Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Jampot911
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Jampot911 » Sat 28 Apr 2018, 14:51

Frislander wrote:
Sat 28 Apr 2018, 11:05
/i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
What can I say? I like making stuff up.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » Sat 28 Apr 2018, 15:10

Jampot911 wrote:
Sat 28 Apr 2018, 14:51
Frislander wrote:
Sat 28 Apr 2018, 11:05
/i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
uncertain about the allophone parts, but the arrangement /a e i o/ is attested in natural languages.

http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41583 < here there is a list of vowel systems in natural languages.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » Sat 28 Apr 2018, 20:47

Jampot911 wrote:
Sat 28 Apr 2018, 14:51
Frislander wrote:
Sat 28 Apr 2018, 11:05
/i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
That's what I meant, yes.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Tue 01 May 2018, 00:48

I made an inventory using all 26 English letters.
/m n ŋ ɲ/ m n q j
/p ᵐb t nd k ᵑg/ p b t d k g
/f v s z [θ ð] ɣ h/ f v s z s z c h
/w l r j ɰ/ w l r y x
/i u e o a/ i u e o a
A more digraph one would be
m n ng ny
p b t d k g
f v s/th z/dh gh h
w l r y wh
i u e o a
More diacritics would be
m n ŋ ɲ
p b t d k g
f v s/ϑ z/δ ǥ h
w l r j ẃ
i u e o a
The allophones happen before triphthongs or diphthongs. Which would be /ae ao ei eu oe ou iae iao/ ae ao ee eo oe oo iae iao
Other language I’m working on, minimal
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by sangi39 » Tue 01 May 2018, 04:16

Birdlang wrote:
Tue 01 May 2018, 00:48
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » Thu 03 May 2018, 17:33

sangi39 wrote:
Tue 01 May 2018, 04:16
Birdlang wrote:
Tue 01 May 2018, 00:48
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
I like the orthography for it. But the one thing that glares at me is the glottalized voiceless alveolar stop /tˀ/. It seems quite out of place. Which, in fairness, can totally happen IRL I'm sure. But it feels sort of thrown in. I'd expect perhaps a series of retroflexes? Idk.

But, I do like it.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » Thu 03 May 2018, 18:02

I've been making strides with a conlang but I was thinking I would like to have some of its neighboring languages should be quite dissimilar to it.

I have a strong urge to make a language with many series of stops, I was thinking of going to as many as 5 series of stops, a basic 3 (maybe 4) vowel system with length contrast.

I don't know how naturalistic this is though.

Here's my thought on the basic phonemic inventory.

Nasals m n ɲ ŋ
Voiced Stops b d ɟ g
Unaspirated Stops p t c k
Aspirated Stops pʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ
Ejectives pʼ tʼ cʼ kʼ
Pre-Nasal Clicks ᵑǃ ᵑǁ
Aspirated Clicks ǃʰ ǁʰ
Fricatives s x h
Trills r
Approximants w j

(Maybe Prenasalized Implosives ᵐɓ ⁿɗ ᶮʄ ᵑɠ)

Short Vowels ɪ ʊ ɛ ɑ
Long Vowels iː uː eː ɑː

For the series of stops I was also debating on having a pre-nasal series. Then, as I kept pronouncing pre-nasal voiced stops they became implosivized, which was weird. So I was debating on potentially a pre-nasalized implosive series as well. That may be a bit kitchen-sinky though. Opinons are welcome if this basic sketch warrants any.

Also, potentially I'd want a basic High/Low Tone system too.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Thu 10 May 2018, 23:51

A different protolang
/m n ŋ/ m n ŋ or m n ng
/p pʰ t tʰ k kʰ ʔ/ b p d t g k q or b p d t g k j
/f s ʂ ʐ~ɻ ɕ ç x h/ f s z r x j ĥ h or f s sh r x xy h xh
/l j ɥ w/ l y ÿ w or l y~i ÿ~ü w~u
/ɬ ʎ̝̊ ʟ̝̊/ Ɨ ⱡ ɫ or lh ly ll

/i y ʉ ɯ u e ø ɵ ɤ o ɛ œ ɞ ʌ ɔ a ɶ ɒ̈ ɑ ɒ/ plus length i ü ů ï u é ö ô e o è õ ø ŏ ò a ơ ä ɑ ɒ plus macron or i ü û ï u é ö ô e o è ó ø ô ò a ē ō â å plus double vowels
/Ṽ/ Vƞ or Vnh
I’m trying to think of how I could evolve different languages from these. The first one is more diacritic laden and the second is more Pinyin-influenced. I’m making this language for a humanoid species.
My other protolang I’m working on
/m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ/ <m mv n ṇ ň ŋ ŋq>
/p b p̪ b̪ t d t̪ d̪ ʈ ɖ c ɟ k g q ɢ ʡ ʔ/ <p b pv bv t d ŧ đ ṭ ḍ ť ď k g kġ gġ x q>
/ɸ β f v θ~ʂ ð~ʐ s z ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ x ɣ ʁ ħ ʕ h ɦ/ <f ḇ fv ḇv ṣ ẓ s z ş z̧ š ž ḵ ḡ ḡġ ħ c h ḫ>
/ʋ ɹ l j/ <v r l j>
/ɢ̆/ <ġ>
/ɖɽ ɽr/ <ḍr dr>
/ɭ̝̊ ɬʲː/ <ḷ lľ>
/ʎ̆ ʟ̆/ <ľ ł>

/iː yː uː ɪ ʏ ʊ eː øː oː œ ɔ æː ɐ ɑː ɒ̃ æ̃/ <ii yy uu i y u e øø oo ø o æ a aa ǫ ą>
/V̤ V̰ Vˀ Vˁ Vʰ Vʲ V˞ Vʷ/ <Vh Vḫ Vq Vc Vħ Vj Vr Vv>
Thanks shimobaatar for helping me romanize it. Nice to see how you used the Somali c for the voiced pharyngeal fricative.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » Fri 18 May 2018, 07:35

A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:

i iː > i ei̯
e eː > e ai̯
a aː > a au̯
o oː > o eː
u uː > u iː
ai̯ au̯ > aː oː
oi̯ eu̯ > uː ou̯
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore » Fri 18 May 2018, 22:11

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
Fri 18 May 2018, 07:35
A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:
What?!? We Southrons have _always_ pronounced vowels exactly as they _should_ be pronounced!!




😏
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 19 May 2018, 01:30

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
Fri 18 May 2018, 07:35
A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:

i iː > i ei̯
e eː > e ai̯
a aː > a au̯
o oː > o eː
u uː > u iː
ai̯ au̯ > aː oː
oi̯ eu̯ > uː ou̯
I really like this!
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Sun 20 May 2018, 22:46

Some quick sketches
Lituko
/m n ŋ p t k ʔ f s ʃ h l w j i u ə ɑ ɒ/ m n g p t k q f s x h l w y i u e a o
Toj
/n t k ʔ s ʂ h ɺ j i ɯ e ɤ a/ n t k ' s c h r j i u e o a
Baceqoki
/m n ŋ ɲ p pʰ t tʰ c cʰ k kʰ ʔ f v s z ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ h ɦ l ɹ w j ɾ ɬ ʎ i ɨ u e o ə a ɑ/ m n ng gn b p d t j c g k q f v s z š ž ś ź x ġ h gh l ŗ w y r ł gl i ı u e o ė a ȧ
Moñño
/m n ɲ b t d k ʔ f s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ ħ ʕ h l w j ɾ i u ɘ ɛ ɔ ə ɑ/ m n ñ b t d k q f s z š ž ḫ ǥ ħ ƣ l w y r i u ē e o ā a
Dot Island language
/m n ŋ p t k ʔ ɕ h w ɾ i iː u uː e eː o oː ɑ ɑː ɑi ɑu ei eu oi ou/ m n g p t k ʻ s h w r i ī u ū e ē o ō a ā ae ao ei eu oe ou
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » Sun 20 May 2018, 23:45

wintiver wrote:
Thu 03 May 2018, 17:33
sangi39 wrote:
Tue 01 May 2018, 04:16
Birdlang wrote:
Tue 01 May 2018, 00:48
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
I like the orthography for it. But the one thing that glares at me is the glottalized voiceless alveolar stop /tˀ/. It seems quite out of place. Which, in fairness, can totally happen IRL I'm sure. But it feels sort of thrown in. I'd expect perhaps a series of retroflexes? Idk.

But, I do like it.
The glottalized stop came from a retroflex t.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » Fri 25 May 2018, 15:22

/p t k k͡p/
/t͡s~t͡ʃ/
/s~ʃ h~ç/
/ɾ ɣ~j w/

/i ɪ~ɨ o~u/
/ɛ~æ ɑ/

The main difference between /i/ and /ɨ/ is the presence vs. absence respectively on a preceding consonant. The consonants which show this most obviously are /t͡s~t͡ʃ s~ʃ h~ç ɣ~j/, where the former occurs before /ɨ/ and the latter before /i/ and /ɛ/. Additionally there is a tone distinction on vowels, high vs. low.

Syllable structure is CV(s, h, ɾ). Additionally there are some cluster-resolution processes that occur when certain consonants come into contact. Firstly /i/ and /ɨ/ undergo metathesis with /h/ when they precede it, and are deleted when between a single permissible coda consonant and a following consonant when they have a low tone. Secondly whenever /h/ would occur after another consonant/cluster, it is deleted and a following low-toned vowel becomes high. Finally /ɨ/ and /i/ are deleted before another vowel, however /i/ causes /ɑ ɛ ɨ/ to front to /ɛ i i/ respectively. Finally if a consonantal prefix would result in a word-initial cluster an /ɨ/ is inserted to break it up. This can lead to interestin contrasts, e.g. /ɾ-kɑn/ > /rɨkɑn/ but /r-hɑn/ > /ɾɑ́n/ and /si-hɑn/ > /sɛ́n/.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » Tue 29 May 2018, 19:16

Here's a vowel system I quickly came up with, and I want to see how naturalistic it is.

/a e̞ ə i o̞/

I know /u/ is pretty widely attested, especially in a five vowel system, but I'm trying out the Nahuatl vowel system, just with /ə/ added.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 29 May 2018, 19:58

LinguoFranco wrote:
Tue 29 May 2018, 19:16
Here's a vowel system I quickly came up with, and I want to see how naturalistic it is.

/a e̞ ə i o̞/

I know /u/ is pretty widely attested, especially in a five vowel system, but I'm trying out the Nahuatl vowel system, just with /ə/ added.
Looks fine to me.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 01:49

Here's a new phoneme inventory I've compiled. The vowel system is based on Abkhaz, but I tried to do my own thing with the consonants. I like it for the most part, but it feels incomplete, like I'm missing something, or it may just need some more work. I don't know if I should treat palatals as official phonemes in the language, or occur as a part of sound change. The language makes heavy use of palatalization and labialization. I don't know if the affricates or /ɕ/ should also have palatalized versions, since you could argue they are technically already palatalized.

I was also going to have /k/ be a coda, and it still does occur as a word-final coda, but is altered when it precedes /t/, so a word like /mak.ta/ becomes /mat.ta/

/i~ə~u/
/e~a~o/
/m n ɲ/
/b t d c ɟ k g/
/s z ɕ ɦ/
/j w~ʋ ʍ r l ʟ/
/t͡ɕ d͡ʑ/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 06:40

/u:ⁿǂàma/, a distant relative of Eroki Gǂama, spoken on an island of the coast of the island where the latter is spoken.
/p pʰ ⁿp t tʰ ⁿt t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ ⁿt͡ɕ k kʰ ⁿk ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ɕ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/ʘ ʘʰ ⁿʘ ǀ ǀʰ ⁿǀ ǀˀ ǃ ǃʰ ⁿǃ ǃˀ ǂ ǂʰ ⁿǂ ǂˀ/

/i u ɛ ɔ a/
/i: y: u: ɯ: e: o: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ɔʊ ɛɪ əu əi/

/˧ ˩/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:34

LinguoFranco wrote:
Mon 04 Jun 2018, 01:49
I was also going to have /k/ be a coda, and it still does occur as a word-final coda, but is altered when it precedes /t/, so a word like /mak.ta/ becomes /mat.ta/
I really like this part [:)]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 02:30

Shemtov wrote:
Mon 04 Jun 2018, 06:40
/u:ⁿǂàma/, a distant relative of Eroki Gǂama, spoken on an island of the coast of the island where the latter is spoken.
/p pʰ ⁿp t tʰ ⁿt t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ ⁿt͡ɕ k kʰ ⁿk ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ɕ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/ʘ ʘʰ ⁿʘ ǀ ǀʰ ⁿǀ ǀˀ ǃ ǃʰ ⁿǃ ǃˀ ǂ ǂʰ ⁿǂ ǂˀ/

/i u ɛ ɔ a/
/i: y: u: ɯ: e: o: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ɔʊ ɛɪ əu əi/

/˧ ˩/
I am especially a fan of the prenasalized unvoiced stops. Is the prenasalization voiceless? If/when the prenasals occur intervocalically are they voiced? I just think the stops are lovely as hell.

I'm not great at reproducing clicks though I try. I'm absolute trash at reproducing aspirated v. non-aspirated distinction on clicks consistently but I do like the phonaesthetic of it. Your vowel system is a gem too. I am a sucker for a back unrounded vowel.
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