. Everyone's just getting the alveolar one lately. :|
I have it, unvoiced, but still. :p
Sin ar Pàrras agus nì sinne mar a thogras sinn. Choisinn sinn e agus ’s urrainn dhuinn ga loisgeadh.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by cromulant » Fri 13 Jan 2012, 18:41

smrk wrote:So I was thinking last night about this phenomenon in Czech where the auxiliary verb marking the second person singular in the past tense gets reduced and stuck on the end of the first word (since the past tense auxiliary always has to go in second place). That means, for instance, that "Co jsi dělal" (What did you do) becomes "Cos dělal", "Věděl jsi to" (You knew it) becomes "Věděls to", etc. I've only seen the auxiliary get reduced when the first word in the sentence is a verb or a pronoun, but it strikes me as not a huge leap to have this happen to ordinary nouns. I was inspired to imagine a language where a similar auxiliary verb had reduced down into a suffix stuck on the end of noun phrases to indicate the person, which along with some sort of morphological change to the verb would mark the past tense.

I basically thought this was the greatest idea I'd ever had and I had to incorporate it into my conlang, which I haven't actually really started yet, just thought about. I'm completely a n00b, though, so I don't trust my judgement just yet. What does everyone think?
Sounds like it could be cool, but more information is required:

-So you'd do this with all persons, not just 2.SG?
-Which auxiliary verbs does this apply to?
-What's the language's word order? Include the position of the auxiliary verb in your description.

Also, a gloss of the Czech would be nice.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by thetha » Sat 14 Jan 2012, 06:08

Should I have classifiers in Giamulu or not?
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Post by Solarius » Sat 14 Jan 2012, 13:54

Theta wrote:Should I have classifiers in Giamulu or not?
Yes!
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Omzinesý
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Omzinesý » Sat 14 Jan 2012, 18:01

Theta wrote:Should I have classifiers in Giamulu or not?
Not so simple.
Is your language going to have other morphological markings?
Where and when are you going to code the classifiers?

Yes, of course, all markers are nice!
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by thetha » Sat 14 Jan 2012, 19:41

There's very few, it's mostly isolating. There's a plural marker on nouns and there's a few markers on the verbs for mood that I haven't quite worked out. That's it though.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Visinoid » Sat 14 Jan 2012, 22:25

Theta wrote:Should I have classifiers in Giamulu or not?
What kind? By example, I find the Japanese ones funny, but useless: it's redundant information.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by thetha » Sun 15 Jan 2012, 00:14

They're kind of like the measure words of Chinese or the classifiers in Vietnamese. Basically the way they work is similar to adjectives. Let's say there's a classifier for animate entities i.e. animals, people, and weather or something. This would go in front of all root nouns that pertain to that type of entity. However, there could be more than one classifier per root, like if you had the inanimate objects classifier modifying the word for person it could mean 'statue' or 'drawing of a person'. Not all classifiers could go on any root, so they aren't as free as adjectives and they're more or less a closed class.
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