New Weekly Indo European Collablang

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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 05:57

16: d (w > b and y > dʒ (including wl, wr) e.g áwyes > ábyes & déywos > dédʒwos)
17: c (+ vo1dwalk3r's suggestion)
18: a
19: d (idov's suggestion)
20: a

For X3, I'd propose t͡ʃs > t͡ʃ.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 19:14

Results
Spoiler:

16. Glides & Plosives Yes. with w > g and y > dʒ (including wl, wr) e.g áwyes > ágyes & déywos > dédʒwos


17. Becomes t͡ɕ instead in the example of tʃy

18.

accented <á> and <ā́> merge into /o/
accented <é> and <ḗ> merge into /i/; unaccented <e> merges into /a/; unaccented <ē> becomes /ai̯/
unaccented <u> merges into /o/


with but with ō > au̯, ǝ̄ > ā and unaccented o > a


19. tʃl > ʃl, d͡ʒl > ʒl



20. a. sʃ > ʃ, etc.

Still looking like PIE?

Send me ideas for future questions?
New questions coming soon
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 19:51

Spoiler:
Please tell me if you want the sound changes differently than I've written them here!

bʰ dʰ ǵʰ gʰ gʷʰ > pʰ tʰ ḱʰ kʰ kʷʰ
ḱʰ ḱ ǵ > tʃʰ tʃ dʒ
kʷʰ kʷ gʷ > kʰ k g
e > a / _h₂, h₂_
e > o / _h₃, h₃_
PH > Pʰ
SH > S̄
H > ∅
Pʰ…Pʰ > P…Pʰ
S̩ > Sǝ
pʰ tʰ tʃʰ kʰ > f θ ʃ x
sʃ ʃs > ʃʃ / V_V
sʃ ʃs > ʃ
tʃy dʒy ʃy ʒy > tɕ dʑ ɕ ʑ
tʃ dʒ > ʃ ʒ / _S
á ā́ > o ō
é ḗ > i ī
e ē > a ai
o ō > a au
u > o
ǝ̄ > a

ówis íʃwaus-ka (The Sheep and the Horses)

ówai yasmíy glānṓ ní íst, só íʃwams dartʃt. só grāúm wóʃam waʃad; só míʃmǝ fóram; só tʃímanmǝ ṓtʃo farad. ówis íkaifyas waukad: “tʃímanmǝ spítɕau íʃwams-ka ódʒati, tʃī́r may axnotar”. íʃwaus to waukand: “ʃloθí, awai! tód spítɕamas, nǝsmíy axnotór tʃī́r: tʃímau, pótis, sai ógyas glānṓ xírmam wístram wapt, ówifyas to glānṓ ní asti. tód tʃaʃlowṓs ówis aʒróm fogad.

rī́tʃ díʒwas-ka (The King and the God)

rī́tʃ ast; só nǝpotlós. rī́tʃ sū́nom glǝnta. tóɕa ʃíutarmǝ praitʃt: "sū́nos may ʒnāyataud!" ʃíutaur tam rī́ʒmǝ waukad: "yódʒaswa daʒwóm wíronam". úpa rī́tʃ daʒwóm wíronam sasala nú daʒwóm yadʒata. "ʃloθí may, ptar warona!" daʒwós wíronas diwís kmǝtó gāt. "kíd wailsi?" "sū́nom wailmi." "tód asto", waukad laukós daʒwós wáronas. no rítʃ pótnī sū́nom dʒadʒana.
Last edited by vo1dwalk3r on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 03:08, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 20:20

Looking at it now, it looks like its own distinct language that has branched off. However, this has made me think that we should do declension tables for nouns because waronas and wironam being the same word in the nominative and accusative respectively seems odd. I don't think the sound changes would affect the language that way also. So, can someone set up declension tables for the words "Werunos", king, horse, and sheep in the language with the cases and grammatical numbers it has
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 21:09

Cavaliers327 wrote:
Sat 10 Feb 2018, 20:20
waronas and wironam being the same word in the nominative and accusative respectively seems odd. I don't think the sound changes would affect the language that way
Why?

Cavaliers327 wrote:
Sat 10 Feb 2018, 20:20
Looking at it now, it looks like its own distinct language that has branched off. […] So, can someone set up declension tables for the words "Werunos", king, horse, and sheep in the language with the cases and grammatical numbers it has
I agree it's looking more and more distinct.

Couldn't find "Werunos", but based on what I could find on Wiktionary for the others:

rī́dʒ m. king, ruler
Spoiler:
SG/PL
NOM: rī́dʒ / rídʒas
ACC: ríʒmə / ríʒnəs
GEN: rídʒ / rídʒaum
DAT: rídʒay / ríʒmas
LOC: rídʒ, rídʒi / rídʒo
íʃwas m. stallion, horse
Spoiler:
SG/PL
NOM: íʃwas / íʃwās
ACC: íʃwam / íʃwans
GEN: íʃwaɕa / íʃwauam
DAT: íʃwāy / íʃwamas
LOC: íʃway / íʃwayso
ówis f. sheep
Spoiler:
SG/PL
NOM: ówis / ówayas
ACC: ówim / ówins
GEN: ówis / ógyaum
DAT: ógyay / ówimas
LOC: ówi / ówiso
It seems like vo1dwalk3r and I got some different results. For example, rī́dʒ and íʃwas vs. rī́tʃ and aʃwas.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 10 Feb 2018, 21:20

Decided to also redo the numerals:

*óynos > óynas "one"
*dwóh₁ > dwṓ "two"
*tréyes > tríyas "three"
*kʷetwóres > katwóras "four"
*pénkʷe > pínka "five"
*swéḱs > swítʃ "six"
*septḿ̥ > saptmǝ́ "seven"
*oḱtṓw > atʃtṓw "eight"
*h₁néwn̥ > níwnə "nine"
*déḱm̥ > díʃmǝ "ten"

I particularly like the sound of díʃmǝ.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 03:06

shimobaatar wrote:
Sat 10 Feb 2018, 21:09
It seems like vo1dwalk3r and I got some different results. For example, rī́dʒ and íʃwas vs. rī́tʃ and aʃwas.
I did make a mistake with íʃwas, but it seems that there is a bit of discrepancy between the Wiktionary and Wikipedia reconstructions. I suggest we stick with what's given on Wiktionary just to be consistent.

I do have just a couple more phonological suggestions before we get onto grammar. First, I think it would be nice to have the alveolo-palatals also as allophones of the postalveolars before i, so tʃímanmǝ > tɕímanmǝ. We could also do something with iy—I think it would make sense to collapse it to ī. I also feel like ǝ is a bit of a throwaway phoneme right now, so if we wanted to make it more prevalent we could do unaccented a > ǝ (occuring before unaccented e o > a).

In the meantime, if I get around to it I might make a bunch of declension tables to see how they've ended up and what we can do with them.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 04:51

Ok, I really like the way everything is turning out

New Questions

21. Allophony
a. tʃi > t͡ɕi & d͡ʒi > d͡ʑi etc
b. Doesn't happen

22. Consonant Merger
a. t͡ʃ > t͡ɕ , d͡ʒ > d͡ʑ , ʃ > ɕ, & ʒ > ʑ
b. Leave distinct

23. Vowel Shift
a. iy > ī
b. Doesn't happen
c. Suggest your own

24. Schwa Prevalence
a. unaccented a > ǝ (occuring before unaccented e o > a)
b. Suggest your own

25. Stress Accent: The language begins to develop a certain fixed stress
a. Word Initial stress
b. Final Syllable stress
c. Penultimate stress
d. Nothing happens
e. Suggest your own


I am really looking forward to seeing those declension tables !


X1. We are going to introduce the loanwords in after this step, so any last suggestions for loanwords

X2. How are we going to derive the name for this language?
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Hominid » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 05:34

21. a
22. a
23. a (a little boring, but it makes perfect sense)
24. a
25. a
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 05:50

21. a
22. b + Frislander's suggestion below; postalveolars retracted to retroflex
23. a
24. a
25. e—something weight based; I'm thinking first syllable, unless second syllable is heavier, in which V < V(C…) < < (C…) (diphthongs count as long), so you get ník.taum, pa.dís, dʒo.stíu but dʒíu.stos, or something like that.
Last edited by vo1dwalk3r on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 20:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 06:19

Okay, I've set up some declension tables for the various types of nouns show here on Wikipedia. There's a lot of irregularity and complexity to be leveled, which should be fun, but I've left everything intact for now.

One thing I will say I like is the differentiation between nouns with accent on the stem versus accent on the ending (in oblique forms), which I think would be an interesting differentiation to keep.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Creyeditor » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 10:42

Just wanted to mention that I really like the way the declension turn out to be so irregular, I especially like the stem alternation (inherited or not).
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Frislander » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 15:49

21. a
22. b (and retract postalveolars towards retroflex)
23. a
24. b; a > ǝ + unaccented e > i
25. e initial accent becomes a falling tone, while none-initial accents are retracted to the initial syllable but giving a rising tone
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 16:24

21. a
22. a
23. a
24. a
25. vo1dwalk3r's suggestion


I just want to say thank you, vo1dwalk3r, for the declension tables. I really love the way everything is turning out, especially the irregularities of the noun declensions.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 22:18

Cavaliers327 wrote:
Sun 11 Feb 2018, 16:24
I just want to say thank you, vo1dwalk3r, for the declension tables. I really love the way everything is turning out, especially the irregularities of the noun declensions.
You're welcome! It's actually kind of addicting applying the sound changes and seeing how everything turns out. I'll try to keep doing more nouns given on Wiktionary. I've also added the endings for the various declension paradigms (they might end up slightly different after the next sound changes, we'll see).
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by idov » Sun 11 Feb 2018, 23:06

21. a
22. b + Frislander's suggestion
23. a (I assume that also means īy > ī)
24. a
25. voidwalk3r's suggestion

X2. How about reflexive genitive + words? In essence, "one's own words".
The accusative of <emo> is <eminem>. :lat:
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Yrusia » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 02:30

21. b
22. b + Frislander's suggestion
23. a
24. a
25. voidwalk3r's suggestion
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 » Tue 13 Feb 2018, 04:36

Results:
Spoiler:

21. Allophony
Spoiler:
a. tʃi > t͡ɕi & d͡ʒi > d͡ʑi etc
22. Consonant Merger
Spoiler:
b. Leave distinct+ (and retract postalveolars towards retroflex)

23. Vowel Shift
Spoiler:
a. iy > ī
24. Schwa Prevalence
Spoiler:
a. unaccented a > ǝ (occuring before unaccented e o > a)

25. Stress Accent
Spoiler:
e ( —something weight based; I'm thinking first syllable, unless second syllable is heavier, in which V < V(C…) < V̄ < V̄(C…) (diphthongs count as long), so you get ník.taum, pa.dís, dʒo.stíu but dʒíu.stos, or something like that)


We are now going to deal with loanwords, lexical items, and then on to grammar for a bit.

At this point, we can say that this marks the beginning of the old/ancient phase of this language

How different is it from PIE now?

X. What words should we borrow? List language and word ( use links to external doc if need be)

X2. What do you propose do with sequences of three vowels ? oau etc. Use y and w to break them up? Give your suggestions.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 13 Feb 2018, 04:38

Oh, no warning about when the votes are going to be tallied this time? I usually wait for that so I know when to put other stuff aside and take the time to vote.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r » Tue 13 Feb 2018, 04:43

shimobaatar wrote:
Tue 13 Feb 2018, 04:38
Oh, no warning about when the votes are going to be tallied this time? I usually wait for that so I know when to put other stuff aside and take the time to vote.
Awww :(

I've also got a huge homework I need to get done so I won't be quite so quick with everything this time, but I'm excited to see how it's all going to turn out. Gimme a day [;)]
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