Gender

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Sodomor
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Gender

Post by Sodomor » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 04:07

How many of you guys out there have genders in your conlangs?
I'm debating whether to put them in or not.
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Re: Gender

Post by MrKrov » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 04:18

Nope.
What is the appeal to you?
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Pirka
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Re: Gender

Post by Pirka » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 04:49

Usually I don't. It's simpler that way for me, and deciding which gender a new word should be always seems to leave me with an gender-imbalanced wordlist which bothers me for some irrational reason.

Genders are commonly cited as a means of disambiguating, so that could be a pro.
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Re: Gender

Post by Yačay256 » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 05:10

Pinhgyxgo has 7 genders as a Niger-Congo influence.
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Re: Gender

Post by zelos » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 07:00

I got 4 and genders make it easier knowing whats talked about often
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Re: Gender

Post by Systemzwang » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 07:17

Pirka wrote:Usually I don't. It's simpler that way for me, and deciding which gender a new word should be always seems to leave me with an gender-imbalanced wordlist which bothers me for some irrational reason.

Genders are commonly cited as a means of disambiguating, so that could be a pro.
they also introduce some extra redundancy, which is a good thing.
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Re: Gender

Post by Pirka » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 07:58

Systemzwang wrote:they also introduce some extra redundancy, which is a good thing.
Yes; I was looking for a way to express what they do, although I wouldn't express it as "redundancy" because sometimes the affirmation could clear up the meaning of the sentence or whatever is being said at the moment.
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Re: Gender

Post by Micamo » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 09:35

I don't like gender, but I do include it in many of my non-Mary Sue langs. When I DO include gender, it's perfectly regular and predictable from the meaning of the noun, without much room for interpretation. Anything that's not totally-obvious (like including mushrooms in the zoic rather than plant+fungus gender) I ensure to give a neat little cultural story behind it.
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Re: Gender

Post by Ainuke » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 13:08

I hate Gender. I'm learning German, and even though I'm one of the best in my class, I don't know the Genders of any words, excepting the obvious.
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Sodomor
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Re: Gender

Post by Sodomor » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 13:12

Pirka wrote:Genders are commonly cited as a means of disambiguating, so that could be a pro.
Sorry to sound dumb, but what's "disambiguating.

--

On a different note, how do you guys differentiate your genders/noun classes?
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Re: Gender

Post by Tanni » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 13:26

Ainuke wrote:I hate Gender. I'm learning German, and even though I'm one of the best in my class, I don't know the Genders of any words, excepting the obvious.
Learn the articles together with the words.
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Re: Gender

Post by Ossicone » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 17:07

@Tanni: Thanks for the obvious and unhelpful advice

I have one lang with genders, Amjati, and one lang without genders, Inyauk.

In Amajti the genders are fairly arbitrary and you just have to remember what they are. The gender is marked on the article (it is partially inspired by a Germanic lang).

Ex:
ak jen - a boy
jenak - the boy
az jen - a girl
jenaz - the girl.
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Re: Gender

Post by Yačay256 » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 19:36

Sodomor wrote:On a different note, how do you guys differentiate your genders/noun classes?
The 7 genders (or noun classes) of Pinhgyxgo are marked with an infix and are for:
1=Humans, worlds, spirits and some body parts
2=Water, flowers, "cohesive/sold" things, rocks and symmetrical things
3=Plants, flora, layers, fibers
4=Social stratification, kinship, nations, peoples, ethnicities and eusocial insects
5=Fire, soil, air, birds, "active" systems
6=Tools, vehicles, vessels
7=Animals and some body parts
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Re: Gender

Post by Omzinesý » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 19:49

Tanni wrote:
Ainuke wrote:I hate Gender. I'm learning German, and even though I'm one of the best in my class, I don't know the Genders of any words, excepting the obvious.
Learn the articles together with the words.
It's not as easy as it could seem. Studying articles must be learned, as well. It's easier to use a form where masculine and neuter are similar, and guess it's obviously that gender. :-P

In conlangs gender is a nice principle, though I don't prefer it either.
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Re: Gender

Post by Micamo » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 19:56

Acoi has 7 genders of an extended animacy system, though its only manifestation is agreement with a number prefix, marked on the head.

Male Humans
Animals
Female Humans
Force (Natural things that move, like falling rocks and the wind)
Plants and Fungi
Inanimate (stuff like rocks, sitting around doing nothing)
Abstractions

The higher classes are considered more "alive" than the lower classes.

Another, secret conlang has a rational-irrational noun class system. Essentially, rational things are those that are capable of thinking and reasoning, and irrational things are those that are not. This acts isomorphically to an animacy system most of the time, with a few interesting exceptions: Small children and the clinically insane are placed in the irrational category.

In all my conlangs that have gender, it's fluid and semantic, where there's nothing ungrammatical about using unconventional agreement for effect. For example, referring to a person who is currently very upset, but not actually insane, with the irrational pronouns.
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Pirka
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Re: Gender

Post by Pirka » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 20:07

Micamo wrote:In all my conlangs that have gender, it's fluid and semantic, where there's nothing ungrammatical about using unconventional agreement for effect. For example, referring to a person who is currently very upset, but not actually insane, with the irrational pronouns.
That sounds nifty. Do you have an idea about how those pronouns grammaticized?
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Re: Gender

Post by Micamo » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 20:22

I do not!
My pronouns are <xie> [ʒiː] / <xer> [ʒɚ]

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Re: Gender

Post by Pirka » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 20:26

You do not?!

It's okay. I have no idea how most of my grammarz grammaticized either.

If you ever think of anything, I think it'd be an interesting read, seeing as the idea is pretty unique (or is it?).
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Re: Gender

Post by Tanni » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 21:18

Ossicone wrote:@Tanni: Thanks for the obvious and unhelpful advice

I have one lang with genders, Amjati, and one lang without genders, Inyauk.

In Amajti the genders are fairly arbitrary and you just have to remember what they are. The gender is marked on the article (it is partially inspired by a Germanic lang).

Ex:
ak jen - a boy
jenak - the boy
az jen - a girl
jenaz - the girl.
Sorry, Ossicone, I doubt you can judge for Ainuke what is helpful and what not. I gave that advice having French in mind. Ok, there are a few cases where they've resorted to the m. and f., and I didn't understand -- maybe not even notice -- that. So, if he has a dictionary with just m., f. and n., learning the genders will be hard. That's why I said he should learn the articles together with the words.
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Re: Gender

Post by Tanni » Sat 19 Mar 2011, 21:24

Micamo wrote:Acoi has 7 genders of an extended animacy system, though its only manifestation is agreement with a number prefix, marked on the head.

Male Humans
Animals
Female Humans
Force (Natural things that move, like falling rocks and the wind)
Plants and Fungi
Inanimate (stuff like rocks, sitting around doing nothing)
Abstractions

The higher classes are considered more "alive" than the lower classes.
You don't seem to be a feminist, if female humans are considered less alive than animals.
My neurochemistry has fucked my impulse control, now I'm diagnosed OOD = oppositional opinion disorder, one of the most deadly diseases in totalitarian states, but can be cured in the free world.
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