Micalangs Scratchpad

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Micamo
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Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 22:28

I have no idea what I'm doing anymore.

Xuína:

/t k ʔ ʦ ʧ s ʃ x χ n j a i ɯ/ <t k ʔ c č s š x x̌ n y a i u>

Prosodically Xuína has two syllable types: "Reduced" syllables of the form CV, and "Full" syllables of the form CV́V CVV́ CVʔ. CV́V have a falling tone and CVV́ a rising tone, with CV and CVʔ syllables tone-neutral. Every syllable except the final one must be a full syllable, and the final one must be reduced, unless the word is a monosyllable. Each word thus loses some of its phonemic information as it undergoes final vowel devoicing.

Some example simple clauses:

huánáaʔa nuʔkiási
hua2<na2a>'a-0 nu'kia2si
rise<PERF>-3sg.ABS sun
The sun rose.

čáihuáʔa nuʔkiási
cha2i=hua2<0>'a-0 nu'kia2si
PROG=rise<IMPERF>-3sg.ABS sun
The sun is rising.

xaá čáihuáʔa nuʔkiási?
xaa2 cha2i=hua2<0>'a-0 nu'kia2si
Q PROG=rise<IMPERF>-3sg.ABS sun
Is the sun rising?

caʔ, yií čáihuáʔa nuʔkiási
ca' yii2 cha2i=hua2<0>'a-0 nu'kia2si
NO NEG PROG=rise<IMPERF>-3sg.ABS sun
No, the sun is not rising.


EDIT: Modified the examples because I'm utterly incompetent

EDIT 2: I installed an extension that lets me change the font of the CBB forums to Charis SIL, so I added back in the uvular fricative since it doesn't look so ugly anymore
Last edited by Micamo on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 18:13, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Creyeditor » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 00:21

Neat idea. How does it work for monosyllabic words? No final vowel devoicing there? I suspect suffixation saves syllables from being word final?
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 01:54

Yes, each final syllable in a root has an "expanded form" that surfaces when suffixation happens. Monosyllables don't undergo final vowel devoicing.
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by gestaltist » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 10:09

I like the phonotactics. Good to have you back.
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by DesEsseintes » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 17:11

I like the aesthetic (surprise!), and I look forward to seeing more.
/t k ʔ ʦ ʧ s ʃ x χ n j a i ɯ/ <t k ʔ c č s š x n y a i u>

I couldn’t help noticing that in a recent post in another thread you posted a sample of this (?) language with an x with a diaeresis. That combined with /x x/ makes me wonder if you were considering a uvular fricative for this inventory? Personally I think that would be really neat in spite of (or rather because of) the lack of a corresponding uvular stop.

Also, a question: How is <ua> pronounced? Is it [ɯa] [wa] or sth else? Given your phonotactics I’m guessing the first vowel becomes non-syllabic? Is that always the case?
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 08:15

I originally wanted an x-with-charon that represents a uvular fricative (with no corresponding /q/) but this forum's font doesn't like it and it doesn't display properly. The diareses was a compromise measure but I decided I'd rather just remove it altogether.

It's [ɯa]. Whether the first or the second vowel in a CVV sequence gets deleted during reduction is irregular, so when specifying morphemes you have to show both the fully expanded form used when non-final, and the reduced form when final.

Edit: Test: x x̌ X X̌

yeah
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 12:51

Caron? maybe?
Isn’t Charon the gondolier of the Styx?
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by DesEsseintes » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 13:11

Micamo wrote:
Wed 08 Aug 2018, 08:15
I originally wanted an x-with-charon that represents a uvular fricative (with no corresponding /q/) but this forum's font doesn't like it and it doesn't display properly. The diareses was a compromise measure but I decided I'd rather just remove it altogether.

[snip]

Edit: Test: x x̌ X X̌
I think you should go for it, be it with carons or diaereses. [B)]
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by gestaltist » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 15:47

I liked the dieresis better.
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 16:00

Another aesthetic. Untitled as of yet.

mbäbaŋo ndzumbobö dzadzü ŋgümbɔ
dzo jejï mindɛba dzündä mdzidzɛ̈bä njaŋɛ̈ jäjä
ŋdzïdzɛ̈ dzëgë ŋdɛmŋäŋi ŋbadzɛ ndzämgöfä ndzɔbɔ
julaga mdzamfɛ fämdzäjɔ nbepɛ wafɔ dzaŋta
dzämbambä nbeyägɛ mŋändzü njɛmgëtsɛ̈ ŋdumbö möŋkü
ŋdzɔ̈mgö fɔ̈npö jɛnfɛ fiŋbëmji ŋnönunjä mbügu biŋgɛ
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Birdlang » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 16:06

Nice, looks like Dinka. What does the diaresis stand for?
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 17:03

Breathy vowels, probably.
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 19:58

Another aesthetic, also unnamed:

yɨ́hpʼíląhtʰį pį́hšʰáh čʰɨ̨́šičįhyǫ́h
sąhkʼahnǫ kįhpʼohčʼąhsʰóh
pʼóhnįhpʰą́ čišohwóhpʼocʼɨ̨h mihsihnɨ̨čápʰǫ́sį́
cʰąmáh lǫ́cą́šoh pʰį́nąčʰɨ̨́hyį́cʰóhtah sʰɨhpácʼoh tɨ́šʰǫ́hpʼɨhkʰǫhwáh
šʰǫhpǫhtɨ́ pʰáhčʰayąnɨ́hya yǫ́tʼɨ́hkʼɨ̨hčʼɨ̨h sɨ̨́hnɨ̨́pį́hkʰíh
kʰáhsʰahčʼɨ casáhtá nį́sónǫ́h šɨ̨hnį́sɨ́ čʰǫ́hkʼąhpą
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Sat 11 Aug 2018, 15:24

Found a file on my hard drive titled "absoluteshit.txt" and found this inside. Don't remember writing any of it.

yiich'ikwan'ene k'uuwi san'axi xhwas'
weyiilashwahane x'uutsatet
tlehana'awu tlekushiinane xh'we tlehanet y'iina
yiishisalkyaak'ne xh'we wesay'anetsene sh'iixwalasket

I saw your face in the sky on that last day
The gods had carved your smile in starlight
You said "The saddest song is not the one that goes unheard, but unsung"
Though I cried out your name, only the wind dried my tears.

kómaikóhi píoxí bikóhi tixaópi
yobáko maióhotaóya maóxokó xái
kómaikóhi hiókohi tixaópi
xáko to níwaokó pápao bi xái
yawaó nibixó paí nibáyixó tionaí haí

Look for me in the untouched places
Where the streams are gilded by time
Look for me in the silent places
Where the word has no power
Though I may not speak, I always hear
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by eldin raigmore » Sat 11 Aug 2018, 19:46

I kinda like it!
I’d say any critic who called it “absolute shit” was, to say the least, overly harsh.
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by elemtilas » Sat 11 Aug 2018, 19:55

Micamo wrote:
Sat 11 Aug 2018, 15:24
Found a file on my hard drive titled "absoluteshit.txt" and found this inside. Don't remember writing any of it.

I saw your face in the sky on that last day
The gods had carved your smile in starlight
You said "The saddest song is not the one that goes unheard, but unsung"
Though I cried out your name, only the wind dried my tears.

Look for me in the untouched places
Where the streams are gilded by time
Look for me in the silent places
Where the word has no power
Though I may not speak, I always hear
Needs a better title!

I think it's beautiful.
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Sun 12 Aug 2018, 10:46

I don't like this

x̌aʔki húani náayuúki cáixaíki šáu
sáanuʔxi yúuhíisa naʔyaáhi čuúhíiniʔta
"ciʔ káuyúusa niáki yií x̌iʔčiíni saá kaʔyúuni" šaí níi
saá x̌aʔyaʔta xuíni, haú sáašiʔhu suʔsuúsa kaʔyaʔhíix̌a


Spoiler:
x̌aʔ-kií<ʔ>-0 húa-niʔ-0 náayuú-kiʔ cái=xaí-kiʔ šáu
1s.ERG-see<PERF>-3s.ABS face-2s.POSS-ABS sky-LOC DEM=day-LOC final
I saw your face in the sky on that last day

sáa-núa<ʔ>xií-0 yúu-híi-saʔ naʔyaá-híi-0 čuú-híi-niʔ-taʔ
3s.ERG-paint<PERF>-3s.ABS god-PL-ERG star-PL-ABS tooth-PL-2s.POSS-INST
The gods had carved your smile in starlight

ciʔ káuyúu-saʔ niá-kiʔ yií x̌ía<ʔ>čií-0-niʔ saá káu<ʔ>yúu-0-niʔ šaí níi
COP song-ERG sad all-LOC NEG hear<PERF>-3s.ABS-REL CONTR NEG sing<PERF>-3s.ABS-REL QUOT 2sg
You said "The saddest song is not the one that goes unheard, but unsung"

saá x̌aʔ-yáa<ʔ>taá-0 xuí-niʔ-0 haú sáa-šií<ʔ>húa-0 suʔsuú-saʔ kaʔyaʔ-híi-x̌aá-0
CONTR 1sg.ERG-yell<PERF>-3sg.ABS name-2s.POSS-ABS alone 3sg.ERG-collect<PERF>-3sg.ABS wind-ERG salt-water-PL-1sg.POSS-ABS
Though I cried out your name, only the wind dried my tears.
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Sun 12 Aug 2018, 20:06

Taking some suggestions from Des, Xuina 2.0:

niʔciúcaʔhahxuhča suhʔaáhíučahxu iíyiúčihnahšiʔcúuʔu náiʔúašuʔyuʔya uʔhuʔyaúhaúkuʔcahyi
nuʔhihcaúyúicuhʔa ʔáuʔaúsáinahxu úukiákiíháusihʔuúči iíčúuyuhyihx̌uhxuási
úutuhʔaúkiátuʔši uíšiíhuhyúiyíaca aʔsahʔihčahxaʔsa ahʔíusuhnáuna aáxiʔxaʔkuácúacaúxa
aáhihkiʔxaáxuʔx̌a ihnahx̌ihčuʔšu iúxuʔšíišiʔnáuhuhxi íasahsahxuhšaáni
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by Micamo » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 12:01

hmmmm

spʼɨ́hkʰǫhsʰóšʰiyɨ̨́hštʼɨ́ cʼǫ́scą́scʼǫšwįmį́hsnɨ̨́
syǫščą́hscíʔškʼočo kʰǫspʼǫ́ʔšlɨhšmą́hmɨ̨
wɨ̨́hsyósɨ̨́tʰɨ̨cɨ̨́ cɨyįkǫʔsʰah swóstą́šyą́mɨ́
scʰihšʰį́snítoh skʰɨ́šwǫ́mohspʰɨh pʼásmíʔyǫ́hpąpą́hyįh
pʰiswą́cįʔkʰɨ mɨ́škʰóʔnɨtʼą́h spʰɨ́ʔspʼɨ̨smǫlohsya
pʰį́hšpʼotʰɨ̨́spʰįssą́šsʰą́ tʼóʔwǫʔspʰóštʼįʔšpʰį́ pʰɨsmąyą́ʔšníʔsnǫ
yǫʔslǫhšnocá yašyɨ̨ʔskʼįhwišyɨ̨ šʰíhskahčʼɨmɨ̨́kʰá
wǫ́hswíhsyą́hnǫ́nįh škʼíhwą́ʔskóhcomí
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Re: Micalangs Scratchpad

Post by gestaltist » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 12:46

Micamo wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 20:06
Taking some suggestions from Des, Xuina 2.0:

niʔciúcaʔhahxuhča suhʔaáhíučahxu iíyiúčihnahšiʔcúuʔu náiʔúašuʔyuʔya uʔhuʔyaúhaúkuʔcahyi
nuʔhihcaúyúicuhʔa ʔáuʔaúsáinahxu úukiákiíháusihʔuúči iíčúuyuhyihx̌uhxuási
úutuhʔaúkiátuʔši uíšiíhuhyúiyíaca aʔsahʔihčahxaʔsa ahʔíusuhnáuna aáxiʔxaʔkuácúacaúxa
aáhihkiʔxaáxuʔx̌a ihnahx̌ihčuʔšu iúxuʔšíišiʔnáuhuhxi íasahsahxuhšaáni
This looks quite nice. Personally, I feel the glottal stop symbol makes the sample too heavy if it makes sense. I'd probably prefer if you used something else, perhaps the apostrophe?
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