Islogian

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All4Ɇn
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 02 Aug 2017, 05:32

Spoiler:
shimobaatar wrote:I assume the situation is <c g ci gi> before back vowels and <ch gh c g> before front vowels, and <s ḑ> word initially, but <ss s> medially, right? But what determines the spelling of /t̻͡s̪/? Etymology?
Yep. I don't know of any words where this happens yet but <ḑ> could theoretically occur medially due to etymology. The vast majority of nouns spell /t̻͡s̪/ with <ţ> while a very small closed number of words use ç.
shimobaatar wrote:Is /ʎː/ <gl> before front vowels but <gli> before back vowels? Similarly, is /ʃ/ <sc> before front vowels but <sci> before back vowels? If that's the case, though, when is it <ş>? And is <sc> just /s̪k/ elsewhere?
<gl sc> follow the same rules as Italian. /ʃ/ is typically only spelled <sc> for etymology while <ş> is used elsewhere although there are a lot of exceptions.
shimobaatar wrote:Do speakers just have to learn when <ch> is /x/ and when it's /k/? Are /gl̪~glˤ/ or /gn/ valid clusters?
<ch> is /k/ before front vowels and /x/ everywhere else. /gl̪ gn/ could definitely exist although I can't think of any nativized words with /gn/ right now.
shimobaatar wrote:What determines the realization of /l̪~lˤ/
/lˤ/ is used if between a back vowel and a front vowel, or between 2 back vowels while /l̪/ is used elsewhere
shimobaatar wrote:Can /s̪/ be geminated in the environment in which it is spelled <ss>? If so, how is that represented?
The correct pronunciation of medial <ss> is technically /s̪ː/ but is often pronounced simply as <s̪>
shimobaatar wrote:So /ɛ ɔ ɑ/ only contrast with /e o ä/ in stressed syllables? Is stress ever marked? Also, are stressed /e o ä/ just <e o a> while /ɛ ɔ ɑ/, which only appear stressed, are <è ò à>, and therefore /ä äː/ can be differentiated orthographically but /ɑ ɑː/ can't? But wait, why is /ɑ/ <a> in "ca", but <à> in "àl" and "hàl"? Is the presence or absence of coda consonants relevant?
Yep. By default words are stressed on the penultimate syllable if ending in a vowel/n/r/s or the final syllable if ending in any other consonant. By default, the stressed vowel is /e o ä/ in open syllables and /ɛ ɔ ɑ/ in closed. If the syllable is stressed elsewhere or uses a different vowel than expect than it is marked.

shimobaatar wrote:Does etymology determine the spelling of /ɨ/? Would, for example, the sequence <cî>, be pronounced as /t͡ʃɨ/ or /kɨ/? So /ɨː/ can never be differentiated from /ɨ/ in writing?
Yep and it would be /t͡ʃɨ/. As /ɨː/ occurs so rarely there's no need for the distinction
shimobaatar wrote:So vowel length is only marked orthographically when it's contrastive/unpredictable? If /ä ɑ/ contrast here, does that mean that monosyllabic words are considered stressed syllables?
Yep
shimobaatar wrote:Why is /iː/ <ì> in "chì" but <ii> in every other example given?
In the others the second <i> is a separate morpheme while in <chì> the vowel is long specifically to avoid confusion with <chi>/
shimobaatar wrote:I'm probably just overthinking all this and expecting everything to make perfect sense when I know full well that natlang orthographies usually don't, and that you're good at making naturalistic orthographies. The noun declension sections have given me even more questions about the language's orthography, but I won't bother you with those.
Thanks! [:D] Hopefully I cleared it up for you
shimobaatar wrote:The instrumental-comitative case is an interesting addition! Do you have any idea what percentage of nouns in the language are in each declension?
Thanks but I'm not sure I understand your question here.
shimobaatar wrote:Just to be clear, what forms are each of these?
Dative/Genitive singular. Bisyllabic nouns stressed on the first often remove the second unstressed vowel.
shimobaatar wrote:I know I said no more questions about the orthography, but I don't see anything about <ů> in this new thread before the first post on irregular nouns. Were these copied from an older thread?
Sorry I don't know how I skipped that. <ů> is used where the pronunciation was once /wo/ before being simplified to /u/.
shimobaatar wrote:Perhaps you meant "suffixes"?
[>_<] How did I mess that up
shimobaatar wrote:Wait, so, once -ior is added to the adjective's dative/genitive stem, how are regular comparatives and superlatives formed?
Another thing I should have mentioned. They're declined the same as regular third declension adjectives
shimobaatar wrote:It would be cool, but I don't know how realistic it is.
Thanks for all the questions and replies [:D]
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All4Ɇn
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 02 Aug 2017, 21:14

Determiners
Cata- Each/Every
Invariable. Becomes Cat' before vowels

Cel- That/Those
Spoiler:
Singular:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Cel; Cella; Cel
*Before vowel: Cel; Cèl; Cel
Dative/Genitive: Cel; Cella; Cel
*Before vowel: Cel; Cèl; Cel

Plural:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Cei; Celle; Celle
*Before vowel: Cegli; Celle; Celle
Dative/Genitive: Cellos; Cellas; Cellas
Ço- This/These
Spoiler:
Singular:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Ço; Ça; Ço
Dative/Genitive: Ço; Ça; Ço

Plural:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Çei; Çe; Çe
Dative/Genitive: Ços; Ças; Ças
Nesc- Some
Invariable

Tot- All (The)
Spoiler:
Singular:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Tot; Tota; Tot
*Before vowel: Tot; Tot'; Tot
Dative/Genitive: Tot; Tota; Tot
*Before vowel: Tot; Tot'; Tot

Plural:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Toti; Tote; Tote
Dative/Genitive: Totos; Totas; Totas
Vren- No/Not One/Not Any
Used with the negative form of the verb
Spoiler:
Singular:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Vren; Vrena; Vren
*Before vowel: Vren; Vrèn; Vren
Dative/Genitive: Vren; Vrena; Vren
*Before vowel: Vren; Vrèn; Vren

Plural:
Nominative/Accusative/Instrumental-Comitative: Vreni; Vrene; Vrene
Dative/Genitive: Vrenos; Vrenas; Vrenas
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Sat 05 Aug 2017, 01:45

Present Tense Verbs
Islogian has 5 different patterns of regular verbs: -are, -ere, -re, and 2 groups of -ire verbs

-Are Verb Endings
1s: -o
2s: -as
3s: -a
1p: -amo
2p: -ate
3p: -an

Stem-Changing Verbs
Seventeen -are verbs undergo a vowel change in the stem whenever the final vowel in the stem is stressed. A sample conjugation using the verb Notare is shown:

1s: Nůto
2s: Nůtas
3s: Nůta
1p: Notamo
2p: Notate
3p: Nůtan

Verbs with this pattern:
Spoiler:
Approvare- Approve
Collare- Glue
Colcarse- Lie Down/Recline (Reflexive)
Desolare- Destroy/Desolate
Dolare- Build
Îgrossare- Thicken
Iocare- Play
Îprovare- Disapprove
Notare- Swim
Provare- Try/Attempt/Test/Prove
Renovare- Renew/Renovate/Restore/Update
Resonare- Echo/Resonate/Ring Out
Rogare- Beg
Rotare- Spin/Roll/Rotate
Sonare- Sound/Ring
Tonare- Thunder
Volare- Fly
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 06 Aug 2017, 02:36

-Ere/-Re Verb Endings
1s: -o
2s: -es
3s: -e
1p: -emo
2p: -ete
3p: -on

Both -ere and -re verbs have the same conjugation endings in the present tense. All -ere verbs whose stems end in -c/-d/-g/-gli/-l/-n change them to
-ci/-ḑ/-gi/-lg/-gli/-gn before forms starting with -o as shown below with Vedere (see)

1s: Veo
2s: Vedes
3s: Vede
1p: Vedemo
2p: Vedete
3p: Veon

In all forms in the present, all -re verbs ending in -ndre change the -nd- to -gn- and all -re verbs ending in -mbre change the -mb- to -m- as shown below in the verb Prendre (take):
1s: Pregno
2s: Pregnes
3s: Pregne
1p: Pregnemo
2p: Pregnete
3p: Pregnon
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Mon 07 Aug 2017, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 06 Aug 2017, 21:04

-Ire Endings 1
Which conjugation an -ire verb takes is not clear from the infinitive. Which pattern a given verb takes has to be memorized, although the conjugation typically lines up with related verbs in other Romance languages

1s: -o
2s: -is
3s: -e
1p: -imo
2p: -ite
3p: -on

A small number of verbs with this pattern undergo stem changes similar to those seen in -ere verbs. The verb Vestire is used as an example below:

1s: Veţţo
2s: Vestis
3s: Veste
1p: Vestimo
2p: Vestite
3p: Veţţon

Verbs with this pattern:
Bollire (Bogli-)- Boil
Consentire (Consenţ-)- Agree/Consent
Îbellire (Îbegli-)- Improve
Îvestire (Îveţţ-)- Invest
Mentire (Menţ-)- Lie
Salire (Sagli-)- Jump
Sentire (Senţ-)- Feel/Smell
Svestire (Sveţţ-)- Undress/Take Off/Unclothe
Vestire (Veţţ-)- Wear/Dress/Put On/Clothe
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 07 Aug 2017, 02:04

-Ire Endings 2
1s: -esco
2s: -esces
3s: -esce
1p: -imo
2p: -ite
3p: -escon
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 07 Aug 2017, 04:25

Irregular Verbs In The Present Tense
Sorry about large number of them. I wish there was an easier way to show them without taking up so much space [:)]. Irregular forms are bolded.

Amblare- Go
Spoiler:
1s: Vado
2s: Vas
3s: Va
1p: Vamo
2p: Vate
3p: Van
Bere- Drink
Spoiler:
1s: Bevo
2s: Beves
3s: Beve
1p: Bevemo
2p: Bevete
3p: Bevon
Cherere- Ask/Request
Spoiler:
1s: Chiero
2s: Chieres
3s: Chiere
1p: Cheremo
2p: Cherete
3p: Chieron
Verbs with this conjugation:
Recherere- Need/Require

Clòre- Close
Spoiler:
1s: Clòdo
2s: Clòdes
3s: Clòde
1p: Clodemo
2p: Clodete
3p: Clòdon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Conclòre- Conclude
Îclòre- Include/Enclose
Sclòre- Exclude/Unlock

Cocere- Cook
Spoiler:
1s: Cůco
2s: Cůces
3s: Cůce
1p: Cocemo
2p: Coçe
3p: Cůcon
Docere- Show
Spoiler:
1s: Důcio
2s: Důces
3s: Důce
1p: Docemo
2p: Doçe
3p: Důcion
Dolere- Hurt/Ache/Have Pain
Spoiler:
1s: Doglio
2s: Důles
3s: Důle
1p: Dolemo
2p: Dolete
3p: Doglion
Dôvere- Must/Have To/Owe
Spoiler:
1s: Devo
2s: Dés
3s: Deve
1p: Dôvemo
2p: Dôvete
3p: Devon
Dure- Carry/Lead
Spoiler:
1s: Duco
2s: Duces
3s: Duce
1p: Ducemo
2p: *Duçe
3p: Ducon
*Ducete in derivative verbs
Verbs with this conjugation:
Spoiler:
Abdure- Abduct
Addure- Present/Bring Forward/Adduce
Condure- Conduct/Lead/Drive/Pilot/Steer
Dedure- Deduce/Infer
Îdure- Persuade/Induce
Întrodure- Insert/Introduce
Perdure- Guide
Produre- Produce/Yield/Bear/Manufacture
Redure- Reduce/Cut/Scale Down
Rîntrodure- Reintroduce/Reinsert
Recondure- Return/Take Back
Reprodure- Reproduce
Retradure- Translate Back
Sedure- Seduce/Beguile
Tradure- Translate
Trasdure- Transduce
Ḑire- Say/Tell
Spoiler:
1s: Ḑico
2s: Ḑices
3s: Ḑice
1p: Ḑicemo
2p: Ḑiçe
3p: Ḑicon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Beḑire- Bless/Consecrate
Contraḑire- Contradict
Malḑire- Curse

Essere- Eat
Spoiler:
1s: Edo
2s: Ès
3s: Èe
1p: Edemo
2p: Eţe
3p: Edon
Estre- Be
Spoiler:
1s: So
2s: Es
3s: È
1p: Somo
2p: Seţe
3p: Son
Fare- Do/Make
Spoiler:
1s: Fo
2s: Fas
3s: Fa
1p: Facemo
2p: Façe
3p: Fan
Verbs with this conjugation:
Desfare- Undo/Untie/Unfasten/Loosen/Unpack
Refare- Redo
Satisfare- Satisfy

Gòre- Enjoy/Rejoice
Spoiler:
1s: Gòdo
2s: Gòdes
3s: Gòde
1p: Godemo
2p: Godete
3p: Gòdon
Havere- Have
Spoiler:
1s: Ho
2s: Has
3s: Ha
1p: Havemo
2p: Havete
3p: Han
Lere- Read
Spoiler:
1s: Lego
2s: Leges
3s: Lege
1p: Legemo
2p: Legete
3p: Legon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Elere- Elect

Morire- Die
Spoiler:
1s: Můro
2s: Můris
3s: Můre
1p: Morimo
2p: Morite
3p: Můron
Movere- Move
Spoiler:
1s: Můvo
2s: Můves
3s: Můve
1p: Movemo
2p: Movete
3p: Můvon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Commovere- Move (Emotionally)/Rouse
Promovere- Promote
Removere- Remove

Odire- Hear
Spoiler:
1s: Òḑo
2s: Òdis
3s: Òde
1p: Odimo
2p: Odite
3p: Òḑon
Plâcere- Be Pleasing To
Spoiler:
1s: Placio
2s: Plâces
3s: Plâce
1p: Plâcemo
2p: Plaçe
3p: Placion
Plòre- Punch
Spoiler:
1s: Plòdo
2s: Plòdes
3s: Plòde
1p: Plodemo
2p: Plodete
3p: Plòdon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Applòre- Applaud
Îplòre- Implode
Splòre- Explode

Plovere- Rain
Spoiler:
3s: Plůve
Pore- Consider To Be
Spoiler:
1s: Pogno
2s: Pones
3s: Pone
1p: Ponemo
2p: Ponete
3p: Pognon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Spoiler:
Appore- Affix/Append
Compore- Compose/Compound/Put Together
Depore- Lay Down/Put Down/Set Aside/Deposit/Depose
Spore- Arrange/Prepare/Organize/Dispose
Espore- Display/Expose/Exhibit/Put Out
Îpore- Impose/Enforce
Oppore- Put Forward/Raise (An Argument)/Oppose
Prepore- Guess/Suppose/Assume
Propore- Suggest/Propose/Put Forward
Repore- Replace/Place Again
Soprepore- Put Something On Top Of Something Else/Superimpose
Soppore- Suspect
Traspore- Transfer/Transpose/Transplant
Pôtere- Can/Be Able To
Spoiler:
1s: Posso
2s: Půs
3s: Può
1p: Pôssemo
2p: Poçe
3p: Posson
Sapere- Know
Spoiler:
1s:
2s: Sas
3s: Sa
1p: Sapemo
2p: Sapete
3p: San
Sedere- Seat/Sit
Spoiler:
1s: Sieḑo
2s: Siedes
3s: Siede
1p: Sedemo
2p: Sedete
3p: Sieḑon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Assedere- Set Down/Place
Possedere- Own/Possess
Resedere- Reside

Tacere- Be Quiet/Silent
Spoiler:
1s: Tacio
2s: Taces
3s: Tace
1p: Tacemo
2p: Taçe
3p: Tacion
Tenere- Hold/Keep
Spoiler:
1s: Tegno
2s: Tienes
3s: Tiene
1p: Tenemo
2p: Tenete
3p: Tegnon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Spoiler:
Astenere- Abstain From/Keep Away From
Attenere- Belong To
Contenere- Contain
Detenere- Detain
Mantenere- Maintain/Keep Up
Ottenere- Get/Obtain
Pertenere- Reach
Retenere- Retain
Sostenere- Support/Sustain
Trare- Draw/Pull/Drag
Spoiler:
1s: Trago
2s: Traies
3s: Traie
1p: Traiemo
2p: Traiete
3p: Tragon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Spoiler:
Astrare- Abstract
Attrare- Attract
Contrare- Tense/Contract/Covenant
Detrare- Deduct
Distrare- Distract/Divert/Amuse
Strare- Mine/Quarry/Extract
Protrare- Prolong/Protract
Retrare- Withdraw/Retract
Sottrare- Subtract
Venire- Come
Spoiler:
1s: Vegno
2s: Vienis
3s: Viene
1p: Venimo
2p: Venite
3p: Vegnon
Verbs with this conjugation:
Spoiler:
Avvenire- Happen/Occur
Contravenire- Contravene
Convenire- Meet Up/Come Together/Convene
Devenire- Become
Intervenire- Intervene
Prevenire- Prevent/Anticipate/Forewarn
Provenire- Originate/Come From/Arise From
Revenire- Come Back/Return
Sovvenire- Rescue
Vôlere- Want
Spoiler:
1s: Voglio
2s: Vůs
3s: Vuò
1p: Vôlemo
2p: Vôlete
3p: Voglion
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Sat 19 May 2018, 17:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Tue 08 Aug 2017, 23:01

Preterite Verbs
Left is for -are verbs, middle is for -ere/-re verbs, right is for -ire verbs. -ndre and -mbre verbs undergo the same stem change in the past.

Regular Endings
1s: -ai/-ei/-ì
2s: -aţi/-iţi/-iţi
3s: -ò/-è/-ì
1p: -àmo/-émo/-ìmo
2p: -aţe/-eţe/-iţe
3p: -aron/-eron/-iron
If the final vowel in the stem of an -ire verb is <e o> it becomes <i u> before the ending -ì

Completely Irregular Verbs
4 verbs are completely irregular in the preterite

Amblare- Go
Spoiler:
1s: Ii
2s: Iţi
3s: Ii
1p: Imo
2p: Iţe
3p: Iron
Dare- Give
Spoiler:
1s: Didi
2s: Diţi
3s: Diè
1p: Demo
2p: Deţe
3p: Dieron
Estre- Be
Spoiler:
1s: Fui
2s: Fuţi
3s: Fu
1p: Fomo
2p: Foţe
3p: Foron
Havere- Have
Spoiler:
1s: Hòi
2s: Hòţi
3s: Hò
1p: Hòmo
2p: Hòţe
3p: Hòron
Irregular Stems
All other irregular verbs are formed by a unique stem followed by the following endings. Many otherwise regular verbs are irregular in the preterite and past participle.
1s: -i
2s: -iţi
3s: -e
1p: -emo (-émo if it would otherwise be identical to the present tense form)
2p: -eţe
3p: -eron
If the final vowel in the stem is <e o> it becomes <i u> before the ending -i. All verbs ending in -ngre use the irregular endings and change the -ng into -ns.

Verbs with this pattern:
Given how many verbs have this pattern, I'm cutting out derivative verbs
Spoiler:
Accendre (Light/Ignite/Turn On): Acces-
Adogre (Add/Augment): Adoss-
Agliere (Choose): Alleg-
Agre (Act/Rob/Steal): Ass-
Alludre (Hint At/Allude To): Allus-
Ardere (Burn): Ars-
Bere: Biv-
Cadere (Fall): Ched-
Capre (Fit In/Go In/Find Room): Chep-
Cedre (Leave): Cess-
Cherere: Cher-
Clòre: Clos-
Cocere: Coss-
Cogliere (Pick Up/Gather/Grasp): Colleg-
Cognoscre (Pick Up/Gather/Grasp): Cognov-
Connettre (Connect): Conness-
Correre (Run): Cors-
Crescre (Grow): Crev-
Decidre (Decide): Decis-
Discutre (Discuss): Discoss-
Dividre (Divide): Divis-
Docere: Doqu-
Dolere: Dol-
Dôvere: Dôv-
Dure: Duss-
Ḑire: Ḑiss-
Esegre (Wish): Esess-
Esprimbre (Express): Espress-
Essere: Ed-
Evadre (Evade): Evas-
Fare: Fec-
Fendre (Cut): Fess-
Figre (Nail): Fiss-
Flettre (Bend/Curve/Flex): Fless-
Fondre (Pour): Fud-
Frigre (Fry/Roast/Grill): Friss-
Gòre: Gos-
Îvadre (Invade): Îvas-
Lere: Less-
Mergre (Dive): Mers-
Mordere (Bite): Mors-
Mettre (Put/Place/Lay): Mis-
Movere: Moss-
Nascre (Be Born): Nasq-
Negligre (Neglect): Negless-
Perdre (Lose): Pers-
Plâcere: Plâqu-
Plòre: Plos-
Plovere: Plou-
Pore: Pos-
Pôtere: Pôt-
Prendre (Take/Get): Pres-
Regre (Rule/Govern): Ress-
Ridere (Laugh): Ris-
Rompre (Break): Rup-
Sapere: Sâp-
Scendre (Come Down/Descend): Sces-
Scrivre (Write): Scriss-
Sedere: Sed-
Soprâvre (Survive): Soprâss-
Stinguere (Put Out/Extinguish): Stins-
Sumbre (Buy/Purchase): Suns-
Ştare (Stay/Stand/Be): Ştet-
Tacere: Taqu-
Tenere: Ten-
Tergre (Clean): Ters-
Tognere (Shave/Shear/Cut): Tos-
Torcre (Twist/Wring/Bend): Tors-
Trare: Trass-
Vedere (See): Vid-
Vencre (Win/Beat/Vanquish): Vic-
Venire: Ven-
Vivre (Live): Viss-
Vôlere: Vôl-
Hopefully I haven't been posting too much. I've been spending a lot of time working on verbs lately and wanted to get what I've made out there [:D]. Let me know if you have any questions
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Mon 14 Aug 2017, 20:37, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Islogian

Post by shimobaatar » Fri 11 Aug 2017, 22:54

All4Ɇn wrote:Thanks! [:D] Hopefully I cleared it up for you
Yes, thank you!
All4Ɇn wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:Do you have any idea what percentage of nouns in the language are in each declension?
Thanks but I'm not sure I understand your question here.
Ah, sorry, I'll try to explain better. So, there are three regular declensions, right? Do 33.3% of regular nouns fit into each declension, or, for example, are 50% of regular nouns in the first declension, with 25% of nouns in the both the second and third declensions? Hopefully that makes sense.

It's a rather strange question, and looking back, I'm not sure what possessed me to ask it. I don't know if people have even calculated this kind of thing for natlangs.
All4Ɇn wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:Just to be clear, what forms are each of these?
Dative/Genitive singular. Bisyllabic nouns stressed on the first often remove the second unstressed vowel.
Ah, sorry, I was referring more to the number of the nouns. The ones that are presented in pairs are singular/plural, I assume, but what about the ones without pairs, like "bàdne", "duccne", and "cabre".
All4Ɇn wrote:Thanks for all the questions and replies [:D]
Thank you for all your answers!

All4Ɇn wrote:Seventeen -are verbs undergo a vowel change in the stem whenever the final vowel in the stem is stressed. A sample conjugation using the verb Notare is shown:
Is the stem change always o > ů in these verbs?
All4Ɇn wrote:Given how many verbs have this pattern, unless you guys would be interested in seeing all of them I'll just post the ones for verbs that are irregular in the present
I'd be interested in seeing all of them, but I don't want to make you compile that whole list.
All4Ɇn wrote:Hopefully I haven't been posting too much. I've been spending a lot of time working on verbs lately and wanted to get what I've made out there [:D]. Let me know if you have any questions
Not at all! I love hearing about your languages. Keep posting as long as you have something you'd like to post. The only question/request I have is that it'd be cool to see some example sentences, if possible.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Sat 12 Aug 2017, 00:38

shimobaatar wrote:It's a rather strange question, and looking back, I'm not sure what possessed me to ask it. I don't know if people have even calculated this kind of thing for natlangs.
Yeah I'm not sure myself. The third declension is a lot more common than it is in Latin as it also applies to the majority of loanwords so I'd imagine it has to be at least 33%.
shimobaatar wrote:Ah, sorry, I was referring more to the number of the nouns. The ones that are presented in pairs are singular/plural, I assume, but what about the ones without pairs, like "bàdne", "duccne", and "cabre".
Oh sorry I should have made that clear. The ones without pairs only change the stem in the singular dative/genitive form. 2 syllable nouns ending in an unstressed VC basically always drop the second vowel. In those without the change, the vowel is stressed in the second syllable, hence no change.
shimobaatar wrote:Is the stem change always o > ů in these verbs?

Yep!
shimobaatar wrote:I'd be interested in seeing all of them, but I don't want to make you compile that whole list.

I've got the whole list. I was just worried about making posts too long. I'll edit them into the post
shimobaatar wrote:Not at all! I love hearing about your languages. Keep posting as long as you have something you'd like to post. The only question/request I have is that it'd be cool to see some example sentences, if possible.
Thanks! I'll post some below. Keep your eyes out for when I cover the future/conditional tenses as syntax gets pretty crazy there

Ábbomio ii àl duccne gelaro.
My grandfather went to the store in January.

Cat' adam chi só è alto.
Every person I know is tall

Màmamia cůce î cocina àd qua bàbamio rîtorce.
My mom cooks in the kitchen on Sunday when my dad comes home.

Al Islam è al din îçlo praticator ma là ne son môlti âltri.
Islam is the most practiced Islogian religion but there are many others.

Dartenneiémo ma non ne avemo.
We would give you some but we don't have any

Pregnermelleas?
Would you take it for me?

Vedersellàn?
Will they look at it for themselves?

Es de John cossůrua cànecosuo?
Are you with John's sister's dog?
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 20:40

Imperfect Verbs
By far the easiest tense to conjugate. Left is for -are verbs, middle is for -ere/-re verbs, right is for -ire verbs. -ndre and -mbre verbs undergo the same stem change as they typically do.

Regular Endings
1s: -ava/-eva/-iva
2s: -avas/-evas/-ivas
3s: -ava/-eva/-iva
1p: -avamo/-evamo/-ivamo
2p: -avate/-evate/-ivate
3p: -avan/-evan/-ivan

Completely Irregular Verbs
2 verbs are completely irregular in the Imperfect

Amblare- Go
1s: Iva
2s: Ivas
3s: Iva
1p: Ivamo
2p: Ivate
3p: Ivan

Estre- Be
1s: Era
2s: Eras
3s: Era
1p: Eramo
2p: Erate
3p: Eran

Irregular Stems
A few repeat offenders and their derivatives have different stems in the imperfect. These verbs are always followed by the -ere/-re imperfect endings.
Bere: Bev-
Clòre: Clod-
Dure: Duc-
Ḑire: Ḑic-
Essere: Ed-
Fare: Fac-
Gòre: God-
Lere: Leg-
Plòre: Plod-
Pore: Pon-
Trare: Trai-
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Re: Islogian

Post by Davush » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 21:53

It looks like a very unique and interesting Romance language so far!

As for some of the Arabic things, I think incorporating sun and moon letters with al is reasonable. Arabic loans in Spanish have it all over the place, e.g. aduana from ad-diwān, etc. Of course, Spanish does have its own non-assimilating article, but with the heavy and prolonged contact with Arabic, I don't think it's too farfetched.

A minor thing which I noticed is your Arabic-influenced duals. As far as I'm aware, most dialects lost the nom. -āni ending very early on (attested in Andalusi poetry and elsewhere); and I would have thought such a grammatical feature alien to Latin would come from spoken language contact (even though as you have mentioned other parts come from Classical Arabic) and so come from the acc/gen. dual -ēn/-ayn which replaced the nom. form. Of course, feel free to ignore this. [:D]
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 14 Aug 2017, 22:40

Davush wrote:It looks like a very unique and interesting Romance language so far!

As for some of the Arabic things, I think incorporating sun and moon letters with al is reasonable. Arabic loans in Spanish have it all over the place, e.g. aduana from ad-diwān, etc. Of course, Spanish does have its own non-assimilating article, but with the heavy and prolonged contact with Arabic, I don't think it's too farfetched.
Thanks [:)]. I'm still not sure if I'll incorporate sun and moon but considering it wouldn't affect anything orthographically I think it's a small thing to decide. But I think it could be possible for it to have originally been in Arabic words before spreading to other nouns. Maybe even a scenario like French "licorne" just on a bigger scale.
Davush wrote:A minor thing which I noticed is your Arabic-influenced duals. As far as I'm aware, most dialects lost the nom. -āni ending very early on (attested in Andalusi poetry and elsewhere); and I would have thought such a grammatical feature alien to Latin would come from spoken language contact (even though as you have mentioned other parts come from Classical Arabic) and so come from the acc/gen. dual -ēn/-ayn which replaced the nom. form. Of course, feel free to ignore this. [:D]
The duals are actually a complicated scenario. The -ani ending is actually descended from Latin ambo, which was simplified to -am, changed to -an under Arabic influence, and then added -i from a combination of that being a regular plural suffix and further Arabic influence.
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Re: Islogian

Post by Davush » Tue 15 Aug 2017, 11:10

All4Ɇn wrote: The duals are actually a complicated scenario. The -ani ending is actually descended from Latin ambo, which was simplified to -am, changed to -an under Arabic influence, and then added -i from a combination of that being a regular plural suffix and further Arabic influence.
Well that is certainly a much more interesting way to get the duals! I never would have guessed. I also like how they only appear on a limited number of words.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 19:43

Pluperfect Verbs
Instead of originating from Latin's pluperfect, Islogian's pluperfect originates from a periphrastic construction similar to Turkish and Cappadocian Greek, with the endings to the verbs coming from shortenings of the present tense forms of Estre.

Regular Conjugation
The stem to the vast majority of verbs in the pluperfect is formed by taking the 1st person singular past tense form and dropping the -ai/-ei/-ì/-i ending. The following endings are then added to the verb

1s: -ó
2s: -ès
3s: -è
1p: -omo
2p: -iete
3p: -òn

Irregular Verbs
Very few verbs are irregular in the Pluperfect

Dôvere- Must/Have To/Owe
Spoiler:
1s: Devó
2s: Dôvès
3s: Dôvè
1p: Devomo
2p: Dôviete
3p: Devòn
Havere- Have
Spoiler:
1s: Hovó
2s: Hovès
3s: Hovè
1p: Hovomo
2p: Hoviete
3p: Hovòn
Plâcere- Be Pleasing To
Spoiler:
1s: Plaquó
2s: Plâquès
3s: Plâquè
1p: Plaquomo
2p: Plâquiete
3p: Plaquòn
Plovere- Rain
Spoiler:
3s: Plouvè
Pôtere- Can/Be Able To
Spoiler:
1s: Potó
2s: Pôtès
3s: Pôtè
1p: Potomo
2p: Pôtiete
3p: Potòn
Sapere- Know
Spoiler:
1s: Sapó
2s: Sâpès
3s: Sâpè
1p: Sapomo
2p: Sâpiete
3p: Sapòn
Vôlere- Want
Spoiler:
1s: Voló
2s: Vôlès
3s: Vôlè
1p: Volomo
2p: Vôliete
3p: Volòn
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Thu 17 Aug 2017, 03:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 23:07

Davush wrote:
All4Ɇn wrote: The duals are actually a complicated scenario. The -ani ending is actually descended from Latin ambo, which was simplified to -am, changed to -an under Arabic influence, and then added -i from a combination of that being a regular plural suffix and further Arabic influence.
Well that is certainly a much more interesting way to get the duals! I never would have guessed. I also like how they only appear on a limited number of words.
Thanks. I'm not sure how realistic of a way it is but I like it nevertheless. When I first started Islogian years ago I had the dual in every noun. But considering some dialects of Arabic have even lost it I figured I'd take an approach more similar to Hebrew.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 23:17

Future Verbs
Since I'm going to be heading off to college soon probably won't be on here for awhile, I figured I'll try to get through verbs before then while also trying not to load a ton at one time.

Regular Conjugation
The stem for most verbs in the Future tense is the infinitive with the final -e dropped. From that stem the following endings are added:

1s: -ò
2s: -ás
3s: -à
1p: -emo
2p: -ete
3p: -àn

Irregular Stems
A few verbs and their derivatives have irregular stems in the future:
Spoiler:
Amblare: Ir-
Bere:: Berr-
Cherere: Cherr-
Clòre: Clorr-
Dolere: Dorr-
Dôvere: Dovr
Dure: Durr-
Essere: Estr-
Gòre: Gorr-
Havere: Horr-
Lere: Lerr-
Manere: Marr-
Morire: Morr-
Plâcere: Placr-
Plòre: Plorr-
Pore: Porr-
Pôtere: Potr-
Sapere: Sapr-
Tenere: Terr-
Trare: Trarr-
Valere: Varr-
Vedere: Vedr-
Venire: Verr-
Vôlere: Vorr-
Estre- To Be
Estre is the only verb to be completely irregular in the future

1s: Ero
2s: Eres
3s: Ere
1p: Saremo
2p: Sarete
3p: Eron
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 23:24

Conditional Verbs
Regular Conjugation
For the overwhelming majority of verbs, the conditional stem is identical to the future stem. To said stem, the following ends are added:

1s: -ea
2s: -eas
3s: -ea
1p: -émo (-emo if differentiable from future form)
2p: -eţe
3p: -ean

Irregular Stems
Aside from those whose stems are irregular in the future, 6 irregular verbs have unique stems in the conditional that are applied to the same regular endings as other verbs.
Dôvere: Dôvr-
Estre: Sar-
Plâcere: Plâcr-
Pôtere: Pôtr-
Sapere: Sâpr-
Vôlere: Vôrr-
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Thu 17 Aug 2017, 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 16 Aug 2017, 23:46

Object Pronouns In The Future/Conditional
I'll go more into this when I cover pronouns but as this does slightly change verb forms I'll bring it up here.
Similar to Portuguese, object pronouns in the future and conditional are placed between the stem and the endings but as a result verbal stems may change slightly:

*Stems ending in a consonant followed by -r add an -e- between the consonant and -r e.g: Placermià (I will like it)
*Stems ending in -rr drop one of them e.g: Recherlà (He will need it)
*Stems ending in -ndre/-mbre become -gner/-mer e.g: Sumerlemo (We'll buy it)
*Essere's stem irregularly becomes Esser- e.g: Esserleas (You would eat it)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Sat 19 May 2018, 18:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Islogian

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 17 Aug 2017, 00:49

Present Subjunctive
The stem to a regular verb in the present subjunctive is formed simply by taking the first person singular present form and dropping the -o. The following endings are then added.

Regular Endings
Left is for -are verbs, right is for -ere/-re/-ire verbs.
1s: -e/-a
2s: -es/-as
3s: -e/-a
1p: -emo/-amo
2p: -ete/-ate
3p: -en/-an

Stem-Changing Verbs & -Ire 2 Verbs
Stem-changing verbs like Notare (Swim) and -ire 2 verbs like Fallire (Fail/Go Bankrupt) undergo the same changes as in the present as shown below
1s: Nůte/Fallesca
2s: Nůtes/Fallescas
3s: Nůte/Fallesca
1p: Notemo/Fallamo
2p: Notete/Fallate
3p: Nůten/Fallescan

Irregular Verbs
The following verbs and their derivatives are irregular in the present subjunctive. Irregular forms are bolded.

Amblare- Go
Spoiler:
1s: Amble
2s: Ambles
3s: Amble
1p: Amblemo
2p: Amblete
3p: Amblen
Cherere- Ask/Request
Spoiler:
1s: Chiera
2s: Chieras
3s: Chiera
1p: Cheramo
2p: Cherate
3p: Chieran
Clòre- Close
Spoiler:
1s: Clòda
2s: Clòdas
3s: Clòda
1p: Clodamo
2p: Clodate
3p: Clòdan
Cocere- Cook
Spoiler:
1s: Cůca
2s: Cůcas
3s: Cůca
1p: Cocamo
2p: Cocate
3p: Cůcan
Dare- Give
Spoiler:
1s:
2s: Dés
3s:
1p: Démo
2p: Dete
3p: Dén
Docere- Show
Spoiler:
1s: Důcia
2s: Důcias
3s: Důcia
1p: Dociamo
2p: Dociate
3p: Důcian
Estre- Be
Spoiler:
1s: Si
2s: Sis
3s: Si
1p: Simo
2p: Site
3p: Sin
Fare- Do
Spoiler:
1s: Facia
2s: Facias
3s: Facia
1p: Faciamo
2p: Faciate
3p: Facian
Gòre- Enjoy
Spoiler:
1s: Gòda
2s: Gòdas
3s: Gòda
1p: Godamo
2p: Godate
3p: Gòdan
Havere- Have
Spoiler:
1s: Hea
2s: Heas
3s: Hea
1p: Havamo
2p: Havate
3p: Hén
Morire- Die
Spoiler:
1s: Můra
2s: Můras
3s: Můra
1p: Moramo
2p: Morate
3p: Můran
Movere- Move
Spoiler:
1s: Můva
2s: Můvas
3s: Můva
1p: Movamo
2p: Movate
3p: Můvan
Odire- Hear
Spoiler:
1s: Òḑa
2s: Òḑa
3s: Òḑa
1p: Oḑamo
2p: Oḑate
3p: Òḑan
Plòre- Punch
Spoiler:
1s: Plòda
2s: Plòdas
3s: Plòda
1p: Plodamo
2p: Plodate
3p: Plòdan
Plovere- Rain
Spoiler:
3s: Plůva
Sapere- Know
Spoiler:
1s: Sàpia
2s: Sàpias
3s: Sàpia
1p: Sàpiamo
2p: Sàpiate
3p: Sàpian
Sedere- Seat/Sit
Spoiler:
1s: Sieḑa
2s: Sieḑas
3s: Sieḑa
1p: Seḑamo
2p: Seḑate
3p: Sieḑan
Ştare- Stay/Stand/Be
Spoiler:
1s: Şte
2s: Ştés
3s: Şte
1p: Ştemo
2p: Ştete
3p: Ştén
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Sun 20 May 2018, 17:38, edited 2 times in total.
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