Quick Diachronics Challenge

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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Wed 25 Apr 2018, 15:56

ixals wrote:
Tue 24 Apr 2018, 22:31
Now to declaring the winner, well, I'm actually on the fence. While vo1dwalk3r was the closest in the beginning, sangi worked out a lot of the groupings and sound changes, but then Nortaneous comes pretty much out of nowhere with a reconstructed *q which I was trying to get everyone to find out so badly! :roll: [:D] I would say it's between Nortaneous and sangi and if Nortaneous is up for it, I would propose that he could do the next challenge since he hasn't done one yet [:)]
I'd say that Nort should definitely be put forward as winner and come up with the next challenge.

Apart from the *s, his reconstruction seems closer than mine, especially regarding vowel length and the final *q. On top of that, he also took the time to reconstruct the second word (which was really only there as a hint if I remember correctly), and was almost spot on there (making the same mistake with *s, and having in place of *q in the last syllable, but pretty much got everything else right).


Inkcube-Revolver wrote:
Tue 24 Apr 2018, 18:51
Y'know, it's pretty crazy how, despite the hectic lifestyles and long stretches of inactivity, users still keep returning to this thread, putting in their reconstructions through good and bad weather. In fact, I find it so admirable, I would like to set a day sometime in the summer where as many users as possible (that are interested, of course) are at work to reconstruct a protolang challenge all at once.

Now, I don't know if this is something that can be done here on CBB, or if we'd have to go elsewhere like Skype or Twitch or something, but I'd definitely want to do a live competition of sorts. It'd be all for sport, of course, and can be a nifty way for some of the users on this site to get to know each other and gain a sense of good ol' camaraderie.
There can even be teams pitted against each other that work together to reconstruct the protowords first. Not sure how it'd work, but if anyone's game, I'll be more than happy to figure it out.

You can PM me through CBB, or if there's enough people interested, I'll make a new thread dedicated to how we go about this.

Best regards, and good luck on finals to our collegefolk and high schoolers,

- Inkcube Revolver
I'd love to do something like this! [:D]
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Davush » Thu 26 Apr 2018, 14:14

Although I've never won one of these challenges, I also like the sound of Inkcube's idea. I'd definitely join in.

I also hope I can participate in the next challenge.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Fri 27 Apr 2018, 02:24

Is it cool if I rip this off and start a thread of my own? I have a family I think might be fun.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 27 Apr 2018, 12:15

Why would you start a third thread with the same topic? Did I miss something?
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Davush » Fri 27 Apr 2018, 12:20

CarsonDaConlanger wrote:
Fri 27 Apr 2018, 02:24
Is it cool if I rip this off and start a thread of my own? I have a family I think might be fun.
I think diachronic challenges are better kept in this thread. People can easily see who the previous winner was and who's making the next challenge, and who is participating if it's all together. (Plus yeah, why make a third thread for the same thing?)
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Fri 27 Apr 2018, 12:47

Hmmm, I think I'd largely agree with Davush and Creyeditor. If you started a separate thread just for the family you have in mind, following the same general pattern hear of "reconstruct the proto-word(s)", and someone wins, then either that thread becomes identical to this one (in which case, eventually, the same person might win in both threads so they should just be merged), or it's going to go silent as people return to this thread.

Having two challenge threads would be nice, but as Inkcube sort of mentioned, some of us already have trouble making time for just a single challenge.

However, what I will say is that if Nort doesn't want to come up with a challenge, then I'd be happy to pass things over to CarsonDaConlanger. It's entirely up to Nort though.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 27 Apr 2018, 13:27

Also, this is already the second thread. The first one was already kind of abandoned.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Sun 29 Apr 2018, 23:29

sangi39 wrote:
Fri 27 Apr 2018, 12:47
Hmmm, I think I'd largely agree with Davush and Creyeditor. If you started a separate thread just for the family you have in mind, following the same general pattern hear of "reconstruct the proto-word(s)", and someone wins, then either that thread becomes identical to this one (in which case, eventually, the same person might win in both threads so they should just be merged), or it's going to go silent as people return to this thread.

Having two challenge threads would be nice, but as Inkcube sort of mentioned, some of us already have trouble making time for just a single challenge.
Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't fully understand what this was: I thought it was one guy giving people more words, not that the winner gets to go.
sangi39 wrote:
Fri 27 Apr 2018, 12:47
However, what I will say is that if Nort doesn't want to come up with a challenge, then I'd be happy to pass things over to CarsonDaConlanger. It's entirely up to Nort though.
Works for me!
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Mon 30 Apr 2018, 19:36

CarsonDaConlanger wrote:
Sun 29 Apr 2018, 23:29
sangi39 wrote:
Fri 27 Apr 2018, 12:47
Hmmm, I think I'd largely agree with Davush and Creyeditor. If you started a separate thread just for the family you have in mind, following the same general pattern hear of "reconstruct the proto-word(s)", and someone wins, then either that thread becomes identical to this one (in which case, eventually, the same person might win in both threads so they should just be merged), or it's going to go silent as people return to this thread.

Having two challenge threads would be nice, but as Inkcube sort of mentioned, some of us already have trouble making time for just a single challenge.
Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't fully understand what this was: I thought it was one guy giving people more words, not that the winner gets to go.
Ohhh, well that makes sense [:)] Yeah, it's a "winner goes next" type of game, but who wins and how long people have to work on it is up to the person setting the challenge (some people take into account whether people work out the branching, other's just go by how close the reconstruction is, for example).
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Thu 10 May 2018, 23:51

Since it's been a while, do y'all mind if I take over? Not to sound impatient.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Mon 14 May 2018, 00:58

CarsonDaConlanger wrote:
Thu 10 May 2018, 23:51
Since it's been a while, do y'all mind if I take over? Not to sound impatient.
It has been about 3 weeks. If nobody else would object (including Nort) then I'd be happy to see a new challenge go up [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Wed 16 May 2018, 14:58

Since it's been a while with no objections, I'm gonna go ahead and post.
Here are the words in no particular order:
Spoiler:
A ['sa:.jaṷk]
B ['ɕi.tɕ:æŋ]
C ['ʃɛ.kw:ǝ]
D ['aʃ.ɔk:]
E ['ɕi.cɛk]
F ['çi:.k:ǝ]
G ['saj.xɔ:]
H ['ʧɑ:.go]
I [ʃa'ɣɯk]
J ['ʃæ.kxu]
K ['a.zi.ɣɒk]
L [tsa:.ɣɒp]
Here is a map of the languages. (I couldn't get it to turn right side up, so you may want to rotate your screen. Sorry.)
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Wed 16 May 2018, 18:50

CarsonDaConlanger wrote:
Wed 16 May 2018, 14:58
Since it's been a while with no objections, I'm gonna go ahead and post.
Here are the words in no particular order:
Spoiler:
A ['sa:.jaṷk]
B ['ɕi.tɕ:æŋ]
C ['ʃɛ.kw:ǝ]
D ['aʃ.ɔk:]
E ['ɕi.cɛk]
F ['çi:.k:ǝ]
G ['saj.xɔ:]
H ['ʧɑ:.go]
I [ʃa'ɣɯk]
J ['ʃæ.kxu]
K ['a.zi.ɣɒk]
L [tsa:.ɣɒp]
Here is a map of the languages. (I couldn't get it to turn right side up, so you may want to rotate your screen. Sorry.)
As a rough guess:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[ˈtseːkːʌkʷ] > [ceːkːʌk]    > [ˈtʃɛː.kːo]   > [ˈtʃɛː.kːu]   > [ˈʃæ.kːu]     > [ˈʃæ.kxu]
                                                            > [ˈtʃɛ.kʷːu]   > [ˈʃɛ.kʷːə]
                                            > [ˈtʃɛː.ko]    > [ˈtʃæː.go]    > [ˈtʃɑː.go]
                            > [ˈciː.kːʌk]   > [ˈtɕi.kːɛk]   > [ˈɕi.cːɛk]    > [ˈɕi.cɛk]
                                                                            > [ˈɕi.tɕːæʔ] > [ˈɕi.tɕːæŋ]
                                            > [ˈciː.kːʌ]    > [ˈciː.kːə]
             > [ˈtseː.gʌkʷ] > [ˈtseː.ɣʌwkʷ] > [aˈtsiː.ɣɑwk] > [aˈdziː.ɣɑwk] > [ˈa.zi.ɣɒk]
                                            > [ˈtsaː.ɣʌwkʷ] > [ˈtsaː.ɣɑwp]  > [ˈtsaː.ɣɒp]
                                                            > [ˈsaː.ɣau̯k]   > [ˈsaː.jau̯k]
                                                                            > [ˈhaː.ʒau̯k] > [ˈaʃ.ɔkː]
                            > [ˈseː.kɤk]    > [seˈɡɯk]      > [seˈɡɯk]      > [sɛˈɡɯː]
                                                            > [ʃeˈɣɯk]      > [ʃaˈɣɯk]
                                            > [ˈseː.kok]    > [ˈseː.xok]    > [ˈsaj.xoː]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Wed 16 May 2018, 19:15

sangi39 wrote:
Wed 16 May 2018, 18:50
As a rough guess:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[ˈtseːkːʌkʷ] > [ceːkːʌk]    > [ˈtʃɛː.kːo]   > [ˈtʃɛː.kːu]   > [ˈʃæ.kːu]     > [ˈʃæ.kxu]
                                                            > [ˈtʃɛ.kʷːu]   > [ˈʃɛ.kʷːə]
                                            > [ˈtʃɛː.ko]    > [ˈtʃæː.go]    > [ˈtʃɑː.go]
                            > [ˈciː.kːʌk]   > [ˈtɕi.kːɛk]   > [ˈɕi.cːɛk]    > [ˈɕi.cɛk]
                                                                            > [ˈɕi.tɕːæʔ] > [ˈɕi.tɕːæŋ]
                                            > [ˈciː.kːʌ]    > [ˈciː.kːə]
             > [ˈtseː.gʌkʷ] > [ˈtseː.ɣʌwkʷ] > [aˈtsiː.ɣɑwk] > [aˈdziː.ɣɑwk] > [ˈa.zi.ɣɒk]
                                            > [ˈtsaː.ɣʌwkʷ] > [ˈtsaː.ɣɑwp]  > [ˈtsaː.ɣɒp]
                                                            > [ˈsaː.ɣau̯k]   > [ˈsaː.jau̯k]
                                                                            > [ˈhaː.ʒau̯k] > [ˈaʃ.ɔkː]
                            > [ˈseː.kɤk]    > [seˈɡɯk]      > [seˈɡɯk]      > [sɛˈɡɯː]
                                                            > [ʃeˈɣɯk]      > [ʃaˈɣɯk]
                                            > [ˈseː.kok]    > [ˈseː.xok]    > [ˈsaj.xoː]
Interesting. A few of your guess are quite close, but the grouping is off by a lot and other reconstructions off.
Also, bless your heart for assuming I have that much work ethic, but there's nowhere near the number of intermediate forms you put!
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » Wed 16 May 2018, 22:24

My guess is: ˈtsæk:ɛkʷ . Sorry for not having enough time for a full reconstruction at the moment.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Thu 17 May 2018, 14:16

Creyeditor wrote:
Wed 16 May 2018, 22:24
My guess is: ˈtsæk:ɛkʷ . Sorry for not having enough time for a full reconstruction at the moment.
Hmm, you and Sangi seem to be on the same page, and moving sort of in the right direction, but not quite there yet.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » Fri 18 May 2018, 23:34

Wow, I just spent about 2 hours on this, but while I was working on it, the CBB logged me out so when I tried to submit it, so I lost everything. I might try again later.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 19 May 2018, 01:02

Here's my second, less detailed attempt.

I've assumed that word "L" has initial stress. Also, one of the words on the map isn't listed in the original post, so I've labeled it "M".
Spoiler:
Group 1 (Northeast):
B ['ɕi.tɕːæŋ]
E ['ɕi.cɛk]
F ['çiː.kːǝ]
< *[ˈɕi.kːɛk] (Proto-Northeast)

Group 2 (Northwest):
C ['ʃɛ.kʷːǝ]
H ['tʃɑː.go]
J ['ʃæ.kxu]
< *[ˈtʃa.kːo] (Proto-Northwest)

PNE *[ˈɕi.kːɛk]
PNW *[ˈtʃa.kːo]
< *[tsaj.kːɔk] (Proto-North)

Group 3 (Southwest):
I [ʃa'ɣɯk]
M [sɛˈgɯː]
< *[sajˈgɯːk] (Proto-Southwest)

Group 4 (Southeast):
A ['saː.jaṷk]
D ['aʃ.ɔkː]
G ['saj.xɔː]
K ['a.zi.ɣɒk]
L [ˈtsaː.ɣɒp]
< *[ˈsaj.xau̯kː] (Proto-Southeast)

PSW *[sajˈgɯːk]
PSE *[ˈsaj.xau̯kː]
< *[ˈsaj.kuːk] (Proto-South)

PN *[ˈtsaj.kːɔk]
PS *[ˈsaj.kuːk]
< *[ˈtsaj.kːok] (Proto-World)
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Sat 19 May 2018, 03:37

shimobaatar wrote:
Fri 18 May 2018, 23:34
Wow, I just spent about 2 hours on this, but while I was working on it, the CBB logged me out so when I tried to submit it, so I lost everything. I might try again later.
Dang man, it's things like that that cause me to save after inserting a comma in a word doc. You can never be too careful!
shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 19 May 2018, 01:02
Here's my second, less detailed attempt.

I've assumed that word "L" has initial stress. Also, one of the words on the map isn't listed in the original post, so I've labeled it "M".
Spoiler:
Group 1 (Northeast):
B ['ɕi.tɕːæŋ]
E ['ɕi.cɛk]
F ['çiː.kːǝ]
< *[ˈɕi.kːɛk] (Proto-Northeast)

Group 2 (Northwest):
C ['ʃɛ.kʷːǝ]
H ['tʃɑː.go]
J ['ʃæ.kxu]
< *[ˈtʃa.kːo] (Proto-Northwest)

PNE *[ˈɕi.kːɛk]
PNW *[ˈtʃa.kːo]
< *[tsaj.kːɔk] (Proto-North)

Group 3 (Southwest):
I [ʃa'ɣɯk]
M [sɛˈgɯː]
< *[sajˈgɯːk] (Proto-Southwest)

Group 4 (Southeast):
A ['saː.jaṷk]
D ['aʃ.ɔkː]
G ['saj.xɔː]
K ['a.zi.ɣɒk]
L [ˈtsaː.ɣɒp]
< *[ˈsaj.xau̯kː] (Proto-Southeast)

PSW *[sajˈgɯːk]
PSE *[ˈsaj.xau̯kː]
< *[ˈsaj.kuːk] (Proto-South)

PN *[ˈtsaj.kːɔk]
PS *[ˈsaj.kuːk]
< *[ˈtsaj.kːok] (Proto-World)
Man you're really really close on a few of your proto-forms as well as your proto-world. However your grouping is off (subfamilies didn't necessarily form homologous blocks, so don't trust areal grouping too much). I will say you grouped NE correctly, and almost got the proto-form correct. The four proto-langs come directly from proto-world though.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by CarsonDaConlanger » Tue 22 May 2018, 15:14

At the end of the day tomorrow, I won't be able to post very often, so I will declare a winner then, and pass this off. Thanks to those of you who participated!
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