Kupaŋan

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Parlox
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Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 02:53

A few weeks ago i "discovered" pama-nyungan languages, and loved the aesthetic. I decided to tinker with a phoneme inventory based off of them, and ended up with something completely different.

Phonology

Phonemes
Probably the weirdest feature of Kupaŋan is it's nasal inventory, and /θ/ /ð/.

/m n ɲ ŋ ɴ ʔ/m n ń ŋ ŋ̌ ʔ
/mb nd ɲ͡ɟ ŋg ɴɢ/ mp nd ńt ŋg ŋ̌ǧ
/p b d k q/ p b d k ǧ
/s/ s
/w θ ð ɹ j h/ w t v r y h
/l/ l

/i u/ i u
/a/ a

ʔ is sometimes treated as a vowel.
/ɴɢ/ is a pretty rare phoneme, should i classify it as some sort of allophone of /ŋg/?

Allophony
Anything in this section is subject to major change.

i > e after /ɹ/ /j/
u > o after /ɹ/ /j.
u > ɯ after any one of /d/ /s/ /z/ /ʃ/ /ʒ/
a > ɑ at the front of a word (And rounds if /w/ comes afterwards]
a > ɛ after /ɹ/ or /j/
a > ʌ if preceding /w/ at the end of a word
Vowels nasalise after a nasal consonant

d > t after a vowel affected by /ɹ/ or /j/
s > z at the end of a syllable
k > g at the end of a syllable
h > ɦ at the end of a syllable
w > v at the end of a syllable, unless the syllable ends the word
b > ʙ at the end of a syllable. When preceding /ɹ/
s > ʃ after /i/
h > x after /u/


Syllable Structure
The syllable structure is (C)(H)(V)(C). Where C is any consonant, H is /h/ or /w/, and V is any vowel.

Stress
Which syllable has stress is determined by the “Weight” of a syllable, the weight is determined by the phonemes found in it.

Stop(5) > Nasal-stop(4) > Nasal(3) > Fricative(2) > Non-sibilant(1) > Lateral(0).
Upper-Back Vowel(5) > Upper-Front Vowel(4) > Back Vowel(2) > Front Vowel(1).

Laterals don’t contribute to the weight of a syllable
Back vowels contribute 3 points under influence from stop consonants.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 03:12

Permitted Consonant Clusters
Kupaŋan doesn't allow many consonant clusters.

Code: Select all

    w l  ɹ  ɲ
m mɹ     mɲ
n nw nl
ɲ ɲw    ɲɹ
ŋ ŋw ŋl ŋɹ ŋɲ
ʔ ʔw ʔl ʔɹ ʔɲ
ŋg ŋgw ŋgl ŋgɹ
s sw sl sɹ sɲ

Permitted Vowel Clusters
Kupaŋan allows for any two-vowel combinations of /i/ /u/ /a/ . There are only two three-vowel combinations, /aua/ and /iai/. Four vowel combinations are found in some dialects, the most common of which are /auiu/ and /aiau/.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 04:51

This post isn't really about anything significant, i just want to say a few things.
  • This is probably my first serious thread devoted to a conlang i have made in a while, and i have learnt quite a bit since the last time. I plan to make threads for a few of my other conlangs in the future.

  • And lastly, this language is a challenge to myself. I'm trying to find a way to make a functional language with very small amounts of both syntax and morphology, i'll delve deeper into this in later posts.

Edit: Not relevant anymore.
Last edited by Parlox on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 20:26, edited 1 time in total.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 21:27

A little bit about the morphological processes and noun number.

Morphology

Grammatical Processes
Kupaŋan's morphology is not at all set in stone, and varies based off the speaker. Instead of having a morphology in the traditional sense, words are turned into grammatical morphemes with three processes.

The first process is to simply tack -a onto the end of a word, and place the word behind the noun/verb it modifies.
If a word ends in a, the a is deleted.
If a word ends in a aV, the second vowel is deleted.

Noun Number
Number can be formed in multiple ways, you can take a numeral and grammaticalise it, you can take the word Awau "Greater than" and grammaticalise it, and a variety of other methods.

Edit: Not relevant anymore.
Last edited by Parlox on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 20:27, edited 1 time in total.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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gestaltist
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by gestaltist » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 22:09

Parlox wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 21:27
Grammatical Processes
Kupaŋan's morphology is not at all set in stone, and varies based off the speaker. Instead of having a morphology in the traditional sense, words are turned into grammatical morphemes with three processes.
This language must be spoken by beings that work nothing like humans, then.
The first process is to simply tack -a onto the end of a word, and place the word behind the noun/verb it modifies.
If a word ends in a, the a is deleted.
If a word ends in a aV, the second vowel is deleted.
That sounds like three instances of one process to me. Where are the other two processes? Also, you just described a morpheme -a that seems to works as an adjectivizer or sorts. How does that agree with your earlier statement about the language not having fixed morphology?
Noun Number
Number can be formed in multiple ways, you can take a numeral and grammaticalise it, you can take the word Awau "Greater than" and grammaticalise it, and a variety of other methods.
What do you mean with "grammaticalize" in this context?
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 22:16

gestaltist wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 22:09
This language must be spoken by beings that work nothing like humans, then.
The language is spoken by humans, it's just not a natlang. It's a language that was developed as an experiment by a king, the king had forced his people to speak the language. I plan to use this language to derive a family of completely different but related languages.
gestaltist wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 22:09
That sounds like three instances of one process to me. Where are the other two processes? Also, you just described a morpheme -a that seems to works as an adjectivizer or sorts. How does that agree with your earlier statement about the language not having fixed morphology?
You're right about it being three instances of one process, i was confused. -a doesn't work as an adjectivizer, but you are right about it possessing a small fixed morphology. It's probably the only fixed morphological morpheme in the language.
gestaltist wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 22:09
What do you mean with "grammaticalize" in this context?
It turns a word into a morpheme that directly modifies a word.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by gestaltist » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 23:20

Parlox wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 22:16
The language is spoken by humans, it's just not a natlang. It's a language that was developed as an experiment by a king, the king had forced his people to speak the language.
If the language doesn't have any fixed morphology, how can the king even verify if people are speaking the language?
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 23:57

gestaltist wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 23:20
If the language doesn't have any fixed morphology, how can the king even verify if people are speaking the language?
Because the speakers can all understand each other almost completely. The vocabulary barely varies, and it's words ARE it's morphology, in a weird way. Grammatical morphemes can be formed out of words with similar meaning, an example of this is Nwau, which is the word for “Mind, Focus”, where it becomes Nwa as a definite article.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by gestaltist » Mon 26 Feb 2018, 07:46

Parlox wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 23:57
gestaltist wrote:
Sun 25 Feb 2018, 23:20
If the language doesn't have any fixed morphology, how can the king even verify if people are speaking the language?
Because the speakers can all understand each other almost completely. The vocabulary barely varies, and it's words ARE it's morphology, in a weird way. Grammatical morphemes can be formed out of words with similar meaning, an example of this is Nwau, which is the word for “Mind, Focus”, where it becomes Nwa as a definite article.
That’s derivational morphology, though, and another morpheme which is set in stone... That goes against your stated goals.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Mon 26 Feb 2018, 07:52

gestaltist wrote:
Mon 26 Feb 2018, 07:46
That’s derivational morphology, though, and another morpheme which is set in stone... That goes against your stated goals.
Awa isn't set in stone, and it's meaning varies from speaker to speaker. And definite articles can be formed in other ways. Some speakers don't use Awa at all, but it is widely understood, even if one hadn't heard it used like that before.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by gestaltist » Mon 26 Feb 2018, 10:26

Parlox wrote:
Mon 26 Feb 2018, 07:52
gestaltist wrote:
Mon 26 Feb 2018, 07:46
That’s derivational morphology, though, and another morpheme which is set in stone... That goes against your stated goals.
Awa isn't set in stone, and it's meaning varies from speaker to speaker. And definite articles can be formed in other ways. Some speakers don't use Awa at all, but it is widely understood, even if one hadn't heard it used like that before.
Sorry Parlox but this doesn't make any sense at all. I had hoped I would be able to show you why through my previous questions but it didn't work. I feel like you're either not completely aware of the consequences of your system, you use the terminology in a non-standard way, or both.

To put it bluntly: try talking like this in English. Substitute words randomly, like in your example. Start saying "mind" (or "mine" - with deletion, like you suggested) instead of "the" and see how people react. It just doesn't work. Language works because it's a set of commonly understood rules. Without rules, there can be no language. End of story.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Creyeditor » Mon 26 Feb 2018, 12:21

I actually think that a more associative approach is a nice idea. It is not naturalistic, but for an artlang or an engelang that's okay, I guess. You might want to read up on associative semantics, something David Gil is working on. This mostly works for syntax, but maybe you can extend it to morphology.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Mon 26 Feb 2018, 20:24

gestaltist wrote:
Mon 26 Feb 2018, 10:26

Sorry Parlox but this doesn't make any sense at all.

Yes i guess you're right. I'll be reforming this soon.
gestaltist wrote:
Mon 26 Feb 2018, 10:26
I had hoped I would be able to show you why through my previous questions but it didn't work. I feel like you're either not completely aware of the consequences of your system, you use the terminology in a non-standard way, or both.
It was both, but now i'm starting to realize this doesn't work.
gestaltist wrote:
Mon 26 Feb 2018, 10:26
To put it bluntly: try talking like this in English. Substitute words randomly, like in your example. Start saying "mind" (or "mine" - with deletion, like you suggested) instead of "the" and see how people react. It just doesn't work. Language works because it's a set of commonly understood rules. Without rules, there can be no language. End of story.
Once again, you're right.
Creyeditor wrote:
Mon 26 Feb 2018, 12:21
I actually think that a more associative approach is a nice idea. It is not naturalistic, but for an artlang or an engelang that's okay, I guess. You might want to read up on associative semantics, something David Gil is working on. This mostly works for syntax, but maybe you can extend it to morphology.

I'll be sure to check it out.
Last edited by Parlox on Mon 26 Feb 2018, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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Re: Kupaŋan

Post by Parlox » Mon 26 Feb 2018, 20:32

I'm thinking of turning this into a large dialect continuum of closely related languages. Most of the dialects will likely be almost fully intelligible with most other dialects.
  • :con: Bàsupan, (Coming soon)
  • :con: Stellendor
  • :con: Chavajau,
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire,
  • :con: Molvanian,
  • :con: Some temporary toylangs such as Rh'ae, Brythónnyc Claire, and Koe'ez.
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