Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Creyeditor
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor » 29 Oct 2018 21:45

I finally managed to write up my ideas on an reversed autosegmental idea. This is an idea I had about using autosegmental phonology for place and manner of articulation instead of tone. So basically inverting suprasegmental features and segmental features.

Let's suppose we have a language that underlyingly only distinguishes length and tone. With two degrees of length for vowels and consonants plus five tones, we arrive at 2*2*5=20 possible CV syllables. If we also allow for V and CVC syllables, this yields ((2*5)+(2*2*5)+(2*2*2*5))^2=4900 possible two syllable words.
(1) Underlying Inventories
/C Cː/ <C CC>
/V Vː/ <V VV>
/˥ ˧ ˩ ˥˩ ˩˥/ or /V́ V̄ V̀ V̂ V̌/ <V́ V V̀ V̂ V̌>

Additionally suppose that the features for Place of Articulation and Manner of articulation are autosegmental, i.e. for each word there is a sequence or meldody of (maximally three) feature values for for these features for a word. These are associated from left to right. This yields the following vowel and consonant segments in (2) and (3). Notice that the vowel height feature and the manner of articulation for consonants are the same feature.

(2) Consonant Segment Inventory

Code: Select all

Labial Coronal Dorsal
p     t        k closed      <p t k>
f     s        x half closed <f s h>
w     l        ʁ open        <w l r>
(3) Vowel Segment Inventory

Code: Select all

Labial Coronal Dorsal
u     i        ɨ closed      <u i y>
o     e        ə half closed <o e a>
ɔ     ɛ        a open        <ọ ẹ ạ>
Let's look at an example. If we have a word with the underlying structure /CV́ːCːV̂/,a place melody labial-coronal-labial and a manner melody closed-open-half closed, we assign the values from left to right. This means that the first consonant will be labial and closed (i.e. <p>) and the first vowels will be open and coronal (i.e. <ẹ>) and so on. Note that the last vowels has the same features as the preceding consonant since there is the last part of the melodies spreads out. Let's assign the meaning 'dog' to this word.

(3) Example word
/CV́ːCːV̂/+Place:labial-coronal-labial+Manner:closed-open-half closed --> pɛ́ːfːô <pẹ́ẹ́ffô> 'dog'

How is this different from a normal segmental inventory and assimilation of vowels and consonants outside a certain domain. If morphology comes into play, we can get some interesting results. Let's first talk about material that could be underlying, e.g. a /V̌/ prefix. We have to distinguish two possibilities, early affixes and late affixes. Let's talk about early affixes first. If we affix the above mentioned prefix before assigning any of the manner and place features, we get a very differnt word. Let's say that this prefix expresses plurality. We thus get a seemingly suppletive plural for dogs in (4).

(4) Example word with early /V̌/-prefix
(/V̌/+/CV́ːCːV̂/)+Place:labial-coronal-labial+Manner:closed-open-half closed --> ǔlóːfːô <ǔlóóffô> 'dogs'

If the /V̌/ prefix attaches after manner and place assignment it will just receive the manner and place features of the first segment. In our case this means it will surface as ǔ <ǔ> thereby forming a minimal pair with (4). The form of the stem does not change here. Let's say this prefix indicates a first person possessor in (5).

(5) Example word with late /V̌/-prefix
/V̌/+(/CV́ːCːV̂/+Place:labial-coronal-labial+Manner:closed-open-half closed) --> ǔpɛ́ːfːô <ǔpẹ́ẹ́ffô> 'my dog'

Additionally, we could assume that melodic, i.e. non-underlying features, are affixed. Again we have to distinguish two cases. The affixes can either be overwriting or additive. Let's start with an additive suffix -dorsal. This suffix will change any segment into a dorsal that would otherwise be assigned its place feature by spreading from a previous segment. For our example word it means that the last ô <ô> is changed into ə <a>, as seen in (6). I assume that this is a locative exponent. While this looks like usual vowel mutation it will affect longer chunks. This is true as long as these get their place and manner values by spreading. It thus affects the last vowel and the last consonant in (7)

(6) Example word with -labial suffix
/CV́ːCːV̂/+Place:labial-coronal-labial+Manner:closed-open-half closed+Place:dorsal --> pɛ́ːfːô <pẹ́ẹ́ffâ> 'at a dog'

(7) Example word with with early /V̌/-prefix and -labial suffix
(/V̌/+/CV́ːCːV̂/)+Place:labial-coronal-labial+Manner:closed-open-half closed+Place:dorsal --> ǔlóːʁːâ <ǔlóórrâ> 'at dogs'

The other case for melodic affixes would be overwriting. Let's assume we have a melody for manner open-closed that expressed definitness. This will overwrite the lexical closed-open-half closed melody of the word dog. The word for 'the dogs' again looks suppletive, even though it is just a regular case of overwriting affixation.

(3) Example word
/CV́ːCːV̂/+Place:labial-coronal-labial+Manner:closed-open-half closed+Manner:open-closed --> wíːpːû <wííppû> 'the dog'

I hope this is possible to understand my ideas at least to some extent. If not, you can ask questions, of course. I am happy to answer them.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 30 Oct 2018 06:12

Since no one else has replied, I'll say it: It's horrifying, and brilliant. Horrifying in an impressive way. It's very creative, and though I can't imagine a way for such a system to arise naturally, it doesn't seem beyond the pale that such a structure could be acquired mostly intact by a child learner.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by cedh » 30 Oct 2018 09:10

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
30 Oct 2018 06:12
It's horrifying, and brilliant. Horrifying in an impressive way.
[+1]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch » 30 Oct 2018 16:46

Just an incomplete idea:

/t͡ʪ d͡ʫ/ [t͡ʪ~t͡ɬ d͡ʫ~d͡ɮ]
/t͡ʪʲ d͡ʫʲ/ [t̠͡ʪ̠ʲ~t͡ɕ d̠͡ʫ̠ʲ~d͡ʑ]
/t͡ʪʶ d͡ʫʶ/ [t̪͡ʪ̪ʶ~t̪͡s̪ʶ d̪͡ʫ̪ʶ~d̪͡z̪ʶ]
/ʪ ʫ/ [ʪ~ɬ ʫ~ɮ]
/ʪʲ ʫʲ/ [ʪ̠ʲ~ɕ ʫ̠ʲ~ʑ]
/ʪʶ ʫʶ/ [ʪ̪ʶ~s̪ʶ ʫ̪ʶ~z̪ʶ]

/a e i u/ are [ɐ ə ɨ u] after /t͡ʪ d͡ʫ ʪ ʫ/
/a e i u/ are [æ e i ʉ] after /t͡ʪʲ d͡ʫʲ ʪʲ ʫʲ/
/a e i u/ are [ɑ ɤ ɘ o] after /t͡ʪʶ d͡ʫʶ ʪʶ ʫʶ/

Basically,
1) the plain lateral sibilants (and affricates) are in free variation with lateral non-sibilant fricatives (and affricates)
2) lateral sibilants (and affricates) with secondary articulations are in free variation with non-lateral sibilants (and affricates)

Not sure how to extend the same weirdness to a full consonant inventory, except maybe something like:
/t/ [t]
/tʲ/ [t̠ʲ~c]
/tʶ/ [t̪ʶ~q]
/ɹ/ [ɹ~ɾ]
/ɹʲ/ [ɹ̠ʲ~j]
/ɹʶ/ [ðʶ~ʁ]
...but that's starting to get a little too weird and restrictive for my taste. Maybe just having weird lateral sibilants would be good and weird enough, and the stops and fricatives and whatnot could all be something more normal. A more "realistic" alternative would be to have the following, even though it'd still be kinda strangely symmetrical:
/p t c q ʔ/
/v ð j ʁ ɦ/
/r/
It could then be said that the proto-language had /b d ɟ ɢ ʔ̬/ and /f θ ç χ h/ for perfect symmetry, but they merged with /p t c q ʔ/ or /v ð j ʁ ɦ/ in some way... maybe even asymmetrically, eg. /b/ becoming /v/ while /ʔ̬/ became /ʔ/ or something; that'd make it a little bit more realistic, I guess, but having /ɢ/ and /ʔ̬/ in the first place would be pretty unrealistic. [:P]

Not having /k/ would also end up bugging me if I actually started working on a language with this phonology, except maybe if /c/ was orthographically represented by <k> and it could actually be phonetically [kʲ~k̟] or whatever. The lack of [s​] even allophonically would be pretty weird and unrealistic, too; maybe it could be an intervocalic allophone of /ʪ/ or something. I'd kinda like to include /tʲ/ [t̠ʲ~c] and /tʶ/ [t̪ʶ~q] in addition to /p t c q ʔ/; if they'd merge with [c q] in clusters with palatal(ised) and uvular(ised) consonants respectively, that could be an interesting feature. Hmm... I think I'll quickly throw together a language with this inventory and see what happens, maybe it'll end up totally different from what I'm posting now.

EDIT: And here it is. Yeah, it turned out pretty weird. I'll probably continue working on it because it's pretty fun and straightforward, unlike the first conlang I posted about in that thread... I mean, I might continue that as well, but...

cedh wrote:
30 Oct 2018 09:10
Porphyrogenitos wrote:
30 Oct 2018 06:12
It's horrifying, and brilliant. Horrifying in an impressive way.
[+1]
[+1]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 01 Nov 2018 21:51

/m ŋ ɴ/
/p k q ʔ/
/β̞ ɣ̞ ʁ̞ h/

/i a u/ [e o]

(C)V[ʔ/h]

Initial stress.

Uvulars trigger rightward backness/height harmony, turning /ŋ k ɣ̞/ into /ɴ q ʁ̞/ and lowering /i u/ to [e o] until blocked by a labial.

/pahiqu/ + /ŋiʔ/ + /ɣ̞i/ > [pahiqoɴeʔʁ̞e]

Alternative version:

[m ŋ ɴ]
/p k q ʔ/
/β̞ ɣ̞ ʁ̞ h/

/i a u/ [e o]
[ĩ ã ũ ẽ õ]

(C)V[ʔ/h]

Initial stress.

Uvulars trigger rightward backness/height harmony, turning /ŋ k ɣ̞/ into /ɴ q ʁ̞/ and lowering /i u/ to [e o] until blocked by a labial.

/h/ triggers rightward nasal harmony, turning /p k q/ into [m ŋ ɴ] and /i a u/ [e o] into [ĩ ã ũ ẽ õ] until blocked by a glottal stop.

/pahiqu/ + /kiʔ/ + /ɣ̞i/ > [pahĩɴõɴẽʔʁ̞e]

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » 02 Nov 2018 05:54

Okay, I'm trying to design a personal language, and while my current inventory is far from what I consider ideal, sound-wise, I think I have created something I can work with, but I need some input. Here's what I have so far:

/m n/
/b t d k g/
/s z x ɬ ɮ h/
/j w~ʋ/
/r l ʟ ʎ/
/t͡ʃ t͡s/

/i iː/
/e̞ e̞ː o̞ o̞ː/
/a aː/

Coda Consonants: /n l r/

The basic syllable structure is (C)V(C), though I might include the possibility of palatalization and/or labialization. I'm trying to go with something that sounds nice and flows well, but isn't too soft or too harsh sounding. I've placed an emphasis on sonorants.

I know some of my choices are a bit weird. I know I like /ɬ/, but I don't know if I like /ʃ/ or /ɕ/ other than when they occur word-initially. I'm also not sure if I want /f v/ as fricatives. I want /t͡ʃ/ but I have no /ʃ/, but Spanish is the only natlang that I know of where this is the case.

As for prosody, it is somewhat similar to Japanese, with mora-counting and syllable weight, but my conlang has a stress system instead of a pitch accent. A heavy syllable is any syllable that ends in a coda or a long vowel.

What are your thoughts? What do I need to tweak?

Some of my favorite languages include Japanese, Nahuatl, and Swahili, if you want to know in case you want to help me figure what I like and dislike.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar » 02 Nov 2018 12:38

If this is for a personal language, just do what feels/sounds best to you.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 03 Nov 2018 10:21

Wouldn’t this be fun?

/n ɲ/
/t t͡ʃ k/
/θ ʃ x/
/ɾ j/

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 03 Nov 2018 16:34

Updated finalized Dot Islandic
/m n ɲ/ m n ñ
/p b t d ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ k g ʔ/ p b t d ś/ts ź/dz ť/tx ď/dc k g
/f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ h/ f v þ/th ð/dh s z x c h
/j w/ y w
/l/ l

/i u ɪ ʊ e o ɛ ʌ æ a/ i u î û e o ê ô â a
It’s simple, and I plan on using it for making a children’s album.
/p pʰ b t tʰ d c cʰ ɟ k kʰ g ʔ/ <p pʰ b t tʰ d ḱ ḱʰ ǵ k kʰ g ʔ>
/f v s z ɕ ʑ ç ʝ x ɣ χ ʕ h/ <f v s z ś ź x́ ʒ́ x ʒ ḥ ʕ h>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/l j ɰ w/ <l j c w>
/r/ <r>

/i ɨ ʉ y u e ø ɘ o ə ɞ ʌ æ ɐ a ɒ/ <i ɨ ʉ y u e œ ë o ə ɔ ɛ æ ä a å>
/iː ɨː ʉː yː uː eː øː ɘː oː əː ɞː ʌː æː ɐː aː ɒː/ <ii ɨɨ ʉʉ yy uu ee œœ ëë oo əə ɔɔ ɛɛ ææ ää aa åå>

/ŋrece tʰau/ <Ŋreḱe Tʰau>

/su jy.tʰŋaːl seː.ɣʌŋ sre.wei lə.cjaː kŋaː.scʰei ʉː.jʉːɕ ʕnaohk gʕɒɰ.ŋheɕ kʰɒː || kʰŋəm cʰruːɨ løːɕ wxaːbd.ʑniːtɣ jroːz.rɟaːl ɰɘːç | χoːɰ nχalc jəː xɞːvw sŋəi ljaowv ɰɣɒːhtʰ scʰoːuw || nχalc ɟeː ||/

<Su jytʰŋaal seeʒɛŋ srewei ləḱjaa kŋaasḱʰei ʉʉjʉʉś ʕnaohk gʕåcŋheś kʰåå. Kʰŋəm ḱʰruuɨ lœœś wxaabdźniitʒ jroozrǵaal cëëx́, ḥooc nḥalḱ jəə xɔɔvw sŋəi ljaowv cʒååhtʰ sḱʰoouw. Nḥalḱ ǵee.>
Unfortunately the same vowel can occur can occur twice in a row, so a macron could be used.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » 04 Nov 2018 00:41

Here's another inventory I created.

/m n/
/p b t d k g/
/s f ɬ x/
/j ʋ/
/l/

/i iː u uː/
/e̞ e̞ː o̞ o̞ː/
/a aː/

The possible syllable types are V, CV, CVC, and CV[ː]. The coda can only be /l/ or /n/. I have yet to decide on the prosody of the language, but I'm leaning towards mora-timed with stress being based on syllable weight. There is also lenition for stops, whenever a stop is between vowels or a liquid and a vowel. So in the word /mido/, for example, the /d/ would become /ð/, therefore making the word actually pronounced as /miðo/.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 05 Nov 2018 12:49

/t̪ t͡ʃ k k͡p ʔ/
/b~m d̪~n̪ ɖ~ɭ ɟ~ɲ g~ŋ g͡b~ŋ͡m/
/ɸ s x/
/j w/

/i u/
/e o/
/a ɔ/

Nasality is contrastive.

There are some distributional restrictions on certain consonants: /k k͡p/ do not occur before /a ɔ/, velars do not occur before /i e/, /j/ does not occur before /i/, /w/ does not occur before /u/ and /s/ only occurs before /i u/. The retroflex consonant is realised as a stop word-initially or when glottalised, and as a lateral elsewhere. Other voiced stops are nasalised before nasal vowels.

Syllable structure is (ʔ)(C)V, where the glottal stop is restricted to preceding voiced segments (vowels, glides and voiced stops). Glottal stops plus a phonetic voiced stop is frequently realised as an implosive. Vowels may occur either short or long.

There is a word-tone system with several pitch patterns: high-initial, low-initial and high post-initial, with other syllables taking a functionally unmarked mid tone.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by chris_notts » 07 Nov 2018 23:33

Frislander wrote:
05 Nov 2018 12:49
Other voiced stops are nasalised before nasal vowels.
I do like languages where nasality is a suprasegmental feature of the syllable, and nasal harmony and spreading between syllables is even cooler. I did a conlang with that, once.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by chris_notts » 07 Nov 2018 23:42

The inventory of Sint is:

t k
m n
ts tɬ č
v s ɬ š x
w r j

i e a o (ɨ)
ai ao oi

ɨ is primarily an epenthetic vowel and is never stressed.
Stressed syllables are either short, glottalised (short, falling tone), or long rising tone.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by jimydog000 » 13 Nov 2018 03:15

/m t k~ʔ/
/s ɾ ɰ~j/

/i a u/
/iː aː uː/

C(m, ɰ)V(ɾ(C))

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 13 Nov 2018 21:03

Pheasanti
/m n ŋ ɲ/ m n ng ny
/p b t d c~ʦ ɟ~ʣ k g ʔ/ p b t d ky/ch gy/dj k g ʼ
/f v s z ɕ ʑ x ɣ h/ f v s z sy/x zy/j kh gh h
/ʧ~ʨ ʤ~ʥ/ ty/c dy/q
/l ɫ j w/ l ĺ y w
/ɾ r/ r ŕ

/i y u e ø o ə ʌ æ a/ i ü u e ö o ə ʌ ë a
Length and checked vowels occur <a á à â ö ő ȍ õ>
When consonants occur next to each other that are phonemes, a line under or over (for g) is added.
/tj kj dj gj kʰ gʱ/ ṯy/tʼy ḵy/kʼy ḏy/dʼy ḡy/gʼy ḵh/kʼh ḡh/gʼh
Last edited by Birdlang on 14 Nov 2018 00:15, edited 1 time in total.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 13 Nov 2018 22:45

/m n ŋ/ m n g
/p t k ʔ/ p t k h

/a e i o u/ a e i o u

(C)V(ʔ/N)

/ʔ/ may not appear syllable-initially
Stress is lexical

/m n ŋ/ neutralize in coda
/ʔ/ completely assimilates to following consonant
p t k > b d g / N_
p t k > f s x / V́_V

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 20 Nov 2018 13:55

/m mʱ n nʱ ɳ ɳʱ ɲ ɲʱ ŋ ŋʱ/ m mh n nh ṇ ṇh ñ ñh ṅ ṅh
/p pʰ b bʱ t tʰ d dʱ ʈ ʈʰ ɖ ɖʱ c cʰ ɟ ɟʱ k kʰ ɡ ɡʱ q ɢ/ p ph b bh t th ṭ ṭh ḍ ḍh c ch j jh k kh g gh q ĝ
/f v s sʰ z ʂ ʐ ɕ~ʃ ʑ~ʒ x ɣ ħ ɦ/ f v s sh z ṣ ẓ ś ź x ġ ĥ h
/ʋ j/ w y
/l ɭ ɭʱ ʎ/ l ḷ ḷh ĺ
/ɾ ɽ ɽʱ/ r ṛ ṛh

/i iː e eː ɛ ɛː/ i ī e ē æ ǣ
/ə aː/ a ā
/ɯ ɯː u uː ɤ ɤː o oː ɔ ɔː/ ü ǖ u ū ö ȫ o ō å å̄
/ɹ̩ ɹ̩ː l̩ l̩ː/ r̥ r̥̄ l̥ l̥̄
/Ṽ Vh/ Vṃ Vḥ

This is my idea for an Indo-Aryan language. It could be written in any modified Brahmi-derived script.

This is finalized Upsaclottian
Spoken by a humanoid race called of course, the Upsaclottians.
/p t c k/ p t ť k
/b d ɟ g/ b d ď g
/pʼ tʼ cʼ kʼ/ ṗ ṫ ċ ḳ
/ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ/ ḅ ḍ ẓ ġ
/ɸ θ s ʃ ç x h/ f ţ s š ś ḫ h
/β ð z ʒ ʝ ɣ ɦ/ v ḑ z ž ź ǥ ḩ
/pɸ ʦ ʧ cç/ ᵽ c č ǩ
/bβ ʣ ʤ ɟʝ/ ƀ ʒ ǯ ǧ
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ň ŋ
/β̞ ð̞ j ɥ ɰ w ʁ̞/ ḃ ḋ j ÿ ẅ w ƣ
/l ʎ/ l ľ
/r/ r

/i y e ø ɛ œ æ/ i ü é ö è ô æ
/ɨ ʉ ə a/ î û e a
/ɯ u ɤ o ʌ ɔ ɒ/ ï u ë ó o ò å
Vowels can be long or short. Long vowels are marked with a macron.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

Porphyrogenitos
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 01 Dec 2018 06:53

Rotokas-esque

Code: Select all

pa  pi  pu    pã  pĩ  pũ    ba  bi  bu    mã  mĩ  mũ
ta  si  tu    tã  sĩ  tũ    da  di  du    nã  nĩ  nũ
ka  ki  ku    kã  kĩ  kũ    ga  gi  gu    ŋã  ŋĩ  ŋũ
paː piː puː   pãː pĩː pũː   baː biː buː   mãː mĩː mũː
taː siː tuː   tãː sĩː tũː   daː diː duː   nãː nĩː nũː
kaː kiː kuː   kãː kĩː kũː   gaː giː guː   ŋãː ŋĩː ŋũː
a   i   u     ã   ĩ   ũ
aː  iː  uː    ãː  ĩː  ũː 
As one may note, underlying /ti/ is [si]

The voiced non-nasal plosives are realized as [β ɾ ɣ] in non-initial position (this is always the same as intervocalic position)

Vowel harmony exists; a word may contain /i a/ or /u a/; harmony is almost always progressive (grammar is mainly suffixing)

Hiatus is forbidden; it is avoided (whether in morphophonemics, sandhi, or loaning) by either deletion or total assimilation

i.e.

/p t~s k/
/b~β~m d~ɾ~n g~ɣ~ŋ/

/a i u/ with contrastive length/nasalization
(C)V syllables

wintiver
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012 02:37

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » 03 Dec 2018 00:08

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
01 Dec 2018 06:53
Rotokas-esque

Code: Select all

pa  pi  pu    pã  pĩ  pũ    ba  bi  bu    mã  mĩ  mũ
ta  si  tu    tã  sĩ  tũ    da  di  du    nã  nĩ  nũ
ka  ki  ku    kã  kĩ  kũ    ga  gi  gu    ŋã  ŋĩ  ŋũ
paː piː puː   pãː pĩː pũː   baː biː buː   mãː mĩː mũː
taː siː tuː   tãː sĩː tũː   daː diː duː   nãː nĩː nũː
kaː kiː kuː   kãː kĩː kũː   gaː giː guː   ŋãː ŋĩː ŋũː
a   i   u     ã   ĩ   ũ
aː  iː  uː    ãː  ĩː  ũː 
As one may note, underlying /ti/ is [si]

The voiced non-nasal plosives are realized as [β ɾ ɣ] in non-initial position (this is always the same as intervocalic position)

Vowel harmony exists; a word may contain /i a/ or /u a/; harmony is almost always progressive (grammar is mainly suffixing)

Hiatus is forbidden; it is avoided (whether in morphophonemics, sandhi, or loaning) by either deletion or total assimilation

i.e.

/p t~s k/
/b~β~m d~ɾ~n g~ɣ~ŋ/

/a i u/ with contrastive length/nasalization
(C)V syllables
Are there enough syllables to allow for complex language? It seems like the ragged lower edge of minimalism. (I also don't mean this as a harsh critique, I am sincerely curious if this paucity of phonemes could work especially with vowel harmony which further restricts combinations).

Maybe if you threw in like a 3-tone system? Hell, even a two-tone system would be helpful in delineating the sounds.

I have been tweaking and retweaking a system which uses apical/laminal distinction in the coronal series and has a alveo-palatal POA which is distinct from a true palatal POA. Though not my initial intention, it is very roughly like Basque and Mandarin in terms of it's consonantal inventory. I just keep wondering if it's naturalistic enough. It's bugging me.

m n̻ ɲ ŋ
p t̻ c k
b d̻ ɟ g
f s̻ s̺ ɬ̺ ɕ ç x h
v z̻ z̺ ʑ ɣ
r̥ ʍ
r l̺ j w

I am also heavily debating on having at least a voiceless series of affricates /t̪s̻ t̺s̺ tɕ/. My main concern with this (besides a nightmare orthography problem) is that /tɕ/ and /c/ are quite similar, I feel like this distinction would be unstable at best. But in terms of complete series it would be nice to have all the coronals and the alveo-palatal affricates. Any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated.

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Shemtov
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov » 03 Dec 2018 02:01

Latverian, a Marvel Fanlang, that's a Hungarian influenced dialect of Romani:
/p pʰ b t tʰ d t͡s t͡ʃ c ɟ k kʰ g/ <p ph b t th d c cs ty gy k kh
/m n/ <m n>
/f v s z ʃ ʒ h/ <f v sz z s zs h>
/l r j/ <l r j>

/i u e o ə a/ <i u é o e a>
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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