Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Omzinesý
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 16:24

p t k
b d g
m n ŋ
s ʃ
z ʒ
l ʟ
r

Semivowels
ʋ j

and prestopped resonants:
bm dn gŋ
dl gʟ
dr

vowels
i u
ɛ ɑ

vowels can be short or long. There are three phonations: normal, creaky, and breathy voice.

Syllable:
(C)(semivowel)V(liquid or /n/ or /ŋ/)

Coda nasals nasalize the preceding vowel like in Mandarin.

Writing:
There are different symbols for onset and coda consonants, so syllable patterns are clear. There are also markers for semivowels vowel length and phonation. Vowel qualities are not normally marked.
Porphyrogenitos
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 17:00

gestaltist wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:57
I get p > /N_ but why would /g/ get devoiced? It doesn't make much sense unless there is some context to this I'm missing.
The second rule is also a bit weird. It's probably g p > ɣ ɸ > h h, right? I guess it makes sense in a minimalist phonology with few fricatives. But I'm still a bit iffy about it being unconditional.

r w > g b makes more sense to me with some intermediate stages. Maybe r w > l w > ʟ w > ɡ b
g > k /N_ and g > h, except with /ħ ~ x ~ h/ instead of just /h/, is actually what happens with the Galician gheada IRL. I don't know the exact phonetic motivation for it, but I assume that it's something like, as [g] exits the phonology, remaining [g] preserved by preceding nasals are merged into the closest similar phoneme.

And yes, g p > h h would probably involve some intermediate steps, but shifts like that are straightforward and common enough that I didn't feel the need to list any. Likewise with r w > g b, but both are attested as more or less unconditional changes, so I also just listed them as simple changes.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by gestaltist » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 21:44

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 17:00
gestaltist wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:57
I get p > /N_ but why would /g/ get devoiced? It doesn't make much sense unless there is some context to this I'm missing.
The second rule is also a bit weird. It's probably g p > ɣ ɸ > h h, right? I guess it makes sense in a minimalist phonology with few fricatives. But I'm still a bit iffy about it being unconditional.

r w > g b makes more sense to me with some intermediate stages. Maybe r w > l w > ʟ w > ɡ b
g > k /N_ and g > h, except with /ħ ~ x ~ h/ instead of just /h/, is actually what happens with the Galician gheada IRL. I don't know the exact phonetic motivation for it, but I assume that it's something like, as [g] exits the phonology, remaining [g] preserved by preceding nasals are merged into the closest similar phoneme.

And yes, g p > h h would probably involve some intermediate steps, but shifts like that are straightforward and common enough that I didn't feel the need to list any. Likewise with r w > g b, but both are attested as more or less unconditional changes, so I also just listed them as simple changes.
Thanks for the explanation. Do you perhaps remember where you found attestation for r > g?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 22:25

This is the phonology of my latest conlang project.

/(p) t (t͡ɬ) (t͡ʃ) k q/ <(p) t (tl) (ts) k q>
/pː tː t͡ɬː t͡ʃː kː qː/ <pp tt tl ts kk qq>
/b d d͡ʒ g/ <b d j g>
/bː dː d͡ʒː gː/ <bb dd jj gg>
/ɬ ʃ h/ <l s h>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nj ng>
/w/ <w>

Single /p t͡ɬ t͡ʃ/ only occur in the clusters /mp nt͡ɬ nt͡ʃ/.

/i u/ <i u>
/ə/ <ə>
/ɛ ɑ/ <e a>

/˥ ˨ ˧˨ˀ/ <a á a'>

There are no tone contrasts on the reduced vowel /ə/, which generally functions as an unstressed epenthetic vowel.

Syllable structure is (C)(w)V(n)(C), where the glide /w/ does not occur after /w ɲ/ or before the vowel /u/. Coda consonants are restricted to /t k q b d d͡ʒ g ɬ ʃ h m n ɲ ŋ w/ and clusters are restricted to /mp nt nt͡ɬ nt͡ʃ ŋk ɴq/. Furthermore when a coda stop (including when in a cluster) would occur before another consonant a schwa /ə/ is inserted. Furthermore coda nasals assimilate to the POA of a following obstruent. As an additional restriction word-initial consonants are restricted to /t k q b d d͡ʒ g ɬ ʃ h w/, again of which all but the last two may be followed by /w/.

There are a series of consonant mutations which operate on the set of word-initial consonants. There are two mutations: the T- and N-mutations. These are summarised on the table below:

Code: Select all

  T  N
h pp mp
t tt nt
k kk nk
q qq nq
b bb m
d dd n
j jj nj
g gg ng
s ts nts
l tl ntl
0 t  n
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Clio » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 01:08

A more finished version of the phonology that I started sketching here:

/m n/ <m n>
/pː tː cː kː/ <p t kj k> ("fortis" plosives)
/p t c k/ <b d gj g> ("lenis" plosives)
/ts̪ ts̠/ <tz ts> ("fortis" affricates)
/s̪ s̠/ <z s> ("lenis" fricatives)
/l ʎ j/ <l lj j>
/i e a u o ʌ (ɨ)/ <i e a o u ë (ë)>
/iː eː aː uː oː ʌː/ <ii ee aa uu oo ëë>
/ei ai ui ou ʌi/ <ei ai ui ou ëi>
/˥ ˧˥ ˥˩/ (unwritten)

/ɨ/ occurs as an epenthetic vowel to break up illegal consonant clusters and as an allophone of toneless /ʌ/. When consonant clusters are broken up, the coda of the leftmost syllable is maximized.

Up to two syllables in a polysyllabic word can carry tone, and tone is minimally contrastive. It is possible to determine the pitch of every syllable in a word by applying at most three rules after all epenthetic vowels have been inserted; for these rules, diphthongs pattern with long vowels, and a syllable is heavy if and only if it either contains a long vowel or ends in a consonant cluster (where the fortis consonants are considered singletons). Words of one and two syllables require only rule (1), as do words of three syllables with a light penult; other words require all three rules.
  1. The first syllable of every word is accented. If the vowel in that syllable is short, it takes high tone. If the vowel is long, it can take either rising or falling tone.
  2. If the penult is heavy, then it also is accented: a short vowel receives high tone, and a long vowel takes falling tone.
  3. If the penult is light, then it is accented: a short vowel receives high tone, and a long vowel take rising tone.
After all the tones in a word are assigned, then the tones of adjacent syllables are adjusted as follows:
  1. If two vowels with rising tone are adjacent, the first tone becomes falling; similarly, if two vowels with falling tone are adjacent, the first tone becomes rising.
  2. If a high tone is followed by a falling tone, the first vowel loses its tone.
Otherwise, all tones remain as they were.

Long vowels do not occur before fortis consonants, but they can occur before clusters.

The maximal syllable has the form CCVCCC. Permitted word-initial clusters are: /mn/; any plosive followed by /l/ or /n/; and any of /p(ː) k(ː)/ followed by /t(ː)/. Word-finally, clusters can consist of: /l ʎ n/ followed by any plosive, affricate, or fricative; /m/ followed by a plosive; a fricative followed by a plosive; or /l ʎ n/ followed by a fricative then a plosive. Between vowels, clusters can be any of the above. In addition, a fricative may precede any cluster that would be legal word-initially; and /l ʎ m n/ may follow any plosive or fricative, even if they are preceded by one of /l ʎ m n/.

Within clusters and in adjacent syllables, coronals harmonize right-to-left between the classes /t(ː) (t)s̪ l/ and /c(ː) (t)s̠ ʎ/. /n/ also has an allophone [ɲ] before a consonant of the second set (but not in an adjacent syllable).

Before /k(ː)/, /m/ has an allophone [ŋ].

Lenis consonants undergo voicing in word-initial position, in intervocalic position, and in clusters with voiced consonants such that /p t c k s̪ s̠/ become [b d ɟ g z̪ ɻ] respectively. Fortis consonants undergo a different form of weakening in word-initial position and in all clusters such that /pː tː cː kː ts̪ ts̠/ become [p t c k s̪ s̠] respectively.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 08:20

I kinda like this vowel inventory, but I'm not sure if I'll ever make even a quick shitty start of a conlang that uses it.

/ɑ ə i ʊ/
/aˑ ɛˑ ɤˑ ɞˑ/
/ɑː æː eː iː ɵː uː/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 23:57

Vlürch wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 08:20
I kinda like this vowel inventory, but I'm not sure if I'll ever make even a quick shitty start of a conlang that uses it.

/ɑ ə i ʊ/
/aˑ ɛˑ ɤˑ ɞˑ/
/ɑː æː eː iː ɵː uː/
What do you like about it?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » Tue 09 Jan 2018, 14:07

The proto-lang:

*p *t *c *k *ʔ
*h
*m *n *ŋ
*l

*i *u
*e *a

Syllable structure was CV(*ʔ, *h, *n), where syllable codas only appeared word-finally. The language was agglutinative-isolating with disyllabic roots.

The daughter-lang:

/p t tɬ tʂ tʃ k ʔ/
/p’ t’ tɬ’ tʂ’ tʃ’ k’/
/ⁿb ⁿd ⁿdɮ ⁿdʐ ⁿdʒ ⁿg/
/ɓ ɗ/
/f s ɬ ʂ ʃ x h/
/m n ŋ/
/m̥ n̥/
/l ɽ j w/

/i u/
/e ɤ o/
/ɛ ɑ/

Vowels may occur in nasal, creaky or breathy voice.

Syllable structure is CV.

The language is strongly polysynthetic.

Example words:

*late > ɽe
*ʔakuh > k’o̤
*himun > m̥ũ
*niʔaʔ > ɗɤ̰
*kuten > tʂẽ
*melu > ⁿdɮo
*tike > te
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch » Wed 10 Jan 2018, 16:32

eldin raigmore wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 23:57
Vlürch wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 08:20
I kinda like this vowel inventory, but I'm not sure if I'll ever make even a quick shitty start of a conlang that uses it.

/ɑ ə i ʊ/
/aˑ ɛˑ ɤˑ ɞˑ/
/ɑː æː eː iː ɵː uː/
What do you like about it?
I'm not sure, but I guess the idea of three vowel lengths with a distinct quality as mid-length and "splitting up" is appealing to me. You know, like the short and long /ɑ/ and /ɑː/ being back while the half-long one is front /aˑ/, the half-long /ɛˑ/ being intermediate in quality between the long /æː/ and /eː/, etc.

Something like this could also be interesting to work with:

/ɑ ɘ ɯ/
/ʌˑ ɔˑ ɛˑ œˑ iˑ yˑ/
/ɒː ɵː uː/

...ie. something where short vowels are unrounded while their long counterparts are rounded (or vice versa), and half-long ones are both (in addition to having some quality difference).
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Fri 12 Jan 2018, 14:31

/m n/
/t k ʔ/
/h/
/r w/

/a i/

Circumflexes should feature somehow.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Fri 12 Jan 2018, 18:27

That looks surprisingly familiar, Des...
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Sat 13 Jan 2018, 05:49

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Fri 12 Jan 2018, 18:27
That looks surprisingly familiar, Des...
You mean to say that it looks like all my other inventories? If so, you’re probably right. [:)]
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Sat 13 Jan 2018, 09:13

Didn't you post that in the chat as well? Cuz that's what I meant.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Adarain » Sat 13 Jan 2018, 10:36

DesEsseintes wrote:
Fri 12 Jan 2018, 14:31
/m n/
/t k ʔ/
/h/
/r w/

/a i/

Circumflexes should feature somehow.
Obviously /k ʔ/ ⟨k k̂⟩ ← that’s a combining diacritic, this forum’s font is bad.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Sat 13 Jan 2018, 11:22

Adarain wrote:
Sat 13 Jan 2018, 10:36
DesEsseintes wrote:
Fri 12 Jan 2018, 14:31
/m n/
/t k ʔ/
/h/
/r w/

/a i/

Circumflexes should feature somehow.
Obviously /k ʔ/ ⟨k k̂⟩ ← that’s a combining diacritic, this forum’s font is bad.
Interesting. Thanks for the idea, but I’m almost certainly going to be using â î.
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Sat 13 Jan 2018, 09:13
Didn't you post that in the chat as well? Cuz that's what I meant.
Yes, I posted it in both places at the same time.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » Sat 13 Jan 2018, 17:20

Make of this what you will.

The proto-language

*p *t *k
*s
*m *n *ŋ
*w *j

*e *a *o
*z̩ *ɣ̩ *v̩

Syllable structure is CV. The syllabic fricatives only occur after obstruents.

The daughter

/p t t͡s k/
/x h/
/m n ŋ/
/w ɻ j/

/i iː u uː/
/eː oː/
/a aː/

Syllable structure is (C)V.

Sound changes:

*p, *t, *k, *s > ɸ, t͡s, x, ʐ before syllabic fricatives.
*z̩, *ɣ̩, *v̩ > i, a, u
e, o > i, u
ɸ > 0
ai, ia > e:
au, ua > o:
iu, ii > i:
ui, uu > u:
aa > a:
s > h
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » Fri 19 Jan 2018, 15:39

Proto-language

*p *t~ɾ *k
*s *h
*m *n

*i *a *u

*t was realised as a flap intervocalically.

Syllable structure was CV(C), where any consonant could appear in either the onset or coda.

Sound changes:

*p, *t > *w, *j before another consonant.
*h > 0
*k > ʔ
*ɾ > *ʒ / _i
*s > *ʃ / _i
*t > ts / _i
*t > k
*s > h
V > 0 / VC_CV, VC_#
Vowel - coda consonant resolution:

Code: Select all

   w   j    ʔ    s  m    n
i (j)u i   (j)e  s̩ (j)õ (j)ẽ
a  o   e    a    a  õ    ẽ
u  u  (w)i (w)o  s̩ (w)õ (w)ẽ
ẽ > a
õ > o
*ʃ > s
*ʒ > ɻ

The daughter language:

/p t͡s k ʔ/ <p c k ‘>
/s h/ <s h>
/m n/ <m n>
/w ɻ j/ <w r y>
/r/ <rr>

/i u/ <i u>
/e o/ <e o>
/a s̩/ <a s>

Syllable structure is (C)V(C), where any consonant may occur in the onset or coda, with the additional restriction that rhotics may not occur word-initially. When the two rhotics come into contact the glide is deleted.
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