(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 07:19

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 20 Jul 2017, 23:26

Lambuzhao wrote:B) Fastforward the <COMPAR> /ior/ and use the DEF with the COMPAR to make the SUPER.
Cf. Old :fra: haut altus halçor altior l'halçor altissimus

This exists exactly so in most Romlangs. You'd just have to make sure every ADJ has a COMPAR in /ior/.
Depending on which ADJs you keep from :lat:, recall that, even in Classical Golden Age Old High :lat:, there
were two or three handfuls of ADJs that already were using co-comparatives magis <COMPAR> and maxime <SUPER>. Cf. idoneus, aureus, and other ADJs of 1st and 2nd declensions that end in /eus/ or /ius/
Using the comparative to double-duty for the superlative, that sounds closer to a Vulgar solution.
I didn't think any romance language still kept the comparative forms minus a few exceptions like melior. Italian sort of complicates things as it still kept the superlative endings but just repurposed them. Do you think it'd be realistic for the comparative to double as the superlative in most cases but for a few common adjectives to have their own unique superlative forms?


Tangent: Oh how I wish modern French kept halçor. That has to be one of the prettiest looking words I've ever seen
User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2636
Joined: Sat 10 Nov 2012, 20:52
Location: California

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dormouse559 » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 00:11

All4Ɇn wrote:I didn't think any romance language still kept the comparative forms minus a few exceptions like melior.
No Romance language I know of developed a synthetic comparative form either, so one way or another we're dealing with things that didn't happen.
All4Ɇn wrote:Italian sort of complicates things as it still kept the superlative endings but just repurposed them.
It did? [O.O] I know it borrowed Latin superlative endings, as did a lot of Romance languages, but I didn't know of any inherited ones.
All4Ɇn wrote:Do you think it'd be realistic for the comparative to double as the superlative in most cases but for a few common adjectives to have their own unique superlative forms?
Sure, it's not unusual for a certain set of core adjectives to behave differently from others.

To add another option to Lambuzhao's prefix idea, you could start from trans (cf. Fr. très). Or really from any adjective, adverb or preposition that could come to mean "very" (plene, fors, tantus, sic …).

I bet a comparative could also come from an augmentative, like a reflex of Latin -o or -aceus.
User avatar
LinguistCat
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat 06 May 2017, 06:48

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LinguistCat » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 00:24

What are some things /ts/ could become besides /t/ /s/ or /tʃ/?
User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 07:19

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 00:27

Dormouse559 wrote:
All4Ɇn wrote:Italian sort of complicates things as it still kept the superlative endings but just repurposed them.
It did? [O.O] I know it borrowed Latin superlative endings, as did a lot of Romance languages, but I didn't know of any inherited ones.
I think we might be talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the absolute superlative. I think Spanish has it too but uses it less often and borrowed it from Italian if I recall correctly

All4Ɇn wrote:To add another option to Lambuzhao's prefix idea, you could start from trans (cf. Fr. très). Or really from any adjective, adverb or preposition that could come to mean "very" (plene, fors, tantus, sic …).

I bet a comparative could also come from an augmentative, like a reflex of Latin -o or -aceus.
Thanks [:)]
User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 07:19

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 00:29

doomie wrote:What are some things /ts/ could become besides /t/ /s/ or /tʃ/?
/t͡θ/ /θ/ /d͡z/ /ɕ/ /t͡ɬ/ are some options
User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2636
Joined: Sat 10 Nov 2012, 20:52
Location: California

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dormouse559 » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 00:47

All4Ɇn wrote:I think we might be talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the absolute superlative. I think Spanish has it too but uses it less often and borrowed it from Italian if I recall correctly
-issimo, right? That's a borrowing, otherwise, I'd expect *-essimo or something.

For the record, French, Portuguese and others also got their hands on that suffix.
User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 07:19

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 01:03

Dormouse559 wrote:That's a borrowing, otherwise, I'd expect *-essimo or something.[/size]
Well not necessarily. Italian often changed /e/ to /i/. That's how we ended up with words like ristorante. My guess is an early borrowing.
Dormouse559 wrote:For the record, French, Portuguese and others also got their hands on that suffix.
I've seen articles on wiktionary before about it being used in French but I've yet to come across it save for a few irregular ones like optimum or maximum.
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7616
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 01:06

All4Ɇn wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:B) Fastforward the <COMPAR> /ior/ and use the DEF with the COMPAR to make the SUPER.
Cf. Old :fra: haut altus halçor altior l'halçor altissimus

This exists exactly so in most Romlangs. You'd just have to make sure every ADJ has a COMPAR in /ior/.
Depending on which ADJs you keep from :lat:, recall that, even in Classical Golden Age Old High :lat:, there
were two or three handfuls of ADJs that already were using co-comparatives magis <COMPAR> and maxime <SUPER>. Cf. idoneus, aureus, and other ADJs of 1st and 2nd declensions that end in /eus/ or /ius/
Using the comparative to double-duty for the superlative, that sounds closer to a Vulgar solution.
I didn't think any romance language still kept the comparative forms minus a few exceptions like melior. Italian sort of complicates things as it still kept the superlative endings but just repurposed them. Do you think it'd be realistic for the comparative to double as the superlative in most cases but for a few common adjectives to have their own unique superlative forms?


Tangent: Oh how I wish modern French kept halçor. That has to be one of the prettiest looking words I've ever seen
There are alternate graphies (Provençal) : aussor, ausor, alzor

http://trobadors.iec.cat/veure_notes.asp?id_obra=180

Makes me think of :esp: halcón.
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7616
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 01:08

Dormouse559 wrote: To add another option to Lambuzhao's prefix idea, you could start from trans (cf. Fr. très). Or really from any adjective, adverb or preposition that could come to mean "very" (plene, fors, tantus, sic …).
I think in his original post he was looking for 1-word COMPAR and SUPER forms, rather than a phrasal construction, unless I misread.
I bet a comparative could also come from an augmentative, like a reflex of Latin -o or -aceus.
[+1]
Good point! Why not?!
:wat:
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7616
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 01:16

Dormouse559 wrote:
All4Ɇn wrote:I think we might be talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the absolute superlative. I think Spanish has it too but uses it less often and borrowed it from Italian if I recall correctly
-issimo, right? That's a borrowing, otherwise, I'd expect *-essimo or something.

For the record, French, Portuguese and others also got their hands on that suffix.

The closest thing to a non-borrowed regular SUPER termination which survived into Romance might be the oridinal number :lat: *decumus/decimus.

In :esp: , it exists as diezmo 'tithe', 'tenth-part', versus cultism/borrowing décimo 'tenth'.
In :fra: there is also dîme > Old :fra: dixme which also means 'tithe', and is the source for the :eng: word 'dime', versus the reformed dixième or the cultism décime. In Provençal, it's desme.

I am not sure how much consensus there is that such an Italic superlative termination was actually one-in-the-same as the similarly-quacking ordinal termination, but , well, there it is. It's up to you how much steam-punking you'd want to invest.
[;)]
Last edited by Lambuzhao on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 01:27, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
MrKrov
banned
Posts: 2414
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2010, 01:47
Location: /ai/ > /a:/
Contact:

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by MrKrov » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 01:18

Lambuzhao wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote: To add another option to Lambuzhao's prefix idea, you could start from trans (cf. Fr. très). Or really from any adjective, adverb or preposition that could come to mean "very" (plene, fors, tantus, sic …).
I think in his original post he was looking for 1-word COMPAR and SUPER forms, rather than a phrasal construction, unless I misread.
The idea is where that inflection could come from. Today's phrasal constructions to tomorrow's affixing or such.
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7616
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 01:22

MrKrov wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote: To add another option to Lambuzhao's prefix idea, you could start from trans (cf. Fr. très). Or really from any adjective, adverb or preposition that could come to mean "very" (plene, fors, tantus, sic …).
I think in his original post he was looking for 1-word COMPAR and SUPER forms, rather than a phrasal construction, unless I misread.
The idea is where that inflection could come from. Today's phrasal constructions to tomorrow's affixing or such.
Uff. That's certainly true.

:esp:

lomabuenodetó = lo más bueno de todos
DEF.N.SG ADV<COMPAR> good PRP all.M.PL
The best/nicest of all
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7616
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 02:07

I dunno.
:idea:
I'm having a little fun extrapolating from halçor and diezmo, but in a more Iberian direction:

:con: :esp:
alto alzor alcismo
caente caenzor caencismo
fácil façor/*fajor (older *facejor) facielmo
bueno mejor otiemo
malo peyor piesmo
maño mayor maesmo (older *mayezmo)
fuerte fuerzor fuercismo
alegre alegror alegrismo

Clearly *issimus cannot produce /iezmo/
La respuesta se encuentra en la mismísima palabra.
The answer's in the selfsame word.
[;)]
Last edited by Lambuzhao on Sat 22 Jul 2017, 07:51, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2636
Joined: Sat 10 Nov 2012, 20:52
Location: California

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dormouse559 » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 02:14

All4Ɇn wrote:Well not necessarily. Italian often changed /e/ to /i/. That's how we ended up with words like ristorante. My guess is an early borrowing.
The e > i change was limited to unstressed syllables I think. I'm not qualified to comment on the timing of the borrowing. [:P]
All4Ɇn wrote:I've seen articles on wiktionary before about it being used in French but I've yet to come across it save for a few irregular ones like optimum or maximum.
-issime is largely formal and can be humorous. I came across it just a couple days ago in a Le Figaro article:
Le Figaro wrote:La célébrissime nanny immortalisée par Julie Andrews revient sur les écrans en 2018 …

The world-famous nanny immortalized by Julie Andrews returns to screens in 2018 …
Lambuzhao wrote:I think in his original post he was looking for 1-word COMPAR and SUPER forms, rather than a phrasal construction, unless I misread.
That was my understanding, too. My thought was that the word could become a prefix over time. Looks like MrKrov ninja'd me. [xD]
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7616
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Fri 21 Jul 2017, 03:07

Lambuzhao wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:
All4Ɇn wrote:I think we might be talking about the same thing. I'm referring to the absolute superlative. I think Spanish has it too but uses it less often and borrowed it from Italian if I recall correctly
-issimo, right? That's a borrowing, otherwise, I'd expect *-essimo or something.

For the record, French, Portuguese and others also got their hands on that suffix.

The closest thing to a non-borrowed regular SUPER termination which survived into Romance might be the oridinal number :lat: *decumus/decimus.

In :esp: , it exists as diezmo 'tithe', 'tenth-part', versus cultism/borrowing décimo 'tenth'.
In :fra: there is also dîme > Old :fra: dixme which also means 'tithe', and is the source for the :eng: word 'dime', versus the reformed dixième or the cultism décime. In Provençal, it's desme.

I am not sure how much consensus there is that such an Italic superlative termination was actually one-in-the-same as the similarly-quacking ordinal termination, but , well, there it is. It's up to you how much steam-punking you'd want to invest.
[;)]
Boy, was I not thinking.

Vulg. :lat: *metipsissimus
:esp: mismo
:ita: medesimo
:fra: même

Wow. Hiding in plain sight.
Solarius
roman
roman
Posts: 1193
Joined: Mon 30 Aug 2010, 00:23

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Solarius » Sat 22 Jul 2017, 02:37

I'm working on a relatively analytic company whose only verbal markers are the passive and antipassive. The suffixes are -i and -u/o depending on environment. The question is: which suffix should go with which?
Check out Ussaria!
User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4400
Joined: Thu 20 Nov 2014, 02:27

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by qwed117 » Sat 22 Jul 2017, 03:53

All4Ɇn wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:That's a borrowing, otherwise, I'd expect *-essimo or something.[/size]
Well not necessarily. Italian often changed /e/ to /i/. That's how we ended up with words like ristorante. My guess is an early borrowing.
Don't know why, but for some reason, I was under the mistaken impression that essimo came from *-ipsimus.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2636
Joined: Sat 10 Nov 2012, 20:52
Location: California

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dormouse559 » Sat 22 Jul 2017, 04:53

Well,*-essimo isn't a suffix in Italian. It's just a hypothetical reflex I came up with.
User avatar
Parlox
greek
greek
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri 10 Feb 2017, 20:28
Location: Ehh

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Parlox » Sat 22 Jul 2017, 06:53

Does anyone know of a good font maker? I have tried FontArk, FontStruct and Glyphr, though none of them seem to work well.
  • :con: Cajun, a descendant of French spoken in Louisiana.
  • :con: Bàsupan, loosely inspired by Amharic.
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire, a fusion of Welsh and Arabic.
User avatar
lsd
roman
roman
Posts: 895
Joined: Fri 11 Mar 2011, 21:11
Contact:

Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by lsd » Sat 22 Jul 2017, 07:16

Fontforge seems to be cool...
For myself long ago I used some online tool (fontstruct I think) and a light soft (type light)...
But with logography, a keyboard is not enough except with virtual large keyboard...
Now I use pics with macros in my prosessor to simulate an IME...
Last edited by lsd on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply