europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

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Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 21 Aug 2018 08:33

shanoxilt wrote:
20 Aug 2018 01:52
Possibly rude suggestion:

Why not learn and promote an existing Western European styled language? There are already so many of them!


For the sake of naturalism, Interlingua is perhaps the best. For the sake of simplicity, Lingua Franca Nova is none too shabby. And there is always Esperanto, if you want a large community. (And if you see too many flaws in standard Esperanto, you could always learn Ido or another spin-off language.)
POLISZ ENGLISZ

Interlingua is not western european, it is romanic. And i like natural looking languagy, but not when they have an irregular spelling. Lingua franca nova is regular indeed, but it is purely romanic too. I haw a language like that too, it is called panlatino. But i dont see the reason why an international language szould be purely romanic, especially considering that the most spoken language in the world, if we count all the L2 speakers and ewen BSE speakery, iz englisz. Esperanto haz the same problem, altho it haz englisz and german words tu, and ewen some slavic wordy. Europano has quite the same amount of romanic and germanic wordy, and much more slavic wordy than esperanto. Still it iz eazier tu understand for all europeany. Once i made a counting comparing how mucz the speakery of each language can understand of both languagy, and for europano the 3 languagy with the greatest number of "pointy" were englisz, frencz and spanisz (in quite the same proporszon), around 400 "points", than come the other romanic and germanic languagy, with mor than 300 pointy, then slawic languagy with 200 tu 100 pointy. For esperanto, the nearest languagy - frencz and then spanisz - haw around 200 pointy, but for the speakery of englisz and other germanic languagy it is les than 100 and for the slawic languagy it iz nearly 0.

This is so becoz europano łordz are determined mathematicaly, the mołst internaszonal łord iz the czołzen one. Soł now i noł łat the mołst internaszonal łordy (in an european sense) are for ewery konsept (of korse not realy, my dikszonary just haz a few thouzand łordy, kłite a few łordy stil haw tu be determined). And it helps me now, traveliń around Germany łith the bike and wizitiń the surroundiń kuntrys, that i noł kłite a fju slawik łordy bekoz they're integrated intu europan.

Of korse, if ju learn some basik wokabjulary and rules in esperanto, ju kan kłikly understand mucz more, but europan iz mucz izier tu understand at the first liseniń.

Łicz doesnt min that i promołte europan and fight esperanto. Esperanto haz a solid basis of spikerz and literatura, and if łi konsider ol the more-or-les spikery, there mite bi a fju miliony, łile europano doesnt realy haw a czans, łicz is ły łen piple ask mi łat they szud learn, i say thej szud learn esperanto. I dołnt like kłite a fju ficzures ow it, but it iz the ołnly language that standz a real czans.

Learning ido or other spin-of language - i like kłite a fju ow them beter than esperanto, but then they dont really stand a chance either.

I du this for fun, and tu learn mor about other languadży. But i hawnt sin a languadż like that byfor. And after ol, if ju realy think ol this is sensles, ły ar ju in a forum dedikejted tu konlangs? Aj min, du ju tel ol the a priori languadż kriejtory that thej'r łejstiń ther tajm, sins ther ar olredy thałzandy ow them?

Gritińz from łęknica, Polska (łicz is pronałnst 'wenknitsa')

ENGLISH

Interlingua is not western european, it is romanic. And i like natural looking languages, but not when they have an irregular spelling. Lingua franca nova is regular indeed, but it is purely romanic too. I have a language like that too, it is called panlatino. But i dont see the reason why an international language should be purely romanic, especially considering that the most spoken language in the world, if we count all the L2 speakers and even BSE speakers, is english. Esperanto has the same problem, altho it has english and german words too, and even some slavic words. Europano has quite the same amount of romanic and germanic words, and much more slavic words than esperanto. Still it is easier to understand for all europeans. Once i made a counting comparing how much the speakers of each language can understand of both languages, and for europano the 3 languages with the greates number of "points" were english, french and spanish (in quite the same proportion), around 400 "points", than come the other romanic and germanic languages, with mor than 300 points, then slavic languages with 200 to 100 points. For esperanto, the nearest languages - french and then spanish - have around 200 points, but for the speakers of english and other germanic languages it is less than 100 and for the slavic languages is nearly 0.

This is so because europano words are determined mathematically, the most international word is the chosen word. So now i know what the most international words (in an european sense) are for every concept (of course not really, my dictionary just have a few thousand words, quite a few words still have to be determined). And it helps me now, travelling around Germany with the bike and visiting the surrounding countries, that i know quite a few slavic words because they're integrated into europan.

Of course, if you learn some basic vocabulary and rules and suffixes in esperanto, you can understand much more, but europan is much easier to understand at the first listening.

Which doesnt mean that i promote europan and fight against esperanto. Esperanto has a solid basis of speakers and literature, and if we consider all the more-or-less speakers, there might be a few millions, while europano doesnt really have a chance, which is why when people ask me what language they should learn, i say they should learn esperanto. I dont like quite a few features of it, but it is the only language that stands a real chance.

Learning ido or other spin-off language - i like quite a few of them better than esperanto, but then they dont really stand a chance either.

I do this for fun, and to learn more about other languages. But i haven't seen a language like that before. And after all, if you really think this is senseless, why are you in a forum dedicated to conlangs? I mean, do you tell all the a priori language creators that they're wasting their time, since there are already thousands of them?

Greetings from łęknica, Poland (which is pronounced Wenknitsa)

Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 29 Aug 2018 09:14

Since this is quite a long message, i'll post first the message in progressive europan and in the next message in english.

VORD SELECCION

Wie soll das europano wort für ‚in‘ sain? First we have to check which words we have to disposition. Biélarusse a un ‚y‘ cyrillic, qui a la son /u/. El búlgaro tiene una B cirílica, que corresponde a la V corta del europan, o sea con el sonido /v/.

Mas esa palabra no entra en consideración, porque la mayoría de las lenguas europeas no tiene palabra sin vocal. O tcheco tem a mesma palavra que o búlgaro, só que com alfabeto romano, ou seja ‚v‘. Danish hat ‚i‘. German has ‚in‘, as english, spanish has ‚en‘, the same written form as franch, but the franch pronounce it /âN/. L’estonian, comme aussi la letton, la lithuanian, la hongrois, la finlandais et la turque, nont pas une préposition pour la mot, il ny a que des suffixes.

Las otras lenguas tienen una de esas palabras que yo ya ha mencionado, o sea, esta es la lista de candidatos:

U –
I –
IN –
EN –

Zuerst muss man die internacionalität ermitteln. For that we have to know that languages have different weights, acording to the numers of speakers. FF-Les langues avec un maximum de 11 millions dhabitants ont le poids 10. En el norte islandés, noruego, sueco, finlandés, danés, estoniano, leto, lituano, bielaruso, en el centro checo, eslovaco, esloveno, húngaro, en el sudeste el albanés, el macedonio, el búlgaro, el griego. Die linguas mit 11 bis 50 millionen sprechern haben das gewicht 20: holandês, polonês, nao-iugoslavo e rumeno. Das mit dem nicht-jugoslavishen erklär ich späta besa, nau sag ich nur dass es das alde serbo-kroatish is, das sich wundasamawaise vermehrt hat, aba wenn ich alle diese sprachen als ainzeln zähl, haben die linguas im Ex-Jugoslavia fast so viel gewicht wie english, und plus als spanish o russish, das geht nicht.

Then come the languages with 50 to 100 million people, italian, ukrainian and turkish – they get 30 points. Avec 40 points sont les langues qui ont plus que 100 millions de parlants: portugais, espagnol, fransais, allemand et russe. Alguien podría decir, pero noooo, el francés solo tiene 80 millones de hablantes nativos, mas y toda la Africa francófon? Maybe the kids speak an african language when they speak with their parents or siblings, but if they have to talk to a neighbor, they'll speak franch. É ridículo no contar les como falantes nativos. E denn haben wir english, die lingua die ungefer aine milliarde poble sprechen, wenigstens wenn wir die nichtmuttersprachler dazu zelen. English gets 80 points.

Parfois je parle des langues regionales ou dialectes, mais pour les compter aussi pour la determinacion des mots cest ne pas possible. Ya es un trabajo de loco con 31 lenguas nacionales, imagina si yo tuviera que luchar con gallego, catalan, occitan, provenzal, lombardo, siciliano, bávaro, bajo alemán en varias versiones, sajón, scotch - serían docenas, talvez centenas de dialectos, me pondría loco.

Et el irlandais ou gaelique peut etre la langua nacional en Ireland, mais tres peu de gens la parlent, el anglis a tout ocupee, et ce con appren et qui est official est une langua que ni meme les parlants du gaelique parlent, parce quils ont 3 dialectes et ne parlent cun de ces 3 dialectes, mais pas la langua que tu vas apprendre - assim no é possible!

Also wer gewinnt von den 4 candidaten, u, i, in oder en? Well, in this case it seems clar to me what will come aut, but lets fa the calculacion.

proposed: u-u
belarussian: y-u

En haut, la form ecrite proposee pour l‘europan U, et la forma parlee /u/. En bajo la form escrita con la Y griega del bielaruso, e la pronunciación /u/. U y Y no son eguales, mas en europano cuento muchas letras como "similares", por ejemplo D e T, I e Y, O e U, etc.

E tambem U e Y – em suego e norueguês las tem um som bem parecido, /y/ e /Y/, na francês o U é pronuncee com o som /y/, que no IPA, International Phonetic Alphabet, é representee com ypsilon, /y/. Im deutshen han Ü und Y denselben laud. So we count it as a halfe similaritee, which signifis dat if bielarussian can get 10 points altogether, it gets 5 points for the written form. Dans les mots qui ont 4 lettras ou moins, il faut que la similaritee soit au moins 50%, pour les mots plus longs (plus que 4 lettras) au moins 51%.

u-bi-5
i
in
en
(u - biélarusse - 5 points)

En la lengua hablada la bielaruso tiene /u/, o sea, egualdee con la palabra propuesta, máximo de puntos, 10.

u-bi-5-10-
i
in
en

Ondoren bulgarian dator, B (zirilikoa) hitza du. Isso é longe demais de cualquer coisa, mas a forma falada é /v/, e U e V tem uma meia similaridee, antigamente se screvia o U com V, e no latim classico o V era pronuncee como U, ou seja ‚vinum‘, a palavra pra vinho, era pronuncee /winum/, e o /w/ é um U curtinho, no é?

Auch die deutshen prononciren das U in ‚qualität‘ als /kvali’te:t/, die skandinavis und slavis screiben sogar ‚kvalitet‘ mit V. Dus bulgarian da the spoken word U 5 points.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5
i
in
en

La mot en tceque est ‚v‘, et comme la langua ha 10 points, la mot U gagne 5 points du tceque pour la langua ecrite et 5 pour la langua parlee.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i
in
en

Y aora llegamos al danesh.

propuesta: i-i
danesh: i-i

Im cima a palavra proposee na forma scrit, e a pronúncia da palavra proposee. Im baixo a palavra do danish in su forma scrit e falee. 100% überainstimmung na scrift- e na spich-lingua, also zwaimal 10 punkte baim danishen für I.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10
in
en

Does danish ‚i‘ can support the word ‚in‘ too? Un maximum de 2 lettras pourrait bi les memes, et un ist la meme, el I, un de deux, 50%. 5 puntos del danish in lingua scrita y ablee pra el IN.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10
in-da-5-5
en

E cann danish au dem word 'en' helfen?
forgeslagen: en-en
danish: i -i

No, porquee o E e o I ha meia similaridee, ou seja, meio ponto de dos pontos possíbeis (a palavra mais long, ‚en‘, ha duas letras), é só 25%, isso no é suficient. Denn come deutsh, mit ‚in‘. German ‚in‘ can helpe the proposal ‚i‘ a bit, with 50% similaritee, wich signifis 20 points (german has potenciali 40 points). Et il aide ‚in‘ avec 100% in lingua ecrite et 100% in lingua parlee.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10-de-20-20
in-da-5-5-de-40-40
en-

Y el aleman ‚in‘ puede ayudar el ‚en‘? Secur, E and I have halfe similaritee, also in inglishe you pronounce enquiry or inquiry the same wei. O N é egual, ou seja de 2 pontos possíbeis, ai 1,5 akie. Deutshe hat 40 punte, also 1,5 stet zu 2 so wi X zu 40.

1,5 = x_
2 40

Dus X is 40 x 1,5, wich makes 60, dividee dru 2, wich makes 30.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10-de-20-20
in-da-5-5-de-40-40
en-de-30-30

Bon, oni ne va pas fare toute la calculacion ici, oni montra la finale resultat:

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-ju-20-20-mk-5-pl-10-10-ru-20-sk-5-5-sn-5-5-uk-15
i-da-10-10-de-20-20-en-40-40-is-10-10-it-15-15-nl-10-10-no-10-10-po-20-ro-10-sv-10-10
in-da-5-5-de-40-40-en-80-80-es-30-30-fr-30-30-gr-7-7-is-5-5-it-30-30-nl-20-20-no-5-5-po-20-30-ro-20-15-sh-5-5-sv-5-5-
en-de-30-30-en-60-60-es-40-40-fr-40-20-gr-10-10-it-22-22-nl-15-15-po-30-20-ro-15-15-sh-7-7-

Y agora sumamos todo:

u – 150
i – 280
in – 609
en – 508

Mintenant il faut soubstrair des points pour la longueur. Mesme si in esse caso no faz diferens. Cada lettra hat 10 punte, cada laud hat 10 punte, so verlirt das word U, ain lettra + ain laud, 20 punte.

u – 150 – 20 = 130
i – 280
in – 609
en – 508

We fa la same with I, dus minus 20.
u – 150 – 20 = 130
i – 280 – 20 = 260
in – 609
en – 508

Avec IN et EN sont 2 lettras et 2 sons, sa signifi 20 + 20, sa da 40. Mas una consonante ki no is seguida bai vocal perde mas 10 puntos, o sea ha ki bi sacados 50 puntos.

u – 150 – 20 = 130
i – 280 – 20 = 260
in – 609 – 50 = 559
en – 508 – 50 = 458

In palabras con pesos relativli similares la brevedee puede ser important, mas como se vi, el internacionalidee is mas important. E la palavra ‚in‘, co 559 pontos, é la ganhador e invidee pro la club af europan. So europan is a lingua wo au du la wörder calculeren e determina cannst.

Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 29 Aug 2018 09:15

WORD SELECTION

How should the europano word for 'in' be? First we have to check which words we have to disposition. Belorussian has a cyrillic ‚y‘, which has the sound /u/. Bulgarian has a cyrillic B, which corresponds to the europano V, ie with the sound /v/.

But this word cant be considered, since the majority of european languages doesnt have words without vowels. Czech has the same word as bulgarian, but with roman alphabet, ie 'v'. Danish has 'i'. German has 'in', as english, spanish has 'en', the same written form as french, but the french pronounce it /âN/. Estonian, as latvian, lithuanian, hungarian, finnish and turkish dont have a preposition for the word, they just have suffixes.

The other languages have one of the words i have mentioned, so this is the list of candidates:

U –
I –
IN –
EN –

First we have to find out the internationality of the words. For that we have to know that languages have different weights, according to the numbers of speakers. The languages with a maximum of 11 million speakers have weight 10. In the north we have icelandic, norwegian, swedish, finnish, danish, estonian, latvian, lithuanian, belarussian, in the middle czech, slovak, slovenian, hungarian, in the southeast albanian, macedonian, bulgarian, greek. The languages with 11 until 50 million speakers have weight 20: dutch, polish, not-yugoslavian and romanian. Not-yugoslavian is the old serbo-croatian, that multiplied itself miraculously into 4 languages, but if i count this language as 4 single languages, the serbo-croatian language have almost the same weight as english, and more than spanish, french or russian - no way.

Then come the languages with 50 to 100 million people, italian, ukrainian and turkish – they get 30 points. With 40 points are the languages that have more than 100 million speakers: portuguese, spanish, french, german and russian. Sombody could argue, but nooooo, french has only 80 million native speakers, but what about all francophone Africa? Maybe the kids speak an african language when they speak with their parents or siblings, but if they have to talk to a neighbor, very probably they'll speak french. It is ridiculous not to count them as native speakers. And then we have english, with more than a billion speakers, at least when we count L2 learners to them. English gets 80 points.

Sometimes i speak in regional languages or dialects, but it is not possible to count them for the determination of words. It is already a hell of a job with the 31 national languages, imagine if i had to fight with gallician, catalan, occitan, provencal, lombard, sicilian, bavarian, low german in several versions, saxon, scotch - they'd be dozens, maybe hundreds of dialects, it would make me crazy.

And irish or gaelic may be the national language of Ireland, but few people speak it, english has occupied everything, and what you learn as official irish is a language that not even the irish speak, since they speak of the 3 main dialects, but not the language that we should learn - no way!

So who wins among the 4 candidates, u, i, in or en? Well, in this case it seems clear to me what will come out, but lets do the calculation.

proposed: u-u
belarussian: y-u

In the line above the proposed written form for europan U, and the spoken form /u/. In the line below the written form with the Y of belarussian, and the pronunciation /u/. U and Y are not the same, but in europan i count many letters as "similar", for example D and T, I and Y, O and U, etc.

And also U and Y - in swedish they have quite a similar sound, /y/ and /Y/, in french U is pronounced with the sound /y/ - thats the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) representation. In german Ü and Y have the same sound. So we count it as a half similarity, which means that if belarussian can get 10 points altogether, it gets 5 points for the written form. In the words that have up to 4 letters, the similarity must be of at least 50%, for longer words the similarity must be of at least 51%.

u-bi-5
i
in
en

In the spoken language belarussian has /u/, that is equality with the proposed word, maximum of points, 10.

u-bi-5-10-
i
in
en

Bulgarian has cyrillic B for the word. Thats too far from anything, but the spoken form is /v/, and U and V have half similarity: in the old times people wrote /u/ with V, in classic latin V was pronounced as /u/. Also germans pronounce U sometimes as /v/, as in 'qualität', which is pronounced /kvali'te:t/, scandinavians even write 'kvalitet'. Thus bulgarian gives the spoken word 5 points.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5
i
in
en

The word in czech is 'v', and since the language has 10 points, the word U gets 5 points from czech for the written language and 5 for the spoken language.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i
in
en

And now we come to danish.

proposed: i-i
danish: i-i

In the line above the proposed word in the written form, and the pronunciation of the proposed word. In the line below the danish word in its written and spoken form. 100% equality in the written and spoken form, thus twice 10 points from danish.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10
in
en

Does danish ‚i‘ can support the word ‚in‘ too? A maximum of 2 letters could be the same, and one is the same, I. One of two, 50%. Thus 5 points from danish in written language and 5 points from danish from the spoken language for IN.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10
in-da-5-5
en

And can danish help the word 'en'?

proposed: en-en
danish: i - i

No, because E and I have half similarity, that is, half point out of 2 possible points (the longer word, 'en', has 2 letters), so that makes 25%, thats not enough. Then comes german, with 'in'. German 'in' can help the proposal 'i' a bit, with 50% similarity, which means 20 points (german has potentially 40 points). And it helps 'in' with 100% in written and 100% in spoken language.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10-de-20-20
in-da-5-5-de-40-40
en-

And german with 'in' can help 'en'? Sure, E and I have half similarity, also in english you pronounce enquiry or inquiry the same way. N is the same, that means that out of 2 possible points, we have 1,5 here. German has 40 points, so 1,5 stands to 2 as X to 40.

1,5 = x_
2 40

Thus X is 40 x 1,5, which makes 60, divided thru 2, which makes 30.

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-
i-da-10-10-de-20-20
in-da-5-5-de-40-40
en-de-30-30

Well, we wont make the whole calculation here, we just show the final result:

u-bi-5-10-bu-5-cz-5-5-ju-20-20-mk-5-pl-10-10-ru-20-sk-5-5-sn-5-5-uk-15
i-da-10-10-de-20-20-en-40-40-is-10-10-it-15-15-nl-10-10-no-10-10-po-20-ro-10-sv-10-10
in-da-5-5-de-40-40-en-80-80-es-30-30-fr-30-30-gr-7-7-is-5-5-it-30-30-nl-20-20-no-5-5-po-20-30-ro-20-15-sh-5-5-sv-5-5-
en-de-30-30-en-60-60-es-40-40-fr-40-20-gr-10-10-it-22-22-nl-15-15-po-30-20-ro-15-15-sh-7-7-

And now we add it all:

u – 150
i – 280
in – 609
en – 508

Now we have to take the points off for the length. Even if in this case it doesnt matter. Every letter has 10 points, every sound 10 points, so the word U, 1 letter and 1 sound, loses 20 points.

u – 150 – 20 = 130
i – 280
in – 609
en – 508

We do the same with I, thus minus 20.

u – 150 – 20 = 130
i – 280 – 20 = 260
in – 609
en – 508

With IN and EN there are 2 letters and 2 sounds, that means 20+20, that makes 40. But a consonant which is not followed by a vowel gets 10 more points, that means that we have to take off 50 points.

u – 150 – 20 = 130
i – 280 – 20 = 260
in – 609 – 50 = 559
en – 508 – 50 = 458

In words with relatively similar weights, brevity can be important, mas as you see, internationality is more important - brevity is only important when words have more or less the same degree of internationality. And the word 'in', with 559, is the winner and invited to join the europano club. So europan is a language where also you can calculate and determine the words.

Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 20 Sep 2018 11:06

PROGRESAL EUROPAN

Sintax

La sintax é mais ou minos la mesma ki in inglish e na majoree af el indo-europano linguas, SVO. Ain ausnam is natürali na verb, wo la negacion is simpli co 'no': It is not "I didnt speak", it is "mi spicou no" - i spoke not.

ENGLISH

Syntax

The syntax is more or less the same as in english and in the majority of the indo-european languages, SVO. One exception is of course in the verb, where the negation is simply with 'no': It is not 'I didnt speak", it is "mi spicou no" - i spoke not.

Zé do Rock
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 02 Oct 2018 21:55

PROGRESAL EUROPAN

ADJECTIF

In prinsipio ai no terminaciones pro el adjectiv, adjectivos can ende co eni letra: verde, bleu, yelo, rede, blanco, negro, forte, slabi, late, rano. O ki exist is terminassoes ki faz af una palavra af un outre gramatico clas un adjectiv: nacion, nacional. Wordes ending con I or IE get the ending ICO, pro exemple kemie - kemico, filozofie - filozofico. Oso les mots con ICA/ICU get la termination ICO: politica - politico, dinamica - dinamico. Na demás casos, usa la terminacion -ALE, exepto cuando la palabra ja tien una L, in ese cas -ARE. Pacion - pacionale, problem - problemare, pople - poplare. Oso essas terminassoes can perde su finale vocal, si la palavra is no fologee bai consonant: kemik, filozofik, pacional, problemar, poplar.


ENGLISH

ADJECTIVE

In principle there are no endings for the adjective, adjectives can end with any letter: verde, bleu, yelo, rede, blanco, negro, forte, slabi (weak), late, rano (early). What does exist are endings that make of a word from another grammatical class an adjective: nacion, nacional. Words ending with I or IE get the ending ICO, for example kemie - kemico, filozofie - filozofico. Also the words with ICA/ICU get the ending ICO: politica - politico, dinamica - dinamico. In other cases use the ending -ALE, except when the word has already an L, in this case -ARE. Pacion - pacionale, problem - problemare, pople - poplare. Also these endings can lose their final vowel, if the word isnt followed by a consonant: kemik, filozofik, pacional, problemar, poplar.

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 12 Oct 2018 21:57

PROGRESAL EUROPAN

ADJECTIVOS DERIVEE DE GEOGRAFICO NOMES

Pro europano plases onde lis spik germanishe linguas, el endu pro el adjectiv is -ISHE. Pro europano plases wo lis spik slavski linguas, el endu is -SKI. Pro al otre plases el endu is IANO, ma si a plase nom end in A bes bi presedee bai un I, solo ANO (China - chinano, no chiniano). As presk tujur, ta endus perde su finale vocal cant ai no consonante ki folo: 'Lo hav un italiano nom', ma 'Su nom is italian' (his name is italian).

Cuando la nom is composee bai 2 palabras, nu deriv el adjectivo du plu longo nom, exepto cuando ta nom is a generico nom usee pro otre geografico nomes, in ta caso nu tak el otre nom, e si dat cause confucion, la toto nom. Cuand unu du nomes is a cardinale punt, nus usa la toto nom, e put lu samen. Pro nomes componee bai plu ki 2 nom, nus abrevi la nom e put el endu as ima. Na sub (dopo la text in inglishe), la lista de composee nomes e su derivativos.

La vantage de dat is ki pro exemplo nu hav a nome pro la habitis af Antigua and Barbuda. In inglish et otre linguas nu sei 'antiguan' pro la habitis du land Antigua and Barbuda e pro la habitis af el isla Antigua, so algucomo la habitis de Barbuda is "discriminee". E la nome pro Suidafrika is taket af afrikaans, so nu can faz a distingacion inter suidafrikis, dat is la habitis du land Suidafrika, e sudafrikis, dat is la habitis de Sud Africa, inclusive pro exemplo botswanis, namibis, etc



ENGLISH

ADJECTIVES THAT ARE DERIVED FROM GEOGRAPHIC NAMES

For european places where they speak germanic languages, the ending for the adjective is -ISHE. For european places where they speak slavic languages, the ending is -SKI. For all other places the ending is IANO, but if a place name ends in A without being preceded by an I, only ANO (China - chinano, not chiniano). As almost always, these endings lose their final vowel when there is no consonant following: 'Lo hav un italiano nom' (he has an italian name), ma 'Su nom is italian' (his name is italian).

When the name is composed by 2 words, we derive the adjective from the longer name, except when this name is a generic name used for other geographic names, in this case we take the other name, and if this still causes confusion, the whole name. When one of the names is a cardinal point, we use the whole name, and put it together. For names composed from more than 2 names, we abbreviate the name and put the ending as usual. Below the list of composed names and their derivatives:

Antigua and Barbuda - aabiano (aab-iano)
Burkina Faso - burkinano
Cabo Verde - verdiano
Cote d'Ivoire - ivoiriano
El Savador - salvadoriano
Este Timor - estetimoriano
Guinea Ecuatorial - ecuatorialiano
Guiné-Bissau - bissiano
Marshall Ilands - marshalliano
New Zeeland - newzeelandiano
Norde Korea - nordekoriano
Papu Niugini - pngiano (pron. ponigiano (p=po, n=ni)
St. Kitts and Nevis - skaniano
St. Lucia - luciano
St. Vincent and the Grenadines - svagiano
San Marino - mariniano
Sao Tomé e Príncipe - stepiano
Saudi Arabia - saudiano
Solomon Ilands - solomoniano
Sri Lanka - lankano
Sude Korea - sudekoriano
Sude Sudan - sudesudaniano
Suidafrika - suidafrikano
Trinidad and Tobago - tatiano
United Arab Emirates - uaeniano
USA - usano

The advantage of this is that for instance we have a name for the inhabitants of Antigua and Barbuda. In english and other languages we say 'antiguan' for the inhabitants of the country Antigua and Barbuda and for the inhabitants of the island of Antigua, so somehow the inhabitants of Barbuda are "discriminated". And the name for South Africa is taken from afrikaans, so we can make a distinction between suidafrikis, who are the inhabitants of the country Suidafrika, and sudafrikis, who are the inhabitants of southern Africa, including for instance botswanis, namibis, etc

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 12 Oct 2018 22:00

PS:

Salutus de Schengen, Luxemburg

Greetings from Schengen, Luxemburg

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 18 Oct 2018 17:18

PROGRESAL EUROPAN

ADVERBIOS

Ai no generel endu pro el adverbios, ma si un adverbio is derivet af a vord af un otre gramaticale clas, lu get el endu -li. Dopo un adjectivo ki end in -ale, nu solo substituh E bai I: razonale - razonali.

ENGLISH

ADVERBS

There is no general ending for the adverbs, but if an adverb is derived from a word of another grammatical class, it gets the ending -li. After an adjective ending in -ale, we just replace I for E: razonale (rational) - razonali.

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 07 Nov 2018 14:51

EUROPAN

Unali mi mus corige mai laste mesag. La sufixo pro el adverbio ki veni de vordes af otre gramaticale clases is 'li-k', no 'li. Ma si la vord is no fologee bai a vord ki starte co vocal, oni can elimina la K.


ARTICLES

La generale definit article is LA, mas EL pre vocal. LA BANAN, EL APLE.

La generale nedefinit article is A, mas UN pre vocal. A BANAN, UN APLE.

El usu af articles is non obligar. Oni can sei MI GO TU LA CITI, mas oso MI GO TU CITI, e meme MI GO CITI is OK, como GO alwen impli dat algi go tu alguvo.



ENGLISH

First i have to correct a bit my last posting. The suffix for the adverb coming from words from other grammatical classes is 'li-k', not 'li'. But if the word isnt followed by a word beginning with vowel, the -k can be dropped.


ARTICLES

The general definite article is LA, but EL before a vowel. LA BANAN, EL APLE.

The general indefinite article is A, but UN before a vowel. A BANAN, UN APLE.

The use of articles is not compulsory. One can say MI GO TU LA CITI but also MI GO TU CITI, and even MI GO CITI is OK, since GO always implies that someone goes to somewhere.

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Keenir » 13 Nov 2018 08:49

Zé do Rock wrote:
12 Oct 2018 21:57
PROGRESAL EUROPAN
ENGLISH

ADJECTIVES THAT ARE DERIVED FROM GEOGRAPHIC NAMES

For european places where they speak germanic languages, the ending for the adjective is -ISHE. For european places where they speak slavic languages, the ending is -SKI. For all other places the ending is IANO, but if a place name ends in A without being preceded by an I, only ANO (China - chinano, not chiniano). As almost always, these endings lose their final vowel when there is no consonant following: 'Lo hav un italiano nom' (he has an italian name), ma 'Su nom is italian' (his name is italian).
what if their European nation of origin (or residence) is where they speak both a Germanic language and one of the "other places" language? (such as the Belgian origin of Hercule Poirot, or England where he does his investigating)

When the name is composed by 2 words, we derive the adjective from the longer name, except when this name is a generic name used for other geographic names, in this case we take the other name, and if this still causes confusion, the whole name. When one of the names is a cardinal point, we use the whole name, and put it together. For names composed from more than 2 names, we abbreviate the name and put the ending as usual. Below the list of composed names and their derivatives:

The advantage of this is that for instance we have a name for the inhabitants of Antigua and Barbuda. In english and other languages we say 'antiguan' for the inhabitants of the country Antigua and Barbuda and for the inhabitants of the island of Antigua, so somehow the inhabitants of Barbuda are "discriminated". And the name for South Africa is taken from afrikaans, so we can make a distinction between suidafrikis, who are the inhabitants of the country Suidafrika, and sudafrikis, who are the inhabitants of southern Africa, including for instance botswanis, namibis, etc
wait, so we don't want to discriminate against the people of Barbuda by omitting them...but South Africa's name is Afrikaans?
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 13 Nov 2018 12:32

Keenir wrote:
13 Nov 2018 08:49
what if their European nation of origin (or residence) is where they speak both a Germanic language and one of the "other places" language? (such as the Belgian origin of Hercule Poirot, or England where he does his investigating)
REFORMAD

Na caso de Belgie, la nome du paiz é la nome germanish, Belgie - porkee é mais internacional (Y mais corto) ki Belgica. Und da wir dem germanishe namen den forzug gegeben ham, is wenigstens das demonym "nich germanish", belgiano, so sind die wallonis nich belaidigt...

In the case of Luxembourg, the name is also germanic, Luxemburg, sinse all uther languages except francian and inglishe doant hav that O, and it fits perfectly intu the europano spelling-pronunciation sistem. Pra compensar lu, lu non è consideree germanic, on di luxemburgano. Ay tamben la nome na lingua locale luxemburgan, Letzebuerg co trema nel E, mas esu é complicado de produsir y la nome non é ni un poc internacional.

Im fall der Swits, is der name das resultat aus allen europano sprachen, Swits. Wich is a bit neerer tu franciano Suisse than tu deutshe Schweiz. Pra compensar lu, e porkee la majoritee du paiz è formee par deutshe switsis, on considera lu un paiz germanish e di 'switsishe'.



ENGLISH

In the case of Belgium, the name of the country is the germanic name, Belgie - because it is mor international (And shorter) than Belgique. And since we gave preference to the germanic name, at least the demonym is "not germanic", belgiano, so walloons dont get offended...

In the case of Luxembourg, the name is also germanic, Luxemburg, since all other languages except french and english dont have that O, and it fits perfectly into the europano spelling-pronunciation system. To compensate that, it is not considered germanic, we say luxemburgano. There is also the name in the luxemburgano language, Letzebuerg with umlaut on the E, but thats complicated to produce and the name is not international at all.

In the case of Switzerland, the name is a result of the name in all european languages, Swits. Which is a bit nearer to french Suisse than to german Schweiz. To compensate that, and becaus the german swiss are clearly the majority, we considder it a germanic country and say 'switsishe'.

wait, so we don't want to discriminate against the people of Barbuda by omitting them...but South Africa's name is Afrikaans?

REFORMAD

Gracias par la cuestion critical, esa é la rason porkee yo pono la reglas akie, asie yo podo meyorar algun europano reglas e palabras.

Maine logik war: in europano wer der name Sud Africa. But if Nord Africa is the northern reejon of Africa, Sud Africa must be the suthern reejon of Africa, wich includes cuntrys like Botswana, Zimbabwe, etc. Asie noi necesit un nome speciale pra la paiz. En principio yo coyerie la nom inglish, mas lu é dificil de pronunciar pra mayorie du non-anglis, por causa du TH. Ich wyrd den xhosa oda zulu name nemen, wenn si internazional weren, aba Mzansi oda Azania sind fyr den rest der welt nich zu erkennen. So i took the afrikaans name.

Ma mai logic avè un mini eror, lorske la palavra 'suid' /söid/ o /söit/ en afrikaans es osie dificile de pronunsar pra la resto du mund. Asie ki yo va clamar lu Saud Africa, ki es inglishe falada con un peken element afrikaans en lu, la D.

Manche loite könnten protestiren wail es was afrikaans hat, und si die boeren (was aigentlich nur 'bauern' bedoitet) mit apartheid asoziiren. But the inglishe south africans wernt so less rasist than the boers, thay wer just a minority amung the wites. E la majoritee du gen ki parle afrikaans non è blankis, lis è mixturis.



ENGLISH

Thanks for the critical question, this is the reason why i'm posting the rules here, so i can improve - with some help - some europano features.

My logic was: In europano the name would be Sud Africa. But if Nord Africa is the northern region of Africa, Sud Africa must be the southern region of Africa, which includes countries like Botswana, Zimbabwe, etc. So we need a special name for the country. In principle we'd take the english name, but thats dificult to pronounce for the majority of non-anglos, because of the TH. I'd take a xhosa or zulu name if they wer international, but Mzansi or Azania are irecognizable for the rest of the world. So i took the afrikaans name.

Still, my logic had a little mistake, since the word 'suid' /söid/ or /söit/ in afrikaans is also difficult to pronounce for the rest of the world. So i'll call it Saud Africa, which is spoken english with a little afrikaans element in it, the D.

Some people might protest against having something afrikaans in the name, because they associate the boers (which actually just means the farmers, peasants, cf. english 'boorish') with apartheid. But the english south africans werent so less racist than the boers, they were just a minority among the whites. And most afrikaans speakers arent white, they're coloured.

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Keenir » 15 Nov 2018 09:16

Zé do Rock wrote:
13 Nov 2018 12:32
Keenir wrote:
13 Nov 2018 08:49
what if their European nation of origin (or residence) is where they speak both a Germanic language and one of the "other places" language? (such as the Belgian origin of Hercule Poirot, or England where he does his investigating)
In the case of Belgium, the name of the country is the germanic name, Belgie - because it is mor international (And shorter) than Belgique. And since we gave preference to the germanic name, at least the demonym is "not germanic", belgiano, so walloons dont get offended...
(my emphasis)

remind me again - whats the name of Britain/England, then, given that it has Welsh people and Celtic language-speakers in it.

wait, so we don't want to discriminate against the people of Barbuda by omitting them...but South Africa's name is Afrikaans?
ENGLISH
My logic was: In europano the name would be Sud Africa. But if Nord Africa is the northern region of Africa, Sud Africa must be the southern region of Africa, which includes countries like Botswana, Zimbabwe, etc. So we need a special name for the country. In principle we'd take the english name, but thats dificult to pronounce for the majority of non-anglos,
"South Africa" is difficult?
Some people might protest against having something afrikaans in the name, because they associate the boers (which actually just means the farmers, peasants, cf. english 'boorish')
and CCCP is a bunch of letters, yet people keep associating it with Stalin and his successors. same thing.
with apartheid. But the english south africans werent so less racist than the boers, they were just a minority among the whites. And most afrikaans speakers arent white, they're coloured.
"at least they aren't as bad as those other people" is not a good defense.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Creyeditor » 15 Nov 2018 09:32

Keenir wrote:
15 Nov 2018 09:16
"South Africa" is difficult?
Yeth, it ith.
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Keenir » 15 Nov 2018 09:40

Creyeditor wrote:
15 Nov 2018 09:32
Keenir wrote:
15 Nov 2018 09:16
"South Africa" is difficult?
Yeth, it ith.
I stand corrected & retract that question...though, I'd have thought "fr" would be just as tough as "th".
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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 15 Nov 2018 22:36

Keenir wrote:
15 Nov 2018 09:16
remind me again - whats the name of Britain/England, then, given that it has Welsh people and Celtic language-speakers in it.
EUROPAN

Bon, la mega majoritee na land spik inglish as su mama lingua, e meme lis ki ha non inglish as su mama lingua can spik lu. So nu sei dat in Ingland lis spik a germanishe lingua, as nu sei dat in Deutshland lis spik a germanishe lingua, meme si la sorbis in el este spik a slavski lingua, et ai ciganis ki spik su oune lingua... e nu oso sei dat in Russia lis spik a slavski lingua, meme si ai dozenas linguas labah dat is no slavski...


ENGLISH

Well, the great majority in the country speaks english as their mother tongue, and even the ones who dont hav english as their mother tongue speak english. So we say that in England they speak a germanic language, as we say that in Germany they speak a germanic language, even if the sorbs in the east speak a slavic language, and there are gipsys who speak their own language... and we also say that in Russia they speak a slavic language, even if there are dozens of languages there...

"at least they aren't as bad as those other people" is not a good defense.
EUROPAN

Mi ha no sei dat un pople is plu mau o beta dan el otri. I ha sei ki nixe pople is beta dan el otri, e mi duta dat ai a nacion in dize svet ki ha nixe sorte rasismo.


ENGLISH

I wasnt saying that one people is worse or better than the other. I was saying that no people is better than the other, and i doubt that there is any nation in the world that doesnt have some sort of racism.

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 15 Nov 2018 22:38

Keenir wrote:
15 Nov 2018 09:40
Creyeditor wrote:
15 Nov 2018 09:32
Keenir wrote:
15 Nov 2018 09:16
"South Africa" is difficult?
Yeth, it ith.
I stand corrected & retract that question...though, I'd have thought "fr" would be just as tough as "th".
REFORMIRT

Ich kenne kaine europano sprache die das digraf FR nich hat - filaicht suomian? But the grate majority of europano languages dont hav a TH. Yo solo conece 3 de lis, inglishe, grekian et espanian, et espaniano solo en su europano variant. Y mesmo in inglish ai no poco dialectos ki no tene TH.

ENGLISH

I dont know any european language that doesnt have the digraph FR - maybe finnish? But the great majority of european languages dont have a TH. I only know 3 of them, english, greek and spanish, and spanish only in its european variant. And even in english there are quite a few dialects that dont have TH.

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Re: europidjin? euroblabla? europex?

Post by Zé do Rock » 20 Nov 2018 22:20

EUROPAN

PRONOMES

Existe no diferens inter pronomes as subject e pronomes as object. Mi ama yu, yu ama mi. Wen lis is nedirect object, lis veni pre la direct object: Yu da mi la buk. Posesivo pronomes hav oune vordes.

POSESIVO PRONOMES

MI MAI-N
YU TAI-N
LI SU
ELA SU
LO SU
LU SU
NU NASHE
VU VASHE
LIS SU

Na seccion pro substantivos nu va vi dat ai endus pro substantivos: -a pro femal, -i pro neutral, -o pro manal, -u pro dinges. E dat is reflectee na pronomes du 3. person: LI is neutral, LO is manal, LU is pro dinges (inglish 'it'), e bai dat logica LA musau bi la vord pro la female pronom. Ma la vord ja is uzee pro el article, so un E was adee, dat is la romanico form eniwei (ella, elle, ela). La N in MAI-N e TAI-N signifi ki N can bin eliminee si lu no fologee bai a vocal. Mai banana, tain aple.



ENGLISH

PRONOUNS

There is no differentiation between pronouns as subject and pronouns as object. Mi ama yu, yu ama mi. When they are indirect object, they come before the direct object: Yu da mi la buk - you give me the book. Possessive pronouns have own words.

POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS

MI MAI-N
YU TAI-N
LI SU
ELA SU
LO SU
LU SU
NU NASHE
VU VASHE
LIS SU

In the section for nouns we'll see that there are endings for nouns: -a for female, -i for neutral, -o for masculine, -u for things. And this is reflected in the pronouns of the 3. person: LI means he/she, LO is masculine, LU is for things (it), and, by that logic, LA would have to be the word for the female form. But the word is already used for the article, so i added an E, which is the romanic form anyway (ella, elle, ela). The N in MAI-N e TAI-N mean that the N can be dropped, if it is not followed by a vowel. Mai banana, tain aple.

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