Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Mon 06 Aug 2018, 04:20

DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 05 Aug 2018, 19:25
This is Čawač, an idea for an a priori Algonquianino that I came up with because I can’t sleep.

/n/ n
/t t͡s t͡ʃ k/ t c č k
/θ s ʃ/ θ s š
/r j w/ r y w

/a e i o u/ a e i o u
/a e i o u/ ā ē ī ō ū

Fairly free clustering, normally restricted to two consonants.
shimobaatar wrote:
Mon 06 Aug 2018, 03:06
Are there initial and/or final clusters, or are clusters exclusively word-internal?
Not sure yet, but I think some initial and final clusters will be permitted.
Does "Algonquianino" mean anything specific, or is it just a random corruption of "Algonquian"?
It was just an offhand hypocorism I came up with as I typed the post, I’m afraid. As far as I’m aware, it’s not an established term.
Also, if you'll excuse my nit-picking, I assume you meant something like /aː eː iː oː uː/ for ā ē ī ō ū?
Thanks for the catch. I’ve edited it in. [:)]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » Tue 07 Aug 2018, 17:25

A phonology created by the interbreeding of Xavante, Rotokas and Swedish

consonants:

voiceless: /p t ts~s ʔ/
voiced: /m~b~v n~d~z~r ɲ~j/

vowels:
tense: /i: e: ɛ: ɑ: o: u: ø: y:/
lax: /ɪ ɛ a ɔ ʊ œ ʏ/

syllable structure: at least (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)(C), maybe more consonants can appear in a syllable.

note on vowels: in stressed syllables, the vowel is a lax one if the syllable is closed and ends in at leat two consonants, and the vowel is a tense one if the syllable is open. In closed syllable ending with a single consonant, either vowels can appear.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 16:23

A little sketch
/p t k ʔ f s ɕ h l j w~ɣʷ ʀ i y ʉ ɯ u ʊ e ø ɤ o ə ɛ œ ʌ ɔ æ a ɒ N/ p t k q f s c h l j v r i ü û ï u w e ö ë o y è ô ê ò ä a å *
*the mora /N/ is a nasal /m n ɲ ŋ/ after a consonant of the same phonation or in the middle of a word, romanized as m n ń ñ
At the end of a syllable before a consonant, or at the end of a word, nasalizes the vowel, romanized as į ū ú ī ù ÿ ę ō ē œ é õ ė ó æ ã â
Any comments? I’ll be posting more languages after.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » Wed 08 Aug 2018, 17:03

Birdlang wrote:
Wed 08 Aug 2018, 16:23
A little sketch
/p t k ʔ f s ɕ h l j w~ɣʷ ʀ i y ʉ ɯ u ʊ e ø ɤ o ə ɛ œ ʌ ɔ æ a ɒ N/ p t k q f s c h l j v r i ü û ï u w e ö ë o y è ô ê ò ä a å *
*the mora /N/ is a nasal /m n ɲ ŋ/ after a consonant of the same phonation or in the middle of a word, romanized as m n ń ñ
At the end of a syllable before a consonant, or at the end of a word, nasalizes the vowel, romanized as į ū ú ī ù ÿ ę ō ē œ é õ ė ó æ ã â
Any comments? I’ll be posting more languages after.
you don't seem to have nasals as phonemes though...you forgot to list them?

maybe next time sort sounds according to manners of articulation?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Linguifex » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:42

k1234567890y wrote:
Wed 08 Aug 2018, 17:03
you don't seem to have nasals as phonemes though...you forgot to list them?

maybe next time sort sounds according to manners of articulation?
|N| is the nasal, it just shows up different depending on context.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:46

Linguifex wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:42
k1234567890y wrote:
Wed 08 Aug 2018, 17:03
you don't seem to have nasals as phonemes though...you forgot to list them?

maybe next time sort sounds according to manners of articulation?
|N| is the nasal, it just shows up different depending on context.
ok

sorry to birdlang
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 20:38

k1234567890y wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:46
Linguifex wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:42
k1234567890y wrote:
Wed 08 Aug 2018, 17:03
you don't seem to have nasals as phonemes though...you forgot to list them?

maybe next time sort sounds according to manners of articulation?
|N| is the nasal, it just shows up different depending on context.
ok

sorry to birdlang
It’s ok. The /N/ idea comes from Japanese but twisted a bit.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:03

An auxlang for my conworld, second romanization is more Eurocentric
/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/ p b t d ţ ḑ k g ˀ / p b t d ť ď k g ʼ
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ņ ŋ m n ň ŋ
/f v s z ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ ç~xʲ ʝ~ɣʲ x ɣ ħ ʕ ɦ/ f v s z ş ȥ ś ź ç j c ĵ ĥ ġ h / f v s z š ž ś ź ş ȥ x ğ ħ ǥ h
/t͡s d͡z t͡ʃ d͡ʒ t͡ɕ d͡ʑ c͡ç~k͡xʲ ɟ͡ʝ~g͡ɣʲ/ ṡ ż ŝ ẑ ṣ ẓ ȼ ɉ / c dz č dž ć dź ç dȥ
/ʋ l ɹ j ʎ ɥ w ɰ/ ŭ l ṙ ĭ y̌ ŷ ŵ w̌ / vh l ŗ j ľ ĵ w ŵ
/r ʀ/ r r̄ / r ř
/ɬ ɮ/ ƚ ʒ ł ƶ

/i y ɨ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ɪ̈ ʊ̜ ʊ e ø ɘ ɤ o əˁ ω ɛ œ ɜ ɜˁ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɒ̈ a ɶ ɑ ɒ/ i ü y ï u ì ȕ ỳ ȉ ù e ö ɘ ë o ə w è ȍ ə̀ ẁ ȅ ò æ œ æ̀ œ̀ a à
ī ǖ ȳ ï̄ ū i ü y ï u ē ȫ ȭ ë̄ ō ǡ ǟ e ö õ ȧ ä ë o æ œ ǣ œ̄ ā a
Long vowels are actually the tense vowels, shorter ones are the lax ones. Nasal vowels are written as V + ñ or V + ņ.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:19

Birdlang wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 20:38
k1234567890y wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:46
Linguifex wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:42
k1234567890y wrote:
Wed 08 Aug 2018, 17:03
you don't seem to have nasals as phonemes though...you forgot to list them?

maybe next time sort sounds according to manners of articulation?
|N| is the nasal, it just shows up different depending on context.
ok

sorry to birdlang
It’s ok. The /N/ idea comes from Japanese but twisted a bit.
ok nice (:

I guess they only allow nasals at syllable codas?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:22

k1234567890y wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:19
Birdlang wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 20:38
k1234567890y wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:46
Linguifex wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 00:42
k1234567890y wrote:
Wed 08 Aug 2018, 17:03
you don't seem to have nasals as phonemes though...you forgot to list them?

maybe next time sort sounds according to manners of articulation?
|N| is the nasal, it just shows up different depending on context.
ok

sorry to birdlang
It’s ok. The /N/ idea comes from Japanese but twisted a bit.
ok nice (:

I guess they only allow nasals at syllable codas?
Yeah. At the beginning, it disappears.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:36

Birdlang wrote:
Thu 09 Aug 2018, 21:22
Yeah. At the beginning, it disappears.
nice (:
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » Fri 10 Aug 2018, 04:15

A simple vowel thing:

Code: Select all

        [+stress]  [-stress]
/i/     [i]        [i]
/e/     [e]        [i]
/a/     [a]        [ə]
/o/     [o]        [u]
/u/     [u]        [u]
/ai̯/   [ai̯]      [e]
/au̯/   [au̯]      [o]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » Fri 10 Aug 2018, 05:47

Also, sorry to double-post, but here's a revision of something Frislander did quite some time ago for my 26-syllable challenge:

/pʷ pʲ tʷ sʲ/
/mʷ mʲ nʷ ɲ/
/ɾʷ ʎ/
/w βʲ j/

/ɨ a/

/ɨ/ is realized as [u] after labialized consonants and [i] after palatalized consonants. Word-initial /jɨ/ and /wɨ/ are realized as [i] and [u].

Syllable structure is CVC; however, word-final unstressed /ɨ/ is deleted, creating some surface-level final CC clusters. Consonants assimilate in secondary articulation to the following consonant in a cluster, except in certain cases like compounding or prefixation.

In some varieties, further tendencies towards deleting /ɨ/ in unstressed position (e.g. perhaps immediately after the stressed syllable) may create word-internal or word-final CCC clusters. In these cases the above-described assimilation rule may be complicated.

I changed Frislander's velarization to labialization, since I like labialization (and find it easier to articulate than velarization), though the labial consonants still are more back/velarized too - I guess they really are labiovelarized. I'm still deliberating over whether to add some kind of glottal consonant, perhaps as a reflex of a past velar. But would it have a labialized-palatalized pair? Or would it have its own behavior? Or maybe I should just add a single velar /kʷ/, with its former palatalized counterpart having merged with /sʲ/.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Linguifex » Fri 10 Aug 2018, 07:47

Might make this a minority language in my setting:

/m n nʲ/ m n ñ
/p t tʲ k/ p t j c/qu
/f s ʃ x h/ f s x g h
/ts tɬ/ tz tl
/l j/ l y

/i iː e eː ɛ ɛː a aː ɔ ɔː o oː/ i í e é eh éh a á oh óh o ó (before y, the contrast in the mid vowels is neutralized in favor of the close vowels)

Syllable structure (X)(C)(R)V(L), where
  • X = /s ʃ/,
  • C = any consonant,
  • R = any sonorant,
  • V = a vowel,
  • N = a nasal,
  • S = a stop or affricate, and
  • L = a coda with the following conditions:
    • Any single sonorant may appear, or
    • Any nasal plus any stop or affricate may appear, or
    • /j/ + any stop, affricate, or /l/ may appear, or
    • /l/ may appear by itself, or
    • A following singleton consonant geminates if it is in immediate prevocalic position.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 10 Aug 2018, 09:09

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
Fri 10 Aug 2018, 04:15
A simple vowel thing:

Code: Select all

        [+stress]  [-stress]
/i/     [i]        [i]
/e/     [e]        [i]
/a/     [a]        [ə]
/o/     [o]        [u]
/u/     [u]        [u]
/ai̯/   [ai̯]      [e]
/au̯/   [au̯]      [o]
I like the chain-shift like properties of this [:)]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » Fri 10 Aug 2018, 20:53

Code: Select all

/m n ɲ ŋ/
m n ň ŋ

Code: Select all

/p t ts tɬ tʃ k q/
p t c tl č k q

Code: Select all

/f s ɬ ʃ x χ h/
f s ł š x ḥ h

Code: Select all

/w r l j/
w r l y
/i u iː uː/
i u ii uu

Code: Select all

/e o eː oː/
e o ee oo

Code: Select all

/ɛ ʌ ɛː ʌː/
ɛ ʌ ɛɛ ʌʌ

Code: Select all

/æ ɑ æː ɑː/
æ a ææ aa

There used to be a more productive +/- ATR vowel system but much of that collapsed leaving only the mid vowels to differentiate. Mid-close /e/ for instance cannot co-occur in the same (non-compound) word as /ɛ/ or /ʌ/. The acquisition of the uvular stop and fricative is the result of areal affects of the substrate languages. This also helped the collapse of the +/- ATR harmony system as uvulars tend to erase distinctions and make all nearby sounds -ATR.

There are two tones, High Tone (marked with an acute accent á) and Low Tone (which is unmarked). The combination of a low and a high tone in long vowels results in basic contour tones of Rising Tone and Falling Tone indicated (aá for Rising and áa for Falling tone, for high level tone áá and low level tone aa)

Basic syllable structure is (C(w,j))V(C)(C)

More specifically at onset, any bilabial consonant can form a cluster with /j/ - /mj, pj, fj, wj/ and any velar or uvular consonant can take a /w/, /ŋw, kw, xw, qw, χw/.

For any single consonant in the coda -C, any sound can occur save for /j w/ which, do however form geminates if only intervocalically. Coda /h/ is quite common and is currently messing around with some allotony but I'll get to that in another post that's more suited to that.

Allowable coda-clusters -CC:
  • l+C clusters: /lm ln lŋ lp lt lts ltʃ lk lf lx/
  • r+C clusters: /rp rt rts rtɬ rtʃ rk rs rɬ rʃ rx/
  • FC clusters: /fʃ/
The /fʃ/ cluster is rare and is from a borrowing from a neighboring language which does a lot of trading and a fairly sizeable amount of intermarrying.

Lastly, though it does happen, it is important to note that though the theoretical syllable maximum is indeed CwVCC or CjVCC, these syllables are exceedingly rare though the words /pjɑːrʃ/ "dock; wharf; shipyard" and /kwʌlx/ "phlegm; bile; disrespect" exist, they are no common, typically a syllable will have V, CV, VC, CVC, CCV, CVCC structure instead.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Sun 12 Aug 2018, 17:25

Híí 5.3

Híí has now lost /k/ altogether:

/m n/ m n
/b t g ʔ/ b t g ’
/t͡s t͡ɬ t͡ʃ/ ts tł ch
/ɸ s θ ɬ (ʃ) h/ f s þ ł sh h
/z (r) l (w)/ z r l w

/e i o/ e ı o + length and diphthongs

Instead of the complex allophony I came up with in Híí 5.2 as an excuse for having both of /k g/, I now have a simple explanation for the unusual set of stops in the language. The language basically just has labial, alveolar, velar and glottal stops, but it just so happens that the unconditioned (e.g. intervocalic) realisations of the labial and velar stops happen to be voiced, while the alveolar and glottal stops are generally always voiceless.

Apart from the single word kéłłben which was always one of my favourites, I’ve never found k easy to use in Híí, and now I’ve discovered a way to do away with it. kéłłben will have to be sacrificed, but so be it. It’s for the greater good of the language.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar » Sun 12 Aug 2018, 18:09

DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 17:25
Híí 5.3
Hi again, Híí!
DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 17:25
/ɸ s θ ɬ (ʃ) h/ f s þ ł sh h
/z (r) l (w)/ z r l w

/e i o/ e ı o + length and diphthongs
What do the parentheses indicate? Do those sounds only show up as allophones?

Also, which diphthongs are allowed? Can any two-vowel combination form a diphthong?
DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 17:25
Apart from the single word kéłłben which was always one of my favourites, I’ve never found k easy to use in Híí, and now I’ve discovered a way to do away with it. kéłłben will have to be sacrificed, but so be it. It’s for the greater good of the language.
You could keep /k/ as a marginal phoneme found esseintially in only that one word.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » Sun 12 Aug 2018, 19:46

shimobaatar wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 18:09
DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 17:25
Híí 5.3
Hi again, Híí!
Híí Híí!
DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 17:25
/ɸ s θ ɬ (ʃ) h/ f s þ ł sh h
/z (r) l (w)/ z r l w

/e i o/ e ı o + length and diphthongs
What do the parentheses indicate? Do those sounds only show up as allophones?
Yes.

[ʃ] is an allophone of /s/ in the environment _{t͡ɬ t͡ʃ}

[r w] are the intervocalic allophones of /z l/

I always include these three allophones in my phonology because - unlike other allophones - they have their own orthographic representations.
Also, which diphthongs are allowed? Can any two-vowel combination form a diphthong?
The diphthongs are /ei oi/. There is no length distinction on diphthongs.
DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 17:25
Apart from the single word kéłłben which was always one of my favourites, I’ve never found k easy to use in Híí, and now I’ve discovered a way to do away with it. kéłłben will have to be sacrificed, but so be it. It’s for the greater good of the language.
You could keep /k/ as a marginal phoneme found esseintially in only that one word.
I could, but probably won’t. [:)]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Thu 16 Aug 2018, 00:00

/p t c k q/ p t ti/ty/it/yt/c k ḱ
/f s ð ç ʃ ɣ ħ h/ f s th z si/sy/is/ys/x g ǵ h
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ni/ny/in/yn/gn ń
/ɹ j w/ r i/y u/w
/l ʎ/ l li/ly/il/yl/gli/gly/igl/ygl/lh
/ɬ/ j

/i y e ø ɛ/ i ü é ö è
/ə a/ e a
/u o ʊ ɔ ʌ/ u ó o ò ä
Letter spellings
ni/li/si/ti/gli next to high vowels other than /i/
ny/ly/sy/ty/gly next to central and low vowels other than /a o u/
Used as initial.
the inverted versions are the same but used as syllable or word final. Usually word final.
Next to the vowels mentioned, gn/lh/x/c are used.

/p b t d c ɟ k g ʔ/ p b t d ǩ/ky ǧ/gy k g ʔ/ʼ
/f v s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ ħ ʕ h ɦ/ f v s z š/sy ž/zy x ġ/ǥ ħ ʕ/għ h ꜧ/ⱨ
/ts dz tʃ dʒ/ c j ť/ty ď/dy
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ň/ny ŋ/nġ
/j w/ y w
/r/ r
/l ʎ/ l ľ/ly

/i ɨ u e o ə ʌ a/ i ü u e o ö ä a
/aː/ ā
/a˩ a˨ a˧ a˦ a˥ a˧˥ a˥˧ a˧˩ a˩˥/ aɩ aƨ aꝫ aꜭ aƽ aỽ aɟ aȣ aꝯ or ã à â á ă ả ą a̍ ạ
Tones only occur on non-stressed syllables
Stressed syllables are recognized for not having a tone mark
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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