Surprising cognates

A forum for discussing linguistics or just languages in general.
Nortaneous
earth
earth
Posts: 592
Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 12:28

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Nortaneous » Tue 29 May 2018, 06:47

Armenian ewt'n "seven" ~ Akkadian sibittu id.
Finnish taivas "sky" ~ Georgian devi "monster" ~ Arabic diyū "demon" ~ English Tyr
Lule Sami boatsoj "reindeer" ~ Bashkir mïšï "moose" ~ English fee
Finnish sarvi "horn" ~ Finnish hirvi "elk" ~ English hornet ~ English cerebrum
Pite Sami tjuohte "hundred" ~ English cent
Finnish ajaa "drive" ~ Northern Sami vuodjit "drive" ~ English coagulate ~ Finnish ammatti "profession" ~ Irish amhas "hooligan" ~ French gérer "manage"
Moksha jerʹxke "lake" ~ Lithuanian jáura "bog"
Northern Sami miehta "honey" ~ Chinese id. ~ Malay madu id. ~ Yakut müöt id. ~ Lao mathu id. ~ Chechen moz id. (OK, I'm not sure about the last three, but it's probable)
Micmac atlai "shirt" < Basque atorra id.
Micmac elega:wit "he is a king" ~ Latvian redzēt "see"

also Iroquois < Basque-based pidgin (h)ilokoa "killer people"
User avatar
Pabappa
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat 18 Nov 2017, 02:41
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Pabappa » Thu 07 Jun 2018, 03:24

are the Micmac words all loans?

:eng:air and :eng: wind are cognates, if you follow the chains of words at http://enwp.org/wikt:air and http://enwp.org/wikt:wind , though the common element is just PIE *h2w-. Also in this word family are east, Austria, and Australia. meaning that the similarity of the names of the two countries is not such a coincidence after all, despite that they have different meanings.
Image
User avatar
Znex
roman
roman
Posts: 1161
Joined: Mon 12 Aug 2013, 13:05
Location: Australia

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Znex » Thu 07 Jun 2018, 13:41

:eng: stall
:lat: locum > :fra: lieu {place, location}
Both come from the PIE root *stel- {to put, place}.
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: :wls: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: : [:S] | :nor: :deu: :rom: :ind: :con: : [:x]
Conlangs: Pofp'ash, Ikwawese, Old Quelgic, Nisukil Pʰakwi, Apsiska
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2592
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » Sun 10 Jun 2018, 05:43

:eng: <iron> <sister> <sangria>
PIE *h₁ésh₂r̥ "Blood">Proto-Celtic *īsarnom "Iron ["Bloody Metal"]">borrowed by PGerm *īsarną>O. :eng: īren> :eng: <Iron>
>*PIE su-h₁ésh₂-ōr "self-blood-FEM">PGerm *swestēr> O:eng:sweostor>:eng: sister
> :lat: sanguis "blood"> :esp: sangre>:esp: sangria "blood like [drink]">borrowed :eng: sangria
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 10056
Joined: Fri 12 Jul 2013, 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 26 Jun 2018, 05:02

Apparently, "arsenic" might be related to "yellow".
User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 2918
Joined: Sat 04 Jan 2014, 04:47
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Tue 26 Jun 2018, 14:59

English head(native Germanic word), chief, chef(from French, ultimately from Latin), cape(from French, ultimately from Latin), cap(ultimately from Latin), capital(from Latin), jefe(from Spanish, ultimately from Latin), and kapala(from Tibet, ultimately from Sanskrit)
私のアツい人工言語活動!言カツ!始まります!!
User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 2592
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 03:06

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » Tue 26 Jun 2018, 18:42

k1234567890y wrote:
Tue 26 Jun 2018, 14:59
English head(native Germanic word), chief, chef(from French, ultimately from Latin), cape(from French, ultimately from Latin), cap(ultimately from Latin), capital(from Latin), jefe(from Spanish, ultimately from Latin), and kapala(from Tibet, ultimately from Sanskrit)
Also Chapter,, from a French doublet of Chief.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
User avatar
Pabappa
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat 18 Nov 2017, 02:41
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Pabappa » Tue 26 Jun 2018, 19:58

k1234567890y wrote:
Tue 26 Jun 2018, 14:59
English head(native Germanic word), chief, chef(from French, ultimately from Latin), cape(from French, ultimately from Latin), cap(ultimately from Latin), capital(from Latin), jefe(from Spanish, ultimately from Latin), and kapala(from Tibet, ultimately from Sanskrit)
from the last one you could then add :jpn: 瓦 /kawara/ "tile; covering; kneecap".
Image
Ælfwine
greek
greek
Posts: 755
Joined: Mon 21 Sep 2015, 00:28
Location: New Jersey

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Ælfwine » Wed 27 Jun 2018, 04:03

English magician, via French magicien, via Latin magus, via Greek mágos (itself from an indeterminate Iranian origin)

Chinese wū 巫 "shaman, witch", possibly from Sino-Tibetan *mjaɣ, loaned from Persian *maguš

Somewhat controversial, as wū 巫 could also be from mu 母 meaning mother, given the tradition of female shamanesses.
svld
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2010, 11:12

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by svld » Wed 27 Jun 2018, 09:57

巫 and 母 in oracle bone script look nothing alike though.
User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2453
Joined: Sun 11 Jan 2015, 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Wed 27 Jun 2018, 22:36

svld wrote:
Wed 27 Jun 2018, 09:57
巫 and 母 in oracle bone script look nothing alike though.
That doesn’t mean the words themselves aren’t related. They may have already been considered separate words in Old Chinese.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4375
Joined: Tue 14 Aug 2012, 18:32

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor » Thu 28 Jun 2018, 15:35

Pabappa wrote:
Tue 26 Jun 2018, 19:58
k1234567890y wrote:
Tue 26 Jun 2018, 14:59
English head(native Germanic word), chief, chef(from French, ultimately from Latin), cape(from French, ultimately from Latin), cap(ultimately from Latin), capital(from Latin), jefe(from Spanish, ultimately from Latin), and kapala(from Tibet, ultimately from Sanskrit)
from the last one you could then add :jpn: 瓦 /kawara/ "tile; covering; kneecap".
We already had this a few pages ago. There is also Indonesian (!) 'kepala'.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]
clawgrip
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2393
Joined: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 06:33
Location: Tokyo

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by clawgrip » Wed 04 Jul 2018, 00:34

GrandPiano wrote:
Wed 27 Jun 2018, 22:36
svld wrote:
Wed 27 Jun 2018, 09:57
巫 and 母 in oracle bone script look nothing alike though.
That doesn’t mean the words themselves aren’t related. They may have already been considered separate words in Old Chinese.
Indeed, it's important not to confuse script etymology with spoken language etymology. Words of common origin are sometimes written with different characters. Japanese in particular is full of this, since kanji is basically a foreign writing system that has nothing to do with Japanese etymology, but Chinese surely has the same thing as well.
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7527
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Lambuzhao » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 16:58

Znex wrote:
Thu 07 Jun 2018, 13:41
:eng: stall
:lat: locum > :fra: lieu {place, location}
Both come from the PIE root *stel- {to put, place}.
Those crazy Old latin /stl/ words, like stlocus, stlatus, stloppus.

What the hey, Latin?!
[o.O]
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7527
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Lambuzhao » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 17:05

Shemtov wrote:
Sun 10 Jun 2018, 05:43
:eng: <iron> <sister> <sangria>
PIE *h₁ésh₂r̥ "Blood">Proto-Celtic *īsarnom "Iron ["Bloody Metal"]">borrowed by PGerm *īsarną>O. :eng: īren> :eng: <Iron>
>*PIE su-h₁ésh₂-ōr "self-blood-FEM">PGerm *swestēr> O:eng:sweostor>:eng: sister
> :lat: sanguis "blood"> :esp: sangre>:esp: sangria "blood like [drink]">borrowed :eng: sangria
Interestingly, Italic also has a representative in the first *h₁ésh₂r̥ category as well.

Old :lat: had assyr, aser, ascer 'blood'.

Bloody well right!
[}:D]
User avatar
Lambuzhao
earth
earth
Posts: 7527
Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Lambuzhao » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 17:07

Lambuzhao wrote:
Thu 05 Jul 2018, 17:05
Shemtov wrote:
Sun 10 Jun 2018, 05:43
:eng: <iron> <sister> <sangria>
PIE *h₁ésh₂r̥ "Blood">Proto-Celtic *īsarnom "Iron ["Bloody Metal"]">borrowed by PGerm *īsarną>O. :eng: īren> :eng: <Iron>
>*PIE su-h₁ésh₂-ōr "self-blood-FEM">PGerm *swestēr> O:eng:sweostor>:eng: sister
> :lat: sanguis "blood"> :esp: sangre>:esp: sangria "blood like [drink]">borrowed :eng: sangria
Interestingly, Italic also has a representative in the first *h₁ésh₂r̥ category as well.

Old :lat: had assyr, aser, ascer 'blood'.

Bloody well right!
[}:D]
Is it by his very blood that mankind is drawn to Mars?
User avatar
WeepingElf
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue 23 Feb 2016, 18:42
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by WeepingElf » Thu 05 Jul 2018, 22:01

There is this chiastic pattern in the two biggest Germanic languages:

:deu: Schaum 'foam' ~ :eng: scum
:deu: Feim 'scum' ~ :eng: foam

Though Feim is now obsolete in Standard German, but the derived adjective abgefeimt 'cunning' is still in use.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4386
Joined: Thu 20 Nov 2014, 02:27

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by qwed117 » Sun 15 Jul 2018, 20:25

:ind: Hindi चाबी caabi /t͡ʃaːbiː/ "key" ~ :esp: Spanish llave /ʎaβe/ "key"

Both are from Latin clavis. Hindi gets it from a Portuguese intermediary.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 2918
Joined: Sat 04 Jan 2014, 04:47
Contact:

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 21:02

Chinese and English wheel, it is possible that the Chinese word was ultimately a borrowing from a word for wheel from Indo-European languages
私のアツい人工言語活動!言カツ!始まります!!
User avatar
Imralu
greek
greek
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun 17 Nov 2013, 22:32

Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Imralu » Fri 20 Jul 2018, 05:36

k1234567890y wrote:
Thu 19 Jul 2018, 21:02
Chinese and English wheel, it is possible that the Chinese word was ultimately a borrowing from a word for wheel from Indo-European languages
Posts like this would be more interesting if you include the pronunciation.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
MY MUSIC
Post Reply