Silvish

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Re: Silvish

Post by Dormouse559 » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 07:35

It took me a while to get to it, but here is part 2 of the nature vocabulary, plants! And this also happens to be the 100th reply to the thread! :mrgreen: There are six sections: trees, flowers, fruits, vegetables, Silvish flora and other. For Silvish flora, I linked images of the plants in a few entries.


Edelweiss has a deep cultural significance for Silvia and is one of the country's official symbols. It's thought that the five-petaled flowers on the flag represent edelweiss. There is also a large number of - often poetic - names for the flower. Some are used across the Silvish-speaking area, but others are unknown outside their own secluded valleys. I will list the four best-known names.

Besides that, a couple of the more interesting nouns are bomau (apple) and vimbaa (grape). Bomau originated as a wordplay in Old Silvish, when malo meant either "apple" or "bad". In writings, the phrase buon' malo, lit. "good apple" or "good bad" started to appear to contrast with the "bad" meaning of malo on its own. And that evolved into the modern term.

Silvish shows its Germanic influence in vimbaa, which is a calque of the Germanic words for "grape" and can be traced back to Proto-Germanic *wīnabasją. Vimbaa is the most common word for "grape", but uva is sometimes used to lend a poetic sound to works; it is preferred in mythology, religion and symbolic contexts.



Ambre [ˈõː.bɾə] m. - Tree

bomelier [bɔ.məˈliː] m. - apple tree
cerizier [ɕə.ɾɪˈziː] m. - cherry tree
chonne [ˈtɕɔː.nə] m. - oak
cocotier [kɔ.kɔˈtiː] m. - coconut tree
ïe [eː(.ə)] m. - yew (OBL: ivi)
palmier [paˈmiː] m. - palm tree
sequoia (simpre-virda) [səˈko̯ɔː.ɪ̯a (ˈsẽ.pɾə ˈveːɾ.da)] f. - sequoia, Sequoia sempervirens
siezun [siˈzõː] m. - willow


Flur [ˈfloː] f. - Flower

garre [ˈgaː.rə] m. - oleander
lavenghla [laˈvãː.gla] f. - lavender
lieg [ˈliː] m. - lily (OBL: liegli)
narcisse [naˈɕe.sə] m. - daffodil
pevugna [pəˈvoː.ɲa] f. - peony
rosa [ˈrɔ.za] f. - rose
tulipan [tʊ.lɪˈpõː] m. - tulip
violeta [vɪ̯ɔˈlɛ.ta] f. - violet


Fruit [ˈfɾo̯e] m. - Fruit

ananàs [a.ŋaˈŋas(ə)] m. - pineapple
arangza [aˈɾõː.dʑa] f. - orange
baa [ˈbaː.a] f. - berry
bannana [baˈnaː.ŋa] f. - banana
bomau [bɔˈmaːo̯] m. - apple (OBL: bomeli)
ceriza [ɕəˈɾeː.za] f. - cherry
chovera [tɕɔˈvɛː.ɾa] f. / pempun [pãˈpõː] m. - pumpkin
picha [ˈpe.tɕa] f. - peach
tomata [tɔˈma.ta] f. - tomato
vimbaa [vẽˈbaː.a] f. / uva [oː.va] f. - grape


Legume [ləˈgoː.mə] m. - Vegetable

articzot [a.tɪˈɕɔ] m. - artichoke
au [ˈaːo̯] m. - garlic (OBL: egli)
carota [kaˈɾɔ.ta] f. - carrot
chaul [ˈtɕaːo̯] m. - cabbage
fazaul [faˈzaːo̯] m. - bean
letuga [ləˈtoː.ga] f. - lettuce
nave [ˈnaː.və] m. - radish
ognun [ɔˈɲõː] m. - onion
patata [paˈta.ta] f. - potato
quombre [ˈko̯õː.bɾə] m. - cucumber


Silvish Flora

avet [aˈvɛ] m. - fir
avogzun [a.vɔˈdʑõː] m. - blueberry
blancheta [blõˈtɕɛ.ta] f. / inmortela [ẽ.mɔˈtɛː.la] f. / flur d'amur [ˈfloː daˈmoː] f. / edelvais [ə.dəˈvae̯s(ə)] m. - edelweiss
fae [ˈfaː(.ə)] m. - beech
flama de nïe [ˈflaː.ma də ˈneː(.ə)] f. / rododendre [rɔ.dɔˈdãː.dɾə] m. - rhododendron
gensiana [dʑãˈse̯aː.ŋa] f. - gentian
mioce [ˈme̯ɔ.ɕə] m. - larch
opigna [ɔˈpeː.ɲa] f. / picea [pɪˈɕɛː.a] f. - spruce
pannichard [pa.nɪˈtɕaːɾ] m. - alpine sea holly, Eryngium alpinum
pin [ˈpẽː] m. - pine


Other

blae [ˈblaː(.ə)] m. - wheat (OBL: blavi)
erba [ˈɛːɾ.ba] f. - grass
grana [ˈgɾaː.ŋa] f. - seed
maïz [maˈeː] m. - corn, maize
raviessa [raˈvi.sa] f. - root
ris [ˈre] m. - rice
sule·nïe [sʊ.ləˈneː(.ə)] m. / dint d'leün [ˈdẽ dləˈõː] f. - dandelion
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Re: Silvish

Post by qwed117 » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 14:13

Is it even possible for me to express how much I love this language, without dying? [<3]


Great work as always.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
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Re: Silvish

Post by Egerius » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 14:45

qwed117 wrote:Is it even possible for me to express how much I love this language, without dying? [<3]
If I could learn Selvesc instead of French and get away with it, I'd be happy.
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Re: Silvish

Post by Dormouse559 » Fri 29 Jul 2016, 20:07

qwed117 wrote:Is it even possible for me to express how much I love this language, without dying? [<3]
Egerius wrote:If I could learn Selvesc instead of French and get away with it, I'd be happy.
Aww, thank you so much! [:3] Excuse me for a moment. My room just filled up with warm fuzzies.
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Re: Silvish

Post by Lao Kou » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 03:01

Dormouse559 wrote:Excuse me for a moment. My room just filled up with warm fuzzies.
Image
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
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Re: Silvish

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 17:35

Dormouse559 wrote:It took me a while to get to it, but here is part 2 of the nature vocabulary, plants! And this also happens to be the 100th reply to the thread! :mrgreen: There are six sections: trees, flowers, fruits, vegetables, Silvish flora and other. For Silvish flora, I linked images of the plants in a few entries.
No worries, and congratulations!
Dormouse559 wrote:
Spoiler:
Edelweiss has a deep cultural significance for Silvia and is one of the country's official symbols. It's thought that the five-petaled flowers on the flag represent edelweiss. There is also a large number of - often poetic - names for the flower. Some are used across the Silvish-speaking area, but others are unknown outside their own secluded valleys. I will list the four best-known names.

Besides that, a couple of the more interesting nouns are bomau (apple) and vimbaa (grape). Bomau originated as a wordplay in Old Silvish, when malo meant either "apple" or "bad". In writings, the phrase buon' malo, lit. "good apple" or "good bad" started to appear to contrast with the "bad" meaning of malo on its own. And that evolved into the modern term.

Silvish shows its Germanic influence in vimbaa, which is a calque of the Germanic words for "grape" and can be traced back to Proto-Germanic *wīnabasją. Vimbaa is the most common word for "grape", but uva is sometimes used to lend a poetic sound to works; it is preferred in mythology, religion and symbolic contexts.
Very interesting stuff! This time around, my favorite words were probably "ïe", "lieg", "ceriza", "chovera", "au", "fazaul", "quombre", "fae", "mioce", and "erba", apart from "bomau" and "vimbaa", of course!
qwed117 wrote:Is it even possible for me to express how much I love this language, without dying? [<3]


Great work as always.
Egerius wrote:If I could learn Selvesc instead of French and get away with it, I'd be happy.
[+1] (No offense to French, of course!)
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Re: Silvish

Post by qwed117 » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 18:39

Are there any words from poma, or mattiana?
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
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Re: Silvish

Post by Dormouse559 » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 19:38

Lao Kou wrote:trouble_with_tribbles.jpg
My thoughts exactly.
shimobaatar wrote:chovera
I like this one, too. It's cognate with Spanish calavera "skull". Semantic drift ftw!
shimobaatar wrote: [+1] (No offense to French, of course!)
Always like me some French.
qwed117 wrote:Are there any words from poma, or mattiana?
I can say with near certainty Silvish has nothing from mattiana. I'm less sure about poma. I put bomau in the language early on, so I never really thought about poma too much. But it might be inherited with its general "fruit" meaning and get used in expressions like French pomme de terre "potato" and pomme de pin "pinecone".
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Re: Silvish

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 30 Jul 2016, 22:15

Dormouse559 wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:chovera
I like this one, too. It's cognate with Spanish calavera "skull". Semantic drift ftw!
Cool! Now I like it even more.
Dormouse559 wrote:
shimobaatar wrote: [+1] (No offense to French, of course!)
Always like me some French.
[:D]
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Re: Silvish

Post by Dormouse559 » Mon 01 Aug 2016, 08:16

After this conversation, I spent my free time today translating the Gen 1 Pokémon starters. I'm unsure how "canon" these names are. I don't know why Nintendo would invest in a market no more than a few thousand strong, especially when most Silvish speakers are at least bilingual in French. So if these names are actually used in world, maybe they're fan translations.

What to do about gender assignment and declension was a question I had to answer. These choices would probably be complicated if I wanted to make these names the "official" Nintendo ones. But for now, I will have all Pokémon names be in the masculine gender, regardless of what nouns they are composed of. They will decline for number and case based on the final noun or adjective in the name (e.g. NOM: mecha, Salamecha -> OBL: méch, Salaméch). If a name doesn't end in a noun or adjective, it is invariable.

Bulbasaur - Granozaure
[gɾa.ŋɔˈzaːo̯.ɾə]
etymology: grana "seed" + dinosaure "dinosaur" + <z> because 90s


Ivysaur - Erbizaure
[ə.bɪˈzaːo̯.ɾə]
erba "grass" / erbivore "herbivore" + dinosaure


Venusaur - Dionozaure
[dɪ̯ɔ.ŋɔˈzaːo̯.ɾə]
dionea "Venus flytrap" + dinosaure


Charmander - Salamecha
[sa.laˈmɛ.tɕa]
salamandra "salamander" + mecha "wick"; cf. Fr. Salamèche


Charmeleon - Chametizun
[tɕa.mə.tɪˈzõː]
chameleün "chameleon" + tizun "firewood"


Charizard - Flamazert ~ Bruclazert
[fla.maˈzɛɾ] ~ [bɾʊ.klaˈzɛɾ]
flama "flame" + lazert "lizard" ~ bruclâ "to burn" + lazert


Squirtle - Armatuga
[a.maˈtoː.ga]
armaüra "armor" + tartuga "turtle/tortoise"


Wartortle - Luetatuga
[lʊ̯ə.taˈtoː.ga]
luetâ "to fight" + tartuga


Blastoise - Torretuga
[tɔ.rəˈtoː.ga]
torrela "turret" + tartuga


I've got two possibilities for Charizard as you can see above; I don't know which one to choose. I like Bruclazert for fully including lazert. But I kind of like the sound of Flamazert better.

I'll add more Pokémon names here as I come up with them:
Spoiler:
Caterpie - Refuola
[rəˈfuː.la]
ressuola "caterpillar" + fuol "crazy"

Metapod - Crisolidda
[kɾɪ.sɔˈleː.da]
crisalidda "chrysalis" + solidde "solid"

Butterfree - Papaglala
[pa.paˈʎaː.la]
parpaglun "butterfly" + ala "wing"

Weedle - Agurva
[aˈgoːɾ.va]
agugla "needle" + larva "larva"

Kakuna - Cocuna
[kɔˈkoː.ŋa]
pseudo-feminization of cocun "cocoon"; more expected would be *coconna

Beedrill - Percelun
[pə.ɕəˈlõː]
perczâ "to drill" + fosselun "hornet"
Last edited by Dormouse559 on Sat 06 Aug 2016, 20:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silvish

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 03 Aug 2016, 15:48

Very cool names!
Dormouse559 wrote:So if these names are actually used in world, maybe they're fan translations.
[+1] That's a cool idea.
Dormouse559 wrote:+ <z> because 90s
[xD]
Dormouse559 wrote: I've got two possibilities for Charizard as you can see above; I don't know which one to choose. I like Bruclazert for fully including lazert. But I kind of like the sound of Flamazert better.
I'm not sure which I like better, honestly.
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Re: Silvish

Post by alynnidalar » Wed 03 Aug 2016, 18:16

I concur, they're pretty great. I think I like the sound of Bruclazert more than Flamazert, actually! But I don't have much familiarity with Silvish in general, so I don't have the same "ear" for it that you do.
Dormouse559 wrote:So if these names are actually used in world, maybe they're fan translations.
It's the same for the Tirina names I was translating. I've concluded there's a cottage industry in fan translations of videogames to Tirina, to explain why I keep doing videogame-related translations! There's something quite interesting I find in it, it's a fascinating intersection of cultures. I find myself asking a lot of the same questions that real-world videogame translators must ask themselves--do I literally translate all these things word-for-word, do I "massage" them to make more sense in culture I'm translating to, do I completely rewrite what I'm translating as if it was written in Tirina for a Tirina-speaking audience to begin with?

A long way to say that I like seeing other people doing the same stuff, and facing some of the same questions about how it would work for real. [:D]
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Re: Silvish

Post by ixals » Thu 04 Aug 2016, 14:07

First of all, I love your conlang! It seems really realistic because of its spelling and its unpredictable pronunciation (for me at least [:D]). I like the latest vocabulary lists you posted a lot as well!

Regarding the Pokémon names: Thank you for translating some names! [<3] I really like them, especially Dionozaure, Torretuga and Crisolidda. I also prefer Flamazert because of how it sounds.
Dormouse559 wrote:I don't know why Nintendo would invest in a market no more than a few thousand strong, especially when most Silvish speakers are at least bilingual in French.
There might be a parallel universe which has tens of millions of Silvish speakers. You never know. [xP]
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Re: Silvish

Post by qwed117 » Thu 04 Aug 2016, 17:03

ixals wrote:First of all, I love your conlang! It seems really realistic because of its spelling and its unpredictable pronunciation (for me at least [:D]). I like the latest vocabulary lists you posted a lot as well!

Regarding the Pokémon names: Thank you for translating some names! [<3] I really like them, especially Dionozaure, Torretuga and Crisolidda. I also prefer Flamazert because of how it sounds.
Dormouse559 wrote:I don't know why Nintendo would invest in a market no more than a few thousand strong, especially when most Silvish speakers are at least bilingual in French.
There might be a parallel universe which has tens of millions of Silvish speakers. You never know. [xP]
Torretuga is probably my fave. I'm so choosing him!
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
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Re: Silvish

Post by Dormouse559 » Thu 04 Aug 2016, 22:29

shimobaatar wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:+ <z> because 90s
[xD]
It had to be done!

alynnidalar wrote:It's the same for the Tirina names I was translating. I've concluded there's a cottage industry in fan translations of videogames to Tirina, to explain why I keep doing videogame-related translations!
That's a great idea. I wonder if there are any real-world examples of such a thing.
alynnidalar wrote:There's something quite interesting I find in it, it's a fascinating intersection of cultures. I find myself asking a lot of the same questions that real-world videogame translators must ask themselves--do I literally translate all these things word-for-word, do I "massage" them to make more sense in culture I'm translating to, do I completely rewrite what I'm translating as if it was written in Tirina for a Tirina-speaking audience to begin with?
And then there's the phonological aspect. A lot of reduction/elision goes on when a syllable loses stress in Silvish, so if I want to use a word in unstressed position, I have to make sure it will still be recognizable. Oh, and I'm pretty sure there's a 10-character limit on Pokemon names in the video games, so I've been trying to adhere to that as well.

ixals wrote:First of all, I love your conlang! It seems really realistic because of its spelling and its unpredictable pronunciation (for me at least [:D]). I like the latest vocabulary lists you posted a lot as well!
Thank you! [:)]
ixals wrote:Regarding the Pokémon names: Thank you for translating some names! [<3] I really like them, especially Dionozaure, Torretuga and Crisolidda.
Crisolidda was one of the harder ones to figure out because I couldn't think of a word to mix with crisalidda, but everything clicked when I noticed solidde.
ixals wrote:There might be a parallel universe which has tens of millions of Silvish speakers. You never know. [xP]
Alright, they're official in that universe. [:D]

qwed117 wrote:Torretuga is probably my fave. I'm so choosing him!
Here you go!

shimobaatar wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote: I've got two possibilities for Charizard as you can see above; I don't know which one to choose. I like Bruclazert for fully including lazert. But I kind of like the sound of Flamazert better.
I'm not sure which I like better, honestly.
alynnidalar wrote:I concur, they're pretty great. I think I like the sound of Bruclazert more than Flamazert, actually!
ixals wrote:I also prefer Flamazert because of how it sounds.
Opinion is split, and I'm still no closer to deciding. I'll let you know if I make up my mind.
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Re: Silvish

Post by qwed117 » Fri 05 Aug 2016, 21:27

Dormouse559 wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote: I've got two possibilities for Charizard as you can see above; I don't know which one to choose. I like Bruclazert for fully including lazert. But I kind of like the sound of Flamazert better.
I'm not sure which I like better, honestly.
alynnidalar wrote:I concur, they're pretty great. I think I like the sound of Bruclazert more than Flamazert, actually!
ixals wrote:I also prefer Flamazert because of how it sounds.
Opinion is split, and I'm still no closer to deciding. I'll let you know if I make up my mind.
Well, for what it's worth there can be corruption in the names to make them sound better.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
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Re: Silvish

Post by Dormouse559 » Sat 06 Aug 2016, 07:05

qwed117 wrote:Well, for what it's worth there can be corruption in the names to make them sound better.
True, but I haven't reached that level of the language, and I might never. It's hard enough to figure out style for a conlang, let alone how much a word or phrase can be massaged to fit that style.
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Re: Silvish

Post by Ælfwine » Sat 06 Aug 2016, 14:23

Could we have a side-by-side comparison between Silvish and other Romance languages?
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Re: Silvish

Post by Dormouse559 » Sat 06 Aug 2016, 18:52

Sure, what kind of comparison were you thinking of? A text? A wordlist?
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Re: Silvish

Post by Ælfwine » Sat 06 Aug 2016, 20:27

Dormouse559 wrote:Sure, what kind of comparison were you thinking of? A text? A wordlist?
Perhaps some small sample sentences?
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