What did you accomplish today?

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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by kiwikami » Thu 31 May 2018, 19:09

cedh wrote:
Wed 30 May 2018, 14:53
This looks and sounds interesting. What do the axis markers do? What do the abbreviations X/Y/Z/C/P/R stand for? What's the difference between + and -, or between -E and E-?
Historically, they were prepositional constructions that became grammaticalized; now, on verbs of motion, they could be considered productive derivational affixes. For those, X/Y/Z indicates the three spatial dimensions (with some exceptions), while C and P are containment and proximity. The +/- forms could be glossed as left/right, up/down, forward/backward, inside/outside, and near/far, respectively, with "e" forms perhaps translating as "level with" (perhaps "overlapping" for C). Plain "e" for P is spatially undefined and never used in the locational sense, only in a couple of idiomatic derivational constructions to mean something like "in moderation". The e+, e-, +e, -e, +-, and -+ forms show direction of motion, while the e, +, and - forms show location of the action itself. So rasṣútaı 1.move<Xe-> would be "I am moving (to my) right", while rassuaı 1.move<X+> would be "I am moving, while being over to the right (of some salient object)". In practice, the e/+/- forms aren't used in the locational sense much, and it's dealt with more often by actual prepositional phrases. One wouldn't usually say rassuaı, one would say... something like rasú rasaı das; I'm not certain. I have to go back and figure out how similar the modern prepositions actually are to the old ones that got grammaticalized.

But e/+/- forms show up much more often with verb roots that don't deal with motion; in these cases their meanings are highly lexicalized, and typically idiomatic/metaphorical/having nothing at all to do with direction. Only verbs of motion have full axis paradigms; the rest just have a handful of derived forms that use the axes as if they were the other half of a bipartite verb stem (or tripartite, if the verb is already a compound). Every X/Y/Z/C/P marker typically has a couple of different derivational meanings, and which one is relevant is just lexical. As an example, -dí- P- "far from" can attach to some stems with vaguely semantically related results; there's a sense of distance and/or approximation, and also usually a negative connotation:

dlırí - he is a leader > dlırdî - he is a political puppet
dıtatàh - I helped you (directly) > dıtatdîah - I gave you (well-meaning but unhelpful) advice
Ahùraı - you are telling the truth > Ahŭrdıraı - you are telling a partial truth
Ikísí - they are young > Ikísdî - they are naïve

Some, but not all, of these have related C- forms that don't have the negative connotation:
dlırḳŭı - he leads indirectly / from afar
dıtatḳŭaa - I gave you advice

Alternatively, you also get things like kaǎtdıaı "I am illuminating it from a distance" with -dí-, no negative connotations at all, and a clearly spatial sense of P-. There are patterns, but they're not clear-cut.

The R axis is different in that it's productive everywhere; it interacts with the aspect system and with a couple of other morphemes (including the defective E axis paradigm, which I'm still messing with) to create the tense system, where (roughly speaking) R+ is the future and R- in the past. I'm working out the kinks in that, especially given that R behaves slightly differently depending on whether the verb is in a perfective or imperfective aspect. I actually messed with the aspects yesterday as well, and most complex imperfective ones are now more clearly derived from their perfective forms plus the imperfective/durative suffix. Woop-de-doo, diachronics.
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by cedh » Fri 01 Jun 2018, 08:28

Thanks for the explanation. I like this a lot! [+1]
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by SLiV » Sat 02 Jun 2018, 18:10

I've been watching a Brazilian Portuguese series on Netflix, so today I was inspired to make a greeklang that sounded somewhat like Portuguese, but I didn't really get further than deciding that /ti/ would become [tʃi] before consonants and [tʃ] elsewhere, e.g. κοντινεντι [kɔntʃinɛntʃ]. I liked the silliness of the idea in my head, but when I try to map out a phonology to match (a subset of) the greek alphabet, I can't figure out what <ζ>, <ξ>, <ψ> and <χ> would do without it sounding like Parseltongue.

So instead, I looked through my notes on Kerdos and brushed off the Project Kerberos code (which was a successor of Project Efetis). I decided to forgo the diachronics and just focus on using Haskell and Latex to generate a dictionary, inflection tables and pronunciation guides for Kerdos. It is a bit more of a top-down approach compared to the previous attempts, so maybe a bit silly to try to achieve the look and feel that I want using only sound changes, but the automatic generation is nice. Here is a generated wordlist for Kerdos, consisting of declensions for all the nominals and present tense conjugations for all the verbs. I'll use it to iteratively work my way towards nice words like ψεδετε [psɛdətə], κιτης [kidæ:s], ζοσε [dzozə] and επιοµεν [epiɔmən], while resolving illegal clusters like *φδν [fdn] or *ναρφ [nɑrf].
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 22:48

SLiV wrote:
Sat 02 Jun 2018, 18:10
I've been watching a Brazilian Portuguese series on Netflix, so today I was inspired to make a greeklang that sounded somewhat like Portuguese, but I didn't really get further than deciding that /ti/ would become [tʃi] before consonants and [tʃ] elsewhere, e.g. κοντινεντι [kɔntʃinɛntʃ]. I liked the silliness of the idea in my head, but when I try to map out a phonology to match (a subset of) the greek alphabet, I can't figure out what <ζ>, <ξ>, <ψ> and <χ> would do without it sounding like Parseltongue.

So instead, I looked through my notes on Kerdos and brushed off the Project Kerberos code (which was a successor of Project Efetis). I decided to forgo the diachronics and just focus on using Haskell and Latex to generate a dictionary, inflection tables and pronunciation guides for Kerdos. It is a bit more of a top-down approach compared to the previous attempts, so maybe a bit silly to try to achieve the look and feel that I want using only sound changes, but the automatic generation is nice. Here is a generated wordlist for Kerdos, consisting of declensions for all the nominals and present tense conjugations for all the verbs. I'll use it to iteratively work my way towards nice words like ψεδετε [psɛdətə], κιτης [kidæ:s], ζοσε [dzozə] and επιοµεν [epiɔmən], while resolving illegal clusters like *φδν [fdn] or *ναρφ [nɑrf].
Interesting idea!

I remember that there used to be, at least, a user on here who had a Portuguese-influenced Hellenic conlang. atman was their username, if I'm not mistaken. I haven't seen them around for a while, but maybe you could look into trying to contact them or search the board for their work? I'm afraid I can't remember what their language's name was exactly, though. Just a thought. [:)]
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Dormouse559 » Tue 05 Jun 2018, 23:10

shimobaatar wrote:
Tue 05 Jun 2018, 22:48
SLiV wrote:
Sat 02 Jun 2018, 18:10
I've been watching a Brazilian Portuguese series on Netflix, so today I was inspired to make a greeklang that sounded somewhat like Portuguese, but I didn't really get further than deciding that /ti/ would become [tʃi] before consonants and [tʃ] elsewhere, e.g. κοντινεντι [kɔntʃinɛntʃ]. […]
Interesting idea!

I remember that there used to be, at least, a user on here who had a Portuguese-influenced Hellenic conlang. atman was their username, if I'm not mistaken. I haven't seen them around for a while, but maybe you could look into trying to contact them or search the board for their work? I'm afraid I can't remember what their language's name was exactly, though. Just a thought. [:)]
'Tis Atlantean of which thou speakst, kind shimo. [:)] Good suggestion.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by SLiV » Wed 06 Jun 2018, 11:00

shimobaatar wrote:
Tue 05 Jun 2018, 22:48
I remember that there used to be, at least, a user on here who had a Portuguese-influenced Hellenic conlang. atman was their username, if I'm not mistaken. I haven't seen them around for a while, but maybe you could look into trying to contact them or search the board for their work? I'm afraid I can't remember what their language's name was exactly, though. Just a thought. [:)]
Ooh, good call, I'll take a look at Atlantika. I also found Ancient Zacian (Zakikaa) by Iparxi_Zoi. At first glace both of them seem to have gotten rid of the non-romanic letters <ξ>, <ψ>, <χ>, <η> and <ω>, though, which is part of the charm of Greek for me. [:D]

I've expanded the list of sound changes to eliminate illegal clusters and added some more tenses to fill out the wordlist -- I've just discovered ελελιδηρκαμεν [eləlɪdæ:rkɑmən] --, but now I feel I've gone overboard emulating Greek grammar. I'm having a hard time deciding what I want out of this language. [:S]
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Pabappa » Sat 09 Jun 2018, 19:22

Resolution of word-initial consonant clusters following collapse of pretonic vowels in Tarise:

a chart
Image
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by kiwikami » Sat 09 Jun 2018, 20:48

Pabappa wrote:
Sat 09 Jun 2018, 19:22
Resolution of word-initial consonant clusters following collapse of pretonic vowels in Tarise:

a chart
That is very, very neat! [:D]
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Khemehekis » Mon 11 Jun 2018, 07:39

Coined more than 100 Kankonian words today.

Some concepts Kankonian now has words for:

arik shyulargyuph: inkhorn word (from arik, word, and Ciladian shyulargyuph (shyular, ancient + gyuph, root)
holdas: to leave out (as in "I left it out in the kitchen")
domdretsh: left out, excluded (as in "I feel left out")
berveph: oubliette (Ciladian, from ber, under + bheph, world)
urur: to intermingle (ablaut on orori, reticulated)
shmoup: lump (tumor, cyst, etc.)
shmoup-hekt: lumpectomy, tylectomy (from shmoup + -hekt, suffix for surgical removal)
pateltekweir: rules lawyering (from patel, system + tekweir, to distort, to twist)
reidrin: check; to check (test)
faz yaunedreidin: to test the system (from faz, to do + yauned, to get away with + reidrin)
zamarksisadbam: contrastive focus reduplication (from zamarksis, prototype + adbam, to double)
devesad: the right (rightist people, collectively) (from deves, traditional + -ad, Ciladian suffix for a set)
khemehekad: the left (leftist people, collectively) (from khemehek, counterculture (from Shaleyan khemehek, rebellion) + -ad)
fugroerta: ryania (from fugröta, the Povoian name for the plant)
fek*oerth: rye bread
zekikya: particle physics (from zekik, particle + -ya, scientific study)
zhetshakdomung: magnetron (from zhetshak, magnet + domung, tube)
gwaleton: yuzu
kmyutsh: paste (edible)
pardetyakh: propylaeum (from Ciladian: par, in front of + detyakh, temple)
gyulokt: colostomy
helarik: to solve a dispute with words instead of fighting (from hel, with + arik)
izhudia ad zensten: noise-cancelling headphones (from izhudia, headphones + ad, to, for + zensten, neutralization)
dzing: to axe, to cancel (a TV show); cancellation; to ding (reject)
khivtukvakun: compatibilism (from Ciladian khibhtukbhakun: khibhtuk, compatible (khibh, together + tuk, to fit) + bhakun, belief)
sikhivtukvakun: incompatibilism (from Ciladian sikhibhtukbhakun: si-, negative prefix + khibhtuk + bhakun)
taprila: fascinator (headpiece)
mushrogh: to dress warmly
sakoma: to dress coolly
shil hel artzas na ghoida na is: with the power invested in me by the state (lit. "as with my government power")
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by WeepingElf » Mon 11 Jun 2018, 19:22

So arik shyulargyuph 'inkhorn word' is itself an inkhorn word? Yeah!
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Khemehekis » Mon 11 Jun 2018, 22:37

WeepingElf wrote:
Mon 11 Jun 2018, 19:22
So arik shyulargyuph 'inkhorn word' is itself an inkhorn word? Yeah!
Yep! Isn't that funny?

Ciladian roots are very useful for things like number word sets (the -ptych words, the -meter words, the -athlon words, etc.)
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 24 Jun 2018, 03:23

I have decided upon a set of phonotactics that I think truly reflects the character of Onschen.
The basic syllable structure of a word is (C)(C)V(C). The onset of a syllable can be null, any consonant, or the clusters сц, шч, сл, слі, хл, or xлі. The nucleus is always a vowel. The coda of a syllable can be either null, or any of the consonants п, б, т, д, к, г, н, м, с, x, or і.
Image Ӯсцӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Šat Vṛḵažaẇ (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 24 Jun 2018, 07:05

SLiV wrote:
Sat 02 Jun 2018, 18:10
I've been watching a Brazilian Portuguese series on Netflix, so today I was inspired to make a greeklang that sounded somewhat like Portuguese, but I didn't really get further than deciding that /ti/ would become [tʃi] before consonants and [tʃ] elsewhere, e.g. κοντινεντι [kɔntʃinɛntʃ]. I liked the silliness of the idea in my head, but when I try to map out a phonology to match (a subset of) the greek alphabet, I can't figure out what <ζ>, <ξ>, <ψ> and <χ> would do without it sounding like Parseltongue.

So instead, I looked through my notes on Kerdos and brushed off the Project Kerberos code (which was a successor of Project Efetis). I decided to forgo the diachronics and just focus on using Haskell and Latex to generate a dictionary, inflection tables and pronunciation guides for Kerdos. It is a bit more of a top-down approach compared to the previous attempts, so maybe a bit silly to try to achieve the look and feel that I want using only sound changes, but the automatic generation is nice. Here is a generated wordlist for Kerdos, consisting of declensions for all the nominals and present tense conjugations for all the verbs. I'll use it to iteratively work my way towards nice words like ψεδετε [psɛdətə], κιτης [kidæ:s], ζοσε [dzozə] and επιοµεν [epiɔmən], while resolving illegal clusters like *φδν [fdn] or *ναρφ [nɑrf].
Hey, SLiV!
Greetings!!!

You may want to check out Costanice, a Greek :con: with Spanish-like sound changes as well
Waybacked link-
https://web.archive.org/web/20081203010 ... y/6/19/39/
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by SLiV » Sun 24 Jun 2018, 17:15

Lambuzhao wrote:
Sun 24 Jun 2018, 07:05
Hey, SLiV!
Greetings!!!

You may want to check out Costanice, a Greek :con: with Spanish-like sound changes as well
Waybacked link-
https://web.archive.org/web/20081203010 ... y/6/19/39/
Heya!

Ooh, another good suggestion. Your link seems broken, but I did find this page. Like the other two languages that were suggested, they seemed to have used greek phonology and vocabulary as a starting point but discarded the greek orthography in favor of a more romanic orthography. Looking through it, I did find the section on "Liaison" inspiring, especially using erenthesis to resolve hiatus.
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Lambuzhao » Mon 25 Jun 2018, 04:06

Marvelous is the Internet!
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ælfwine » Sat 30 Jun 2018, 23:51

I'm finally putting down the books and getting to work on my Pannonian romlang's most distinctive sound changes. For example, like in Albanian and Hungarian, there is voicing of plosives next to a sonorant. Furthermore, Latin A fronts to [{] after a velar consonant and to [e@] before a nasal, much like in English. Ergo, Latin CANTARE becomes Castellan [tSe@nda:] (the dropping of r in the infinitive, a feature shared with Friulan, Istriot and Romanian is also present.)
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 01 Jul 2018, 04:14

In my :lat: lang Çedara, /re/ is more and more being left out in pronunciation, though still it persists in orthography:

Ex.

amure /ã.mu:/ 'love' (:lat: am [<3] rem )
pidture /pit.thu:/ 'baker' (:lat: pistorem)
staggannure /ʃta.g:ã.n:u:/ 'they are' {from :lat: stantur)


For some reason I don't exactly get, the Çedara PRS.ACT.INF , which still retains final /r/, is still pronounced with it(?!)

amar /ã.ma:ɾ/ 'to love'
rasorger /ra.soɾ.ʤɛ:ɾ/ 'to arise'
venir /vẽ.ni:ɾ/

By now, they ought to be pronounced /ã.ma:/ /ra.soɾ.ʤɛ:/ /vẽ.ni:/

:?:
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by Ælfwine » Sun 01 Jul 2018, 22:12

Lambuzhao wrote:
Sun 01 Jul 2018, 04:14
In my :lat: lang Çedara, /re/ is more and more being left out in pronunciation, though still it persists in orthography:

Ex.

amure /ã.mu:/ 'love' (:lat: am [<3] rem )
pidture /pit.thu:/ 'baker' (:lat: pistorem)
staggannure /ʃta.g:ã.n:u:/ 'they are' {from :lat: stantur)


For some reason I don't exactly get, the Çedara PRS.ACT.INF , which still retains final /r/, is still pronounced with it(?!)

amar /ã.ma:ɾ/ 'to love'
rasorger /ra.soɾ.ʤɛ:ɾ/ 'to arise'
venir /vẽ.ni:ɾ/

By now, they ought to be pronounced /ã.ma:/ /ra.soɾ.ʤɛ:/ /vẽ.ni:/

:?:
Quite interesting Lambuzao. Perhaps it is lost thru analogy?
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by yangfiretiger121 » Wed 04 Jul 2018, 14:27

I know the topic's about today's accomplishment(s), but I forgot to post that Aʻatun has a working phoneme inventory as of yesterday. Forgive me?
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Re: What did you accomplish today?

Post by felipesnark » Tue 10 Jul 2018, 01:31

Working on a new conlang and its noun declensions. Here is one of the declensions with an example noun, razh /raʒ/:
Spoiler:
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