Quick Diachronics Challenge

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Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34

So, I revamped my grouping and reconstruction a bit. I feel like I am making progress, although the proto word might not be the most realistic guess.
Spoiler:
Image



Proto-word: ****ʛwaŋwar


---Proto-golden: ***ɠo'ŋar
--Pre-proto-yellow: **go'ʔa:r
Proto-yellow: *gu'ʔa:r
ɦu'ʔar
gu'ʔa:r

--Pre-Proto-grey: **ɠa'ŋgar̝
-Proto-grey: *ɠa'ŋgaʒ
ka'gaʒ
k'a'ŋas
ŋã'gas
ɦa'ŋgaz


---Proto-dark green: **k'i'uɔ:r
-Proto-orange: *k'iwɔ:r
k'i'jɔ:r
kə'wɔ:r

-Proto-light green: *'k'uol
'k'u:l
'k'uol


---Proto-purple: ***ʛwar
--Pre-Proto-black: **'b'awr
-Proto-black: *'b'aw
'baw
'p'aw

--Proto-pink: **q'ɔ:r
-Proto-blue: *q'aur
q'aur
'ʔauʁ

-Proto-red: *qɔ:r
'qɔ:ar
'ʔa:r


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GrandPiano
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GrandPiano » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:35

Is it [kʼuo̯l] or [kʼu̯ol]?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Fri 10 Aug 2018, 18:38

GrandPiano wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:35
Is it [kʼuo̯l] or [kʼu̯ol]?
Ah, yeah, it'd be [kʼuo̯l] [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41

Finally had the time to really give this a shot. I'm not very confident about the conclusions I reached, but this was fun anyway.
Spoiler:
Group 1 (Small Island):
-[ˈbaw]
-[ˈp'aw]
-[ˈk'uo̯l]
-[ˈk'uːl]
< *[ˈkʷ'oːl] (Proto-Small Island)

*[ˈkʷ'oːl] > *[ˈk'oːl] > [ˈk'uo̯l]
> [ˈk'uːl]
> *[ˈp'oːɫ] > *[ˈp'uːw] > [ˈp'aw]
> [ˈbaw]

Group 2 (Southwest):
-[ˈq'au̯r]
-[ˈqɔːa̯r]
-[ˈʔau̯ʁ]
-[ˈʔaːr]
< *[ˈq'oːr] (Proto-Southwest)

*[ˈq'oːr] > *[ˈq'uːr] > [ˈq'au̯r]
> *[ˈqoːr] > *[ˈquːr] > *[ˈqau̯r] > [ˈʔau̯ʁ]
> *[ˈqɔːr] > *[ˈqaːr] > [ˈʔaːr]
> [ˈqɔːa̯r]

PSI *[ˈkʷ'oːl]
PSW *[ˈq'oːr]
< *[ˈk'oːr] (Proto-West)

*[ˈk'oːr] > *[ˈq'oːr]
> *[ˈkʷ'oːr] > *[ˈkʷ'oːl]

Group 3 (Northwest):
-[k'iˈjɔːr]
-[kə'wɔːr]
< *[k'yˈɰɔːr] (Proto-Northwest)

*[k'yˈɰɔːr] > *[k'iˈɰɔːr] > [k'iˈjɔːr]
> *[kʉˈɰɔːr] > [kə'wɔːr]

Group 4 (Southeast):
-[kaˈgaʒ]
-[k'aˈŋas]
-[ŋãˈgas]
-[ɦaˈŋgaz]
< *[k'aŋˈgaz] (Proto-Southeast)

*[k'aŋˈgaz] > *[gaŋˈgaz] > [ɦaˈŋgaz]
> *[gãˈgaz] > [ŋãˈgas]
> *[kaŋˈgaz] > [kaˈgaʒ]
> *[k'aŋˈŋaz] > [k'aˈŋas]

Group 5 (Northeast):
-[ɦuˈʔar]
-[guˈʔaːr]
< *[guˈʔar] (Proto-Northeast)

*[guˈʔar] > [guˈʔaːr]
> [ɦuˈʔar]

PNW *[k'yˈɰɔːr]
PSE *[k'aŋˈgaz]
PNE *[guˈʔar]
< *[k'oŋˈɣoz] (Proto-East)

*[k'oŋˈɣoz] > *[k'õːˈɣor] > *[k'uˈɰɔr] > *[k'yˈɰɔr] > *[k'yˈɰɔːr]
> *[guˈɰar] > *[guˈar] > *[guˈʔar]
> *[k'oŋˈgoz] > *[k'aŋˈgaz]

PW *[ˈk'oːr]
PE *[k'oŋˈɣoz]
< *[kˈow̃ˈw̃oz] (Proto-World)

*[kˈow̃ˈw̃oz] > *[k'oŋˈɣʷoz] > *[k'oŋˈɣoz]
> *[kˈowˈwor] > *[kˈoˈwor] > *[ˈk'oːr]
Looks like the board messed up some of my formatting, too. That's a shame, but I don't know what to do about it, so I'm just going to leave it.

(Post #10020).
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GrandPiano
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GrandPiano » Tue 14 Aug 2018, 18:25

Here's my guess:
Spoiler:
Image

Proto-word: *gaˈŋkʷaz

Proto-red: *gaˈŋgaz
Proto-orange: *ˈqawar
Proto-green: *gəˈkʷar
Proto-purple: *ˈgʷal

Code: Select all

Red:
gaˈŋkʷaz > gaˈŋgʷaz > gaˈŋgaz

gaˈŋgaz > ɣaˈŋgaz > ɦaˈŋgaz
        > gãˈgaz > gãˈgas > ŋãgas
                          > gaˈŋas > kaˈŋas > kʼaˈŋas
                 > gaˈgaz > kaˈgaz > kaˈgaʒ

Orange:
gaˈŋkʷaz > gaˈŋgʷaz > gãˈgʷaz > gaˈgʷaz > gaˈgʷar > gaˈwar > kaˈwar > ˈkawar > ˈqawar

ˈqawar > ˈqɔwar > ˈqɔːar
       > ˈqaur > ˈqʼaur
       > ˈʔawar > ˈʔaur > ˈʔauʁ
                > ˈʔaːr

Green:
gaˈŋkʷaz > gãˈkʷaz > gaˈkʷaz > gaˈkʷar > gəˈkʷar

gəˈkʷar > gəwˈkʷar > gəwˈkar > guˈkar > guˈʔar > ɣuˈʔar > ɦuˈʔar
                                               > guˈʔaːr
        > gəˈgʷar > gəˈwar > kəˈwar > kəˈwɔːr
                  > gəˈgar > gəˈɰar > kəˈɰar > kəˈjar > kiˈjar > kʼiˈjar > kʼiˈjɔːr

Purple:
gəˈkʷar > gəˈgʷar > gəˈwar > ˈgwar > ˈgʷar > ˈgʷal

ˈgʷal > ˈkʷal > ˈkʷʼal > ˈkʷʼol > ˈkʷʼul > ˈkʼul > ˈkʼuːl
                                                   ˈkʼuːl > ˈkʼuol
      > ˈbal > ˈpal > ˈpʼal > ˈpʼaɫ > ˈpʼaw
             > ˈbaɫ > ˈbaw
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 21:18

Creyeditor:
Spoiler:
Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
So, I revamped my grouping and reconstruction a bit. I feel like I am making progress, although the proto word might not be the most realistic guess.
Spoiler:
Image


All of your first level groupings (black, light green, orange, yellow, red, and blue) are correct, and your grey group is a second level grouping, as is your pink group. The light green group and the orange group are related, just not in the way you've currently proposed.
Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
Proto-word: ****ʛwaŋwar
I think this might be further off that your last guess.


Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
---Proto-golden: ***ɠo'ŋar
--Pre-proto-yellow: **go'ʔa:r
Proto-yellow: *gu'ʔa:r
ɦu'ʔar
gu'ʔa:r
Your Proto-Yellow is insanely close, but you've gotten further away the further back you've gone.


Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
--Pre-Proto-grey: **ɠa'ŋgar̝
-Proto-grey: *ɠa'ŋgaʒ
ka'gaʒ
k'a'ŋas
ŋã'gas
ɦa'ŋgaz
While a valid grouping, the proto-word is somewhat far off. The general structure is right, and you are right about the r > sibilant change, and the presence of a velar nasal, but the initial sound is wrong, as is the final (and the medial, but less so).


Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
---Proto-dark green: **k'i'uɔ:r
-Proto-orange: *k'iwɔ:r
k'i'jɔ:r
kə'wɔ:r
Again, a correct grouping, and somewhat close on the proto-word.


Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
-Proto-light green: *'k'uol
'k'u:l
'k'uol
As with Proto-Yellow, insanely close on this one.


Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
---Proto-purple: ***ʛwar
--Pre-Proto-black: **'b'awr
-Proto-black: *'b'aw
'baw
'p'aw
I think you've picked up on where the labial initial came from, but not the labiovelar final. The vowel is right though, and your Proto-Purple is right in regards to its CwaC structure.


Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
--Proto-pink: **q'ɔ:r
-Proto-blue: *q'aur
q'aur
'ʔauʁ
Proto-Blue (or what would properly be a late stage of it) is spot on [:D]


Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 19:34
-Proto-red: *qɔ:r
'qɔ:ar
'ʔa:r
Almost there with Proto-Red as well, and Proto-Pink by extension. It's the vowel quality that's wrong in Proto-Red and Proto-Pink.




Shimobaatar:
Spoiler:
shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
Finally had the time to really give this a shot. I'm not very confident about the conclusions I reached, but this was fun anyway.
Hope I can respond to this properly despite the formatting going awry [:)]


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
Spoiler:
Group 1 (Small Island):
-[ˈbaw]
-[ˈp'aw]
-[ˈk'uo̯l]
-[ˈk'uːl]
< *[ˈkʷ'oːl] (Proto-Small Island)

*[ˈkʷ'oːl] > *[ˈk'oːl] > [ˈk'uo̯l]
> [ˈk'uːl]
> *[ˈp'oːɫ] > *[ˈp'uːw] > [ˈp'aw]
> [ˈbaw]
Spot on on the first and second level groupings for the insular languages. The vowels are off, but you've correctly spotted where the labial initials and the /w/ come from in the western two languages.


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
Group 2 (Southwest):
-[ˈq'au̯r]
-[ˈqɔːa̯r]
-[ˈʔau̯ʁ]
-[ˈʔaːr]
< *[ˈq'oːr] (Proto-Southwest)

*[ˈq'oːr] > *[ˈq'uːr] > [ˈq'au̯r]
> *[ˈqoːr] > *[ˈquːr] > *[ˈqau̯r] > [ˈʔau̯ʁ]
> *[ˈqɔːr] > *[ˈqaːr] > [ˈʔaːr]
> [ˈqɔːa̯r]
Again, a correct second level grouping, but you appear to have tripped up on the first level groupings. Similar to Creyeditor, the only problem with your Proto-Southwest reconstruction is the quality of the vowel.


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
PSI *[ˈkʷ'oːl]
PSW *[ˈq'oːr]
< *[ˈk'oːr] (Proto-West)

*[ˈk'oːr] > *[ˈq'oːr]
> *[ˈkʷ'oːr] > *[ˈkʷ'oːl]
Unfortunately, this is where you've made an incorrect guess on this third level grouping. It's not a valid one, I'm afraid.


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
Group 3 (Northwest):
-[k'iˈjɔːr]
-[kə'wɔːr]
< *[k'yˈɰɔːr] (Proto-Northwest)

*[k'yˈɰɔːr] > *[k'iˈɰɔːr] > [k'iˈjɔːr]
> *[kʉˈɰɔːr] > [kə'wɔːr]
These two are most closely related to each other than to other languages, so a correct first level grouping, but the proto-word is fairly off other than the final VC sequence and the ejective initial.


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
Group 4 (Southeast):
-[kaˈgaʒ]
-[k'aˈŋas]
-[ŋãˈgas]
-[ɦaˈŋgaz]
< *[k'aŋˈgaz] (Proto-Southeast)

*[k'aŋˈgaz] > *[gaŋˈgaz] > [ɦaˈŋgaz]
> *[gãˈgaz] > [ŋãˈgas]
> *[kaŋˈgaz] > [kaˈgaʒ]
> *[k'aŋˈŋaz] > [k'aˈŋas]
This is a correct second level grouping, and the proto-word is almost spot on, bar the medial consonant.


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
Group 5 (Northeast):
-[ɦuˈʔar]
-[guˈʔaːr]
< *[guˈʔar] (Proto-Northeast)

*[guˈʔar] > [guˈʔaːr]
> [ɦuˈʔar]
Spot on as a first level grouping and the proto-word too.


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
PNW *[k'yˈɰɔːr]
PSE *[k'aŋˈgaz]
PNE *[guˈʔar]
< *[k'oŋˈɣoz] (Proto-East)

*[k'oŋˈɣoz] > *[k'õːˈɣor] > *[k'uˈɰɔr] > *[k'yˈɰɔr] > *[k'yˈɰɔːr]
> *[guˈɰar] > *[guˈar] > *[guˈʔar]
> *[k'oŋˈgoz] > *[k'aŋˈgaz]
This is... almost right. As with your other third level grouping, you've but less related languages into the same group, which leads me to...


shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 17:41
PW *[ˈk'oːr]
PE *[k'oŋˈɣoz]
< *[kˈow̃ˈw̃oz] (Proto-World)

*[kˈow̃ˈw̃oz] > *[k'oŋˈɣʷoz] > *[k'oŋˈɣoz]
> *[kˈowˈwor] > *[kˈoˈwor] > *[ˈk'oːr]
... Because you've gotten some of the third level groupings wrong, I feel like you've come to a close, but incorrect reconstruction. You've got the CV...VC structure right and the placement of stress, as well as the initial ejective /k'/, but you've got the final consonant and the vowel qualities wrong. You do, however, seem to have realised that the medial is... "somewhat of a weak consonant" and "related to nasality in some way".




GrandPiano:
Spoiler:
GrandPiano wrote:
Tue 14 Aug 2018, 18:25
Here's my guess:
Spoiler:
Image
Spot on on the highest (fourth) level grouping, i.e. the north vs. south divide, as well as the third level groupings you've gone for (purple, red, and yellow).

GrandPiano wrote:
Tue 14 Aug 2018, 18:25
Proto-word: *gaˈŋkʷaz

Proto-red: *gaˈŋgaz
Proto-orange: *ˈqawar
Proto-green: *gəˈkʷar
Proto-purple: *ˈgʷal
I'd be tempted to say that as of yet, this reconstruction is the least correct, but not through lack of trying, as I'll discuss below.


GrandPiano wrote:
Tue 14 Aug 2018, 18:25

Code: Select all

Red:
gaˈŋkʷaz > gaˈŋgʷaz > gaˈŋgaz

gaˈŋgaz > ɣaˈŋgaz > ɦaˈŋgaz
        > gãˈgaz > gãˈgas > ŋãgas
                          > gaˈŋas > kaˈŋas > kʼaˈŋas
                 > gaˈgaz > kaˈgaz > kaˈgaʒ
As with Creyeditor and Shimobaatar, you've got the grouping right as a whole, but internally it's a bit off. Some of those languages are more closely related to each other, and less so to others, than the way they're grouped here.


GrandPiano wrote:
Tue 14 Aug 2018, 18:25

Code: Select all

Orange:
gaˈŋkʷaz > gaˈŋgʷaz > gãˈgʷaz > gaˈgʷaz > gaˈgʷar > gaˈwar > kaˈwar > ˈkawar > ˈqawar

ˈqawar > ˈqɔwar > ˈqɔːar
       > ˈqaur > ˈqʼaur
       > ˈʔawar > ˈʔaur > ˈʔauʁ
                > ˈʔaːr
Again, a correct overall grouping, but as with Shimobaatar's guess, it's internally wrong. I think you've picked up on the loss of the medial consonant in this particular branch, though.
GrandPiano wrote:
Tue 14 Aug 2018, 18:25

Code: Select all

Green:
gaˈŋkʷaz > gãˈkʷaz > gaˈkʷaz > gaˈkʷar > gəˈkʷar

gəˈkʷar > gəwˈkʷar > gəwˈkar > guˈkar > guˈʔar > ɣuˈʔar > ɦuˈʔar
                                               > guˈʔaːr
        > gəˈgʷar > gəˈwar > kəˈwar > kəˈwɔːr
                  > gəˈgar > gəˈɰar > kəˈɰar > kəˈjar > kiˈjar > kʼiˈjar > kʼiˈjɔːr
First person to get this second level grouping, so awesome, and the internal branching after that is spot on. I think you've spotted, as have Creyeditor and Shimobaatar, that the medial consonant weakens in the western languages, but the proto-word here is still off.
GrandPiano wrote:
Tue 14 Aug 2018, 18:25

Code: Select all

Purple:
gəˈkʷar > gəˈgʷar > gəˈwar > ˈgwar > ˈgʷar > ˈgʷal

ˈgʷal > ˈkʷal > ˈkʷʼal > ˈkʷʼol > ˈkʷʼul > ˈkʼul > ˈkʼuːl
                                                   ˈkʼuːl > ˈkʼuol
      > ˈbal > ˈpal > ˈpʼal > ˈpʼaɫ > ˈpʼaw
             > ˈbaɫ > ˈbaw
Correct grouping and branching, and you've spotted where the labials comes from (a labialised initial), and the final /w/ (velarised /l/), but the labialisation isn't that old.




I think overall, Shimobaatar is probably the closest in having a correct overview of the groupings at a lower level, probably tying with Creyeditor in terms of a proto-word (if we take Creyeditor's original proposal), while GrandPiano has grouped the languages together correctly at their highest level
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 23:44

So, this is my third and last guess. I hope I did better with the grouping, I also tried to make some imrovements on the proto-word. I an really uncomfortable with initial voicing, but I still assumed it twice.
Spoiler:
Image
Solid lines are grouping that IINM you already confirmed. Dotted and dashed lines are new proposals.


Proto-word: *q'wakɔr


-----Proto-moss green: *k'uaikɔr
----Pre-Proto-lime: *gua'kor
--Proto-lime: *gu'ʔor
-Proto-yellow: *gu'ʔa:r
ɦu'ʔar
gu'ʔa:r

-Proto-light green: *'k'uol
'k'u:l
'k'uol

----Proto-Brown: *k'aigɔ:r
-Proto-orange: *k'iwɔ:r
k'i'jɔ:r
kə'wɔ:r

---Proto-grey: *k'a'ŋar
-Proto-dark grey: *k'a'ŋaz
ka'gaʒ
k'a'ŋas
--Pre-Proto-light grey: *haŋgaz
-Proto-light grey: *ɦãŋaz
ŋã'gas
ɦa'ŋgaz

-----Proto-purple: *q'war
--Pre-Proto-black: *'p'aɹ
-Proto-black: *'p'aw
'baw
'p'aw


--Pre-proto-Pink: ***q'a:r
--Proto-pink: **q'a:r
-Proto-blue: *q'aur
q'aur
'ʔauʁ

-Proto-red: *qa:r
'qɔ:ar
'ʔa:r
Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 23:59

Ah fudge! Sorry, Creyeditor, I appear to have misspoken. Your purple group wasn't a valid grouping. I know you said it would be your final guess, but I'd like to see what you come up with given that update, and so sorry for the mistake.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GrandPiano » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 04:31

Am I allowed to take inspiration from the others’ reconstructions, or are we not supposed to look at the other guesses until after the correct answer is revealed?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 14:02

GrandPiano wrote:
Sat 18 Aug 2018, 04:31
Am I allowed to take inspiration from the others’ reconstructions, or are we not supposed to look at the other guesses until after the correct answer is revealed?
It's up to you. I divided the replies up so it was more clear who I was talking to, but put them in spoilers in case anyone wanted to work alone.

I tend to try and work on what the OP aims at me, or shares publicly, but other people do work off of responses to other people's stuff, so really it's up to you [:)]
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 22:21

sangi39 wrote:
Fri 17 Aug 2018, 23:59
Ah fudge! Sorry, Creyeditor, I appear to have misspoken. Your purple group wasn't a valid grouping. I know you said it would be your final guess, but I'd like to see what you come up with given that update, and so sorry for the mistake.
Okay, so instead of giving a totally new guess, I wil just modify it slightly below:
Spoiler:
If purple is not a valid grouping than probably all of the island languages form a single second order grouping. This was actually what I though I guessed in my first guess, but I didn't. [:D]
Since all but the orange and yellow languages are part of some second order grouping (either grey, island or pink), this could mean that orange and yellow form a second order grouping. This is really were guessing a proto-form gets hard. The four languages nicely line up with the vowels, but not so much consonant-wise. Since proto-purple is wrong and the island languages also don't go just with the pink languages as I proposed in my first guess, the island languages propaply go with either grey or yellow-orange (called light-orange). Since yellow-orange is geographically closer, I will go with these. So, there is a light orange-island family (called sun). This in turn means that pink and grey go together (called lava).

So, here is my grouping and reconstruction:

Proto-word: *q'wakɔr


----Proto-sun: *k'ukar
---Pre-proto-island: *'k'uhal
--Proto-Island: *'k'waɫ
-Proto-light green: *'k'uol
'k'u:l
'k'uol

-Proto-black: *'p'aw
'baw
'p'aw


---Proto-light orange: *k'uka:r
-Proto-yellow: *gu'ʔa:r
ɦu'ʔar
gu'ʔa:r

--Pre-proto-orange: *k'igɔ:r
-Proto-orange: *k'iɣɔ:r
k'i'jɔ:r
kə'wɔ:r


----Proto-lava: *q'aŋar
---Proto-grey: *k'a'ŋar
-Proto-dark grey: *k'a'ŋaz
ka'gaʒ
k'a'ŋas
--Pre-Proto-light grey: *haŋgaz
-Proto-light grey: *ɦãŋaz
ŋã'gas
ɦa'ŋgaz

---Pre-proto-pink: *q'aɣ̃ar
--Proto-pink: *q'a:r
-Proto-blue: *q'aur
q'aur
'ʔauʁ

-Proto-red: *qa:r
'qɔ:ar
'ʔa:r




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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » Sun 19 Aug 2018, 14:49

Just to clarify, sangi39, what exactly do you mean by "first/second/third level groupings"?
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Sun 19 Aug 2018, 18:14

shimobaatar wrote:
Sun 19 Aug 2018, 14:49
Just to clarify, sangi39, what exactly do you mean by "first/second/third level groupings"?
So, imagine that there's this type of branching:

Proto-ABCD to Proto-AB to A
Proto-ABCD to Proto-AB to B
Proto-ABCD to Proto-CD to C
Proto-ABCD to Proto-CD to D

A and B would form a first level grouping, as would C and D, with Proto-AB and Proto-CD as the proto-languages. AB and CD would then form a second level grouping, with Proto-ABCD as the proto-language. A third level grouping would then be something that descends from something before Proto-ABCD, e.g. Proto-ABCDEF, with Proto-EF as a sister language to Proto-ABCD within that grouping.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Mon 20 Aug 2018, 00:02

Hoping to clarify that last post, since I made it at work:

Image

Effectively the "nth level grouping" is, well, a backwards count of the number of splits between a given language, its relatives, and the proto-language. 1st level groupings have four splits between the languages that make that group and the ultimate proto-language, 2nd level groupings have three splits between the (proto)languages that make that group and the ultimate proto-language, and so on.

Sorry for any confusion there.



For a hint: the divisions between these languages are all binary, and all presented languages are the same age, each experiencing the same number of splits between them and the proto-language as all the other presented languages
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Sun 26 Aug 2018, 12:01

Hoping to hear from Shimobaatar and GrandPiano [:)] I've had a busy week myself, so of course no rush, just hoping there are still people working on this [:)]
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GrandPiano » Sun 26 Aug 2018, 18:43

I’ve been meaning to give it another go, but I’ve been busy lately and haven’t had much time. Hopefully I’ll be able to work on it soon.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Mon 27 Aug 2018, 00:05

GrandPiano wrote:
Sun 26 Aug 2018, 18:43
I’ve been meaning to give it another go, but I’ve been busy lately and haven’t had much time. Hopefully I’ll be able to work on it soon.
Well, as I said, I'm in no rush. Creyeditor has said that they've submitted their final guess, but I'm happy waiting on other guesses to come in, and hope other people are too. I'm hoping to see where people go with the comments I posted before [:)]
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 27 Aug 2018, 00:45

School just started back up for me, so I've been pretty busy too. I'll try to give it another go soon, but if you get tired of waiting, go ahead with whatever you'd like to do.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Kawdek » Tue 28 Aug 2018, 08:04

Oops, I hadn't realized that there was a courtesy/convention about avoiding other people's feedback. If I'm still allowed, here's my attempt at this.
Spoiler:
ˈbaw
ˈp'aw
Proto-West-Island: *ˈp'aw
ˈk'uol
ˈk'uːl
Proto-East-Island: *ˈk'uwl
Proto-Island: *ˈkʷ'əwl

ɦuˈʔar
guˈʔaːr
Proto-Northeast: *ɣuˈʔaːr
k'iˈjɔːr
kəˈwɔːr
Proto-Northwest: *k'ɯˈjɔːr
Proto-North: *k'uˈjaːr

Proto-Marine (aka Proto-Island-North): *ˈkʷ'jərʷ

ˈq'aur
ˈʔauʁ
Proto-Riparian: *ˈq'aur
ˈqɔːar
ˈʔaːr
Proto-Littoral: *ˈqɔar
Proto-South: *ˈqʷ'aur

Proto-West (aka Proto-Marine-South): *ˈqʷ'jarʷ

kaˈgaʒ
k'aˈŋas
Proto-Cape: k'aˈŋaz
ŋãˈgas < ɦãˈgas
ɦaˈŋgaz
Proto-Valley: *ɦaˈŋgaz
Proto-East: *qaˈŋaz

Proto-World (aka Proto-West-East): *qʷ'əˈj̃arʷ
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » Tue 28 Aug 2018, 18:32

Kawdek wrote:
Tue 28 Aug 2018, 08:04
Oops, I hadn't realized that there was a courtesy/convention about avoiding other people's feedback. If I'm still allowed, here's my attempt at this.
As I said to GrandPiano, how much attention, if any, you pay to responses to other people's guesses is entirely up to you. I personally try to ignore them, others don't [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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