Con-Script Development Centre

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
User avatar
Fluffy8x
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon 28 Apr 2014, 05:38
Contact:

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Fluffy8x » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 01:30

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Sun 07 Jan 2018, 04:01
...which is a modified Latin alphabet.
No, it's not.
an siina levian t'isorakateez
User avatar
Thrice Xandvii
darkness
darkness
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:13
Location: Carnassus

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 02:49

Fluffy8x wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 01:30
No, it's not.
Gonna assume you are being sarcastic... somehow?

Cuz, if you aren't, I just ask you to look in the spoiler:
Spoiler:
Image


The letters in the pink are either Latin letters (or numbers) with no modifications, or very mild modifications like flips, rotations, removal of a dot, adding a line or doubling the letter. The curved shapes in the upper right are either long-s or a j with no dot. The letters in green are just taken whole cloth from other common symbols: zodiac, section breaks, currency, Greek letters, etc. That leaves only 10 other symbols... and one of those is a swastika!

So, tell me again how it isn't modified Latin? Cuz it pretty much is.
Image
User avatar
Fluffy8x
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon 28 Apr 2014, 05:38
Contact:

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Fluffy8x » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 03:38

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 02:49
Fluffy8x wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 01:30
No, it's not.
Gonna assume you are being sarcastic... somehow?

Cuz, if you aren't, I just ask you to look in the spoiler:
Spoiler:
Image


The letters in the pink are either Latin letters (or numbers) with no modifications, or very mild modifications like flips, rotations, removal of a dot, adding a line or doubling the letter. The curved shapes in the upper right are either long-s or a j with no dot. The letters in green are just taken whole cloth from other common symbols: zodiac, section breaks, currency, Greek letters, etc. That leaves only 10 other symbols... and one of those is a swastika!

So, tell me again how it isn't modified Latin? Cuz it pretty much is.
I think you mean Latin-inspired, then. Some of the letters look like Latin letters, and some of them even match up (<n b h y z l>), but others don't sound like what they look like (<ɑ d µ s o c ə> are pronounced /f p ɹ ʒ w i u/), so I wouldn't consider it a modified Latin script.
an siina levian t'isorakateez
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 6117
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Toma-ʾEzra lit Vṛḵaža

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Ahzoh » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 03:49

Their phonetic values don't have to match up for it to be considered to a modified Latin alphabet.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Šat Vṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
Thrice Xandvii
darkness
darkness
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:13
Location: Carnassus

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 04:30

Ahzoh wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 03:49
Their phonetic values don't have to match up for it to be considered to a modified Latin alphabet.
My thoughts precisely. I mean, if that weren't the case then kanji as used in Japanese wouldn't be considered related to Chinese characters because many of them are now pronounced very differently.
Image
User avatar
sevenorbs
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun 09 Nov 2014, 23:28

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by sevenorbs » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 07:41

Is there any proper way to start establishing a neat documentation of script?

So someone asked me for details of my script but I find that I don't even know how to start explaining this. Like, I can list all of the alphabet but I'm not so sure what to tell after that. It's been years of me developing and making changes of my script but shame that I have never considered to make a well explained documentation. Any ideas, since I have never/rarely see script documentation before?
User avatar
Thrice Xandvii
darkness
darkness
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:13
Location: Carnassus

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 08:21

What kind of script do you have that defies description? It would seem to me that most types should be fairly easy to discuss in generalities, at least...
Image
User avatar
lsd
greek
greek
Posts: 865
Joined: Fri 11 Mar 2011, 21:11
Contact:

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by lsd » Sun 14 Jan 2018, 08:50

The descriptions are more synchonic than diachronic...
The functioning of this writing dedicated to this language is interesting, and practical...
Kinships are putative and indicative, and, in terms of constructed languages, a kind of self-celebration...
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 6117
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Toma-ʾEzra lit Vṛḵaža

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Ahzoh » Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:16

sevenorbs wrote:
Sun 14 Jan 2018, 07:41
Any ideas, since I have never/rarely see script documentation before?
You can take a look at Omniglot for how they describe various writing systems.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Šat Vṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
User avatar
Thrice Xandvii
darkness
darkness
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:13
Location: Carnassus

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:27

lsd wrote:
Sun 14 Jan 2018, 08:50
The descriptions are more synchonic than diachronic...
The functioning of this writing dedicated to this language is interesting, and practical...
Kinships are putative and indicative, and, in terms of constructed languages, a kind of self-celebration...
...what does any of this mean in the context of this discussion?
Image
User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 6117
Joined: Sun 20 Oct 2013, 01:57
Location: Toma-ʾEzra lit Vṛḵaža

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Ahzoh » Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:37

It would appear he is giving examples of how to describe the writing system.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Šat Vṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
clawgrip
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 06:33
Location: Tokyo

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by clawgrip » Mon 15 Jan 2018, 15:06

No, it has nothing to do with what's being said. The question was how to describe a script; putative and indicative kinships which are a kind of self-celebration have nothing to do with the question. Unless, of course, this is a reply to some other post, in which case I am mistaken.

Anyway, to answer the question, first, list the base letters and describe their pronunciations and graphical/positional relationships with other letters, if any (if they link together, or if they have initial/final/etc. forms.

Then list the modifying signs, if any, their pronunciations or how they modify the base letters, etc., and how they interact with other letters or signs, etc.

Might I suggest my own description of the Khmer alphabet as an example of an in-depth description of a script?
User avatar
sevenorbs
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun 09 Nov 2014, 23:28

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by sevenorbs » Mon 15 Jan 2018, 17:09

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Sun 14 Jan 2018, 08:21
What kind of script do you have that defies description? It would seem to me that most types should be fairly easy to discuss in generalities, at least...
clawgrip wrote:
Mon 15 Jan 2018, 15:06
Anyway, to answer the question, first, list the base letters and describe their pronunciations and graphical/positional relationships with other letters, if any (if they link together, or if they have initial/final/etc. forms.

Then list the modifying signs, if any, their pronunciations or how they modify the base letters, etc., and how they interact with other letters or signs, etc.

Might I suggest my own description of the Khmer alphabet as an example of an in-depth description of a script?
Well it's fairly easy to tell what it is, but I'm kinda stuck on what to do with all of these alphabet or "how to play this script"-question thing. I'll try to explain what I know:

What I have here is a simple alphabet with a strict stroke order governs on how to write. Because of the stroke order, there's some kind of rules on what may and may not be joined as a single stroke or unified glyph. The alphabet mostly looks similar one another and one could identify what things are by looking the surrounding character or examine what strokes on how is that written. The problem here that I'm not quite sure on how to start making a breakdown of those rules since I intuitively doing this. Well I already noticed that there are some kind of trend/pattern on what and what not, which maybe I'd decide to rigorously look on it later.

That resource you linked is useful, I gotta look for it more.
User avatar
Rum_Ham
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 29 Dec 2017, 19:12

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Rum_Ham » Mon 15 Jan 2018, 17:43

I think you may need to closely look at the rules and figure out the pattern first. If you're doing it intuitively, great, but you'll have a really hard time describing something you only know through intuition.

Can you post a few samples of your script and some characters that can and can't go together?
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 907
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Dezinaa » Fri 23 Mar 2018, 03:36

I spent this afternoon trying to update my Otvei script. Here is what the old version looks like:

Image

And here's the new version:

Image

It now has glyphs of equal height. The dots are circular, and the spaces are narrower. The curved strokes resemble how the glyphs would be written by hand.

I think this version looks better, but unfortunately it takes forever to write. The old version is a type-able font, but a font for the new version would be nearly impossible to make.
clawgrip
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 06:33
Location: Tokyo

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by clawgrip » Fri 23 Mar 2018, 05:01

I actually think the original variable height one looks pretty good, but I think these could easily coexist as just different styles of the same script.

What would make it impossible to make a font?
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 907
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Dezinaa » Fri 23 Mar 2018, 05:34

clawgrip wrote:
Fri 23 Mar 2018, 05:01
I actually think the original variable height one looks pretty good, but I think these could easily coexist as just different styles of the same script.

What would make it impossible to make a font?
Each glyph represents a syllable, including onset and coda consonants. They all have to fit together nicely. If I made curved strokes, they wouldn't fit together. I would have to individually draw each possible glyph, and even then, I wouldn't be able to quickly type it.
clawgrip
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 06:33
Location: Tokyo

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by clawgrip » Fri 23 Mar 2018, 13:59

Image
Unur mat pungkabu egu rĭnerdalu ḅim xudenang.
Nothing is impossible if you try hard (enough).

I never thought I would be able to make a font of this cursive script, and yet, here it is.
User avatar
OTʜᴇB
roman
roman
Posts: 955
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 10:59
Location: SW England

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by OTʜᴇB » Fri 23 Mar 2018, 21:55

You can make a syllabary very easy to type with opentype rules and things. You'd add it as a features file to the font, and put all your substitutions in there, so you'd type "twonk", but when you hit the k at the end, the text turns into your whole syllable character. Well, what you'd more likely see is "t", "tw", <character for syllable "two">, <character for syllable "twon">, <character for syllable "twonk">. I found this wonderful tutorial series that goes through the process and explains various cool features. That link will drop you right on the one that explains exactly the feature you'd need. I imagine clawgrip could probably go into much more depth than I can.
:con: : Current Project

BTW I use Arch
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 907
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: Con-Script Development Centre

Post by Dezinaa » Sat 24 Mar 2018, 01:18

clawgrip wrote:
Fri 23 Mar 2018, 13:59
Image
Unur mat pungkabu egu rĭnerdalu ḅim xudenang.
Nothing is impossible if you try hard (enough).

I never thought I would be able to make a font of this cursive script, and yet, here it is.
I have to say, it has nice kerning. Is it an alphabet or something else?
OTʜᴇB wrote:
Fri 23 Mar 2018, 21:55
You can make a syllabary very easy to type with opentype rules and things. You'd add it as a features file to the font, and put all your substitutions in there, so you'd type "twonk", but when you hit the k at the end, the text turns into your whole syllable character. Well, what you'd more likely see is "t", "tw", <character for syllable "two">, <character for syllable "twon">, <character for syllable "twonk">. I found this wonderful tutorial series that goes through the process and explains various cool features. That link will drop you right on the one that explains exactly the feature you'd need. I imagine clawgrip could probably go into much more depth than I can.
Ooh, I'll have to try that. Thanks for the resource!
Post Reply