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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Mon 13 Nov 2017, 07:33
by Yrusia
Got around to re-translating some text into an unnamed daughterlang I've been working on, since I realized the (also unnamed) protolang it was originally in wouldn't actually have writing, so translating a letter might not actually work. In the process, I finally got to test out my crazy verb system. Hopefully I'll make a thread about the family at some point so I can show y'all - it's all the result of about 8 auxiliary verbs turned clitics turned affixes, plus the only remnant of the original markings - the progressive, -é (which, thanks to diachronics plus a heaping portion of analogy, usually becomes either -o˥, -i˩˥, or -k in the daughterlang)

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Mon 13 Nov 2017, 20:50
by bbbourq
After listening to the Conlanger Podcast on Possession, I was able to come up with a better reason to have two different types of genitive case endings: alienable vs. inalienable. Originally I had expressed -tho as an archaic form of the genitive; however, I could not find a suitable/realistic explanation of whence it came.
  • The endonym Lortho is the combination of the deity Lor plus the inalienable genitive -tho. However, over time this became a noun in and of itself, thereby allowing it to take case endings:
  • Code: Select all

    konphar-in   lortho-me
    speak  -1MSG lortho-ACC

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Tue 14 Nov 2017, 10:26
by DesEsseintes
Today I realised that Proto-Plains *q *qw probably weren’t uvular. They may have been pharyngeal approximants /ʕ ʕʷ/, pharyngeal stops /ʡ ʡʷ/, or pharyngealised velar stops /kˤ kʷˤ/, or even all three depending on speaker/dialect/etc.

In the Híí Proper branch of languages, the pharyngeal nature of the phonemes turned into voicing leading to their eventually evolving into /g b/.

A question though: labialised pharyngeal phonemes seem to be rare albeit easy to produce. Does anyone know of a reason why such sounds might be unlikely?

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Tue 14 Nov 2017, 17:18
by Void
Started working on a Symiric language spoken in Armenia and Turkey, splitting up from Old (Common) Symiric (spoken in northeastern Europe) at around the 10th century.

Sample examples:

Symiric: Vársot tülgiret ja ahsunot angaghjat hórol.
[ˈʋaːrso̞t ˈtylgire̞t jɑ ˈaxsuno̞t ˈɑŋɑʁjɑt ˈxo̞ro̞ːl]
fight-3SG.PL crow-PL and snake-PL corpse-GEN.PL between

Highland Symiric: Tüldjiret ja aasǫt warsat pühär ǫgaqhynat.
[ˈtylɟirɛt ja ˈaːsɔ̃t ˈwarsat ˈpyçær ˈɔ̃gaɰɨnat]
crow-PL and snake-PL fight-3SG.PL between corpse-GEN.PL

English: "The crows and ravens wage war betwixt the dead."

I've chosen cognate words on purpose; tülgir and ahsun are poetic words in Symiric; návur and ürjö are the more common variants of "crow" and "snake."

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:26
by Creyeditor
I did a preliminary family tree for the Northern Languages family in my Conworld. Sorry for not using a spoiler but they don't work for me (yet).

Image

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:46
by Davush
Creyeditor wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:26
I did a preliminary family tree for the Northern Languages family in my Conworld. Sorry for not using a spoiler but they don't work for me (yet).
I love language family trees. How many branches have you worked on?

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:50
by Ahzoh
Creyeditor wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:26
I did a preliminary family tree for the Northern Languages family in my Conworld. Sorry for not using a spoiler but they don't work for me (yet).

Image
Did you make that tree manually?
If so, this might do you better:
https://lautgesetz.com/latreex/

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 02:49
by Fluffy8x
Today.

I'm still looking for divisions of semantic space that aren't between nouns and verbs. Isoraķatheð had one based on time and space, but I don't want to blatantly rip off that system.

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 10:19
by Creyeditor
Davush wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:46
Creyeditor wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:26
I did a preliminary family tree for the Northern Languages family in my Conworld. Sorry for not using a spoiler but they don't work for me (yet).
I love language family trees. How many branches have you worked on?
I have worked quite a lot on Kobardon and Omlueuet. I have sketches for most other languages on the tree, with the least information about Xulfah, Proto Northern, and the modern Omlueuet Dialects. On CBB I only showed you Omlueuet and its antecessors (predecessor? what's even the difference?). I might add some languages to the tree on some point though.
Ahzoh wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:50
Creyeditor wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:26
[...]
Did you make that tree manually?
If so, this might do you better:
https://lautgesetz.com/latreex/
I actually used http://mshang.ca/syntree/, but I was looking for something like what you gave. Thank you [:)]

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 10:22
by Davush
DesEsseintes wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 10:26
Today I realised that Proto-Plains *q *qw probably weren’t uvular. They may have been pharyngeal approximants /ʕ ʕʷ/, pharyngeal stops /ʡ ʡʷ/, or pharyngealised velar stops /kˤ kʷˤ/, or even all three depending on speaker/dialect/etc.

In the Híí Proper branch of languages, the pharyngeal nature of the phonemes turned into voicing leading to their eventually evolving into /g b/.

A question though: labialised pharyngeal phonemes seem to be rare albeit easy to produce. Does anyone know of a reason why such sounds might be unlikely?
Yay for pharyngeals. [:D] I have no idea why labialised ones are uncommon though. Will we get to see a comparative overview of the Plains/Híí languages?

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 11:44
by Frislander
DesEsseintes wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 10:26
Today I realised that Proto-Plains *q *qw probably weren’t uvular. They may have been pharyngeal approximants /ʕ ʕʷ/, pharyngeal stops /ʡ ʡʷ/, or pharyngealised velar stops /kˤ kʷˤ/, or even all three depending on speaker/dialect/etc.

In the Híí Proper branch of languages, the pharyngeal nature of the phonemes turned into voicing leading to their eventually evolving into /g b/.

A question though: labialised pharyngeal phonemes seem to be rare albeit easy to produce. Does anyone know of a reason why such sounds might be unlikely?
Yay Híí diachronics! (I think for convenience sake though you're better off continuing with the <q> romanisation).

As for the labialisation issue, I think it's just an accident of the data, just because there's so few languages with pharyngeals (though that doesn't explain why Nuu-Chah-Nulth lost the labialisation of the uvulars when they turned into pharygeals).
Creyeditor wrote:
Wed 15 Nov 2017, 10:19
[...]
Did you make that tree manually?
If so, this might do you better:
https://lautgesetz.com/latreex/
[/quote]
I actually used http://mshang.ca/syntree/, but I was looking for something like what you gave. Thank you [:)]
[/quote]

These are both so good I'm saving these (though the lautgesetz one is the one I'll probably end up using because LaTeX).

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 14:07
by DesEsseintes
Frislander wrote:
Wed 15 Nov 2017, 11:44
DesEsseintes wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 10:26
Today I realised that Proto-Plains *q *qw probably weren’t uvular. They may have been pharyngeal ...
Yay Híí diachronics! (I think for convenience sake though you're better off continuing with the <q> romanisation).
That is indeed my intention, especially as the realisations will be left decidedly vague in order to excuse all kinds of behaviours. :mrgreen:

As for the labialisation issue, I think it's just an accident of the data, just because there's so few languages with pharyngeals
Yeah, that is a likely explanation (but see below)
(though that doesn't explain why Nuu-Chah-Nulth lost the labialisation of the uvulars when they turned into pharygeals).
Ooh, do you have a source on this sound change? Nuuhchahnulth has a full set of plain and labialised uvulars so if uvulars historically shifted to pharyngeals, how were the new uvulars generated? You’ve certainly piqued my curiosity there!

It is indeed the fact that Nuuhchahnulth has labialisation on all velar and uvular segments but lacks them in the pharyngeals that is making me worried about the plausibility of labialised velars and pharyngeals only in an inventory that doesn’t have labialisation elsewhere. (Wow that’s a long sentence...)
Davush wrote:
Wed 15 Nov 2017, 10:22
Will we get to see a comparative overview of the Plains/Híí languages?
I hope so. I’m thinking of attempting a thread on “Topics in Híí phonology” in the next few weeks, and perhaps I will try (again) to give an account of Híí diachronics.

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 15:44
by Iyionaku
Creyeditor wrote:
Tue 14 Nov 2017, 23:26
I did a preliminary family tree for the Northern Languages family in my Conworld. Sorry for not using a spoiler but they don't work for me (yet).

Image
Not related to the topic, but the spoiler tags don't work for me either. If I click them, they won't open.

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 18:11
by OTʜᴇB
Fluffy8x wrote:
Wed 15 Nov 2017, 02:49
Today.

I'm still looking for divisions of semantic space that aren't between nouns and verbs. Isoraķatheð had one based on time and space, but I don't want to blatantly rip off that system.
That looks really pretty. Is it LaTeX? Or just far too long fiddling with a word processor?

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov 2017, 22:37
by Fluffy8x
OTʜᴇB wrote:
Wed 15 Nov 2017, 18:11
That looks really pretty. Is it LaTeX? Or just far too long fiddling with a word processor?
I used XeLaTeX. These documents are available here.

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Thu 16 Nov 2017, 02:51
by thaen
I think I figured out how comparatives/superlatives, questions, topicalization, and "same verb partial negation" work in my currently-unnamed conlang.

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Thu 16 Nov 2017, 03:24
by LinguistCat
I have ideas for making two dialects for my cat youkai, and it makes perfect sense from a cultural/historical pov.

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Thu 16 Nov 2017, 06:33
by Fluffy8x

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Thu 16 Nov 2017, 08:46
by Ahzoh
So I added another addition to Vrkhazhian weaponry; it's basically a katar fused to a small egg-shaped buckler.

Re: What did you accomplish today?

Posted: Thu 16 Nov 2017, 15:40
by bbbourq
Ahzoh wrote:
Thu 16 Nov 2017, 08:46
So I added another addition to Vrkhazhian weaponry; it's basically a katar fused to a small egg-shaped buckler.
Not gonna lie, I had to look up both terms to see what you were talking about. Really cool!