False cognates

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Aszev
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Re: False cognates

Post by Aszev » Sun 10 Jun 2018, 18:02

English Ferris wheel (from the person G.W.G. Ferris)

Swe/Dan/Nor pariserhjul (from the city of Paris)
Sound change works in mysterious ways.

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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 10 Jun 2018, 20:04

Aszev wrote:
Sun 10 Jun 2018, 18:02
English Ferris wheel (from the person G.W.G. Ferris)

Swe/Dan/Nor pariserhjul (from the city of Paris)
Oh wow that's a really interesting one!
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Tue 19 Jun 2018, 21:24

:lat: IOVE /jowe/ "To Jupiter" :isr: The Tetragrammaton according to Genesius; both are /jVwe/ sequences.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Wed 20 Jun 2018, 00:46

:ind: पैसा /pɛsa/"Unit of Indian currency" :esp: Peso "Unit of currency in many Hispanic countries"
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 07:28

Just found this:

Chichewa ufa "flour" and Manchu ufa "flour"
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Re: False cognates

Post by eldin raigmore » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 20:08

Shemtov wrote:
Wed 20 Jun 2018, 00:46
:ind: पैसा /pɛsa/"Unit of Indian currency" :esp: Peso "Unit of currency in many Hispanic countries"
How do we know this is a false cognate?
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Thu 19 Jul 2018, 20:21

eldin raigmore wrote:
Thu 19 Jul 2018, 20:08
Shemtov wrote:
Wed 20 Jun 2018, 00:46
:ind: पैसा /pɛsa/"Unit of Indian currency" :esp: Peso "Unit of currency in many Hispanic countries"
How do we know this is a false cognate?
The Hindi word actually comes from PIE *pods "Foot", meaning "A Foot-Length of something" that somehow became a unit of weight. Peso comes from a Latin word related to the Latin word that gave us "Pound", which both come from PIE *(s)pend "To stretch"
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » Fri 20 Jul 2018, 02:08

So, generally I'd be skeptical of conlang examples without some pretty involved justification to show that there wasn't even subconscious borrowing, but it just so happens my conlang Wena (which I'm now calling Ngehu) has this:
  • :con: Ngehu: mwalimu = teacher, mentor, guru (from mwa "leader" + limu "learner", which in turn comes from li "beginner" + mu "knowing one")
  • :tan: Swahili: mwalimu (pl. walimu) = teacher (from Arabic: مُعَلِّم‎ muʿallim "teacher", which is derived from عَلَّمَ‎ ʿallama "to teach", from the root ع ل م‎ ʿ-l-m which is related to knowing and knowledge)
So, the reason it fits here is it's not even a subconscious borrowing. I came up with all the syllabic roots for Wena/Ngehu well before I started learning Swahili or ever knew the word mwalimu. The obvious word for "teach(er)" would be zyelimu, basically "one who causes/makes learners" but that sounds very much more like the compulsory education word - someone who forces learning. When I was writing it down I suddenly thought "That sounds like Swahili mwalimu!" and I realised that using mwa "leader", we get a softer sounding word, more like a facilitator of learning, mentor, guru etc., which also matches how mwalimu is used as an honorific title Swahili, especially referring to Julius Nyerere. So, indirectly, it's kind of a borrowing because I thought of using mwa because of Swahili, but without Swahili I could easily have created this word from these roots, especially if looking for an honorific kind of word for a teacher/mentor.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Iyionaku » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 14:29

:fin: ilma - air
:isl: ilma - to smell pleasant

It looks to good not to be true, but apparently they are really not related. The Finnic word is of Proto-Uralic origin and I doubt that there are too many Uralic loanwords in Icelandic, let alone ones that have maintained their original form so well.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » Mon 23 Jul 2018, 21:44

Oh, thanks, you just reminded me of my all time favorite : ) From the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Icelandic: :isl: Menn eru gæddir vitsmunum og samvizku,

Welsh :wls: Fe'u cynysgaeddir â rheswm a chydwybod,

Apparently both words have the same meaning, roughly "endowed", and are not cognate to each other .... the Icelandic one is distantly cognate to English "get" and the Welsh one goes back to a separate PIE root that also gave rise to the "have/had" family.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » Sat 28 Jul 2018, 19:44

:eng: flake ~ :esp: flaco "thin" are apparently unrelated, unless the spanish goes back to an unknown Latin loan. But the meanings seem to drift further apart going back in time.
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Sun 29 Jul 2018, 17:48

English Tungus(a member of Tungusic peoples) and Turkish Domuz "Pig"(from Proto-Turkic *doŋuŕ) might not be cognates, while some claims that the English word might ultimately from the word for pig in a Turkic language(e.g. Yakut).
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 17:58

Double post =_=|||

English obsolete common noun steven and English proper noun Steven/Stephen
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Re: False cognates

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 18:57

k1234567890y wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 17:58
Double post =_=|||

English obsolete common noun steven and English proper noun Steven/Stephen
(Please tell us what Chaucer meant when he wrote “steven”. Or “stevene”. And how he thought his characters and his readers would pronounce it. )

It’s a great example!
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 19:45

eldin raigmore wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 18:57
k1234567890y wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 17:58
Double post =_=|||

English obsolete common noun steven and English proper noun Steven/Stephen
(Please tell us what Chaucer meant when he wrote “steven”. Or “stevene”. And how he thought his characters and his readers would pronounce it. )

It’s a great example!
steven meant "voice" in older English, btw. and is a native word; while Steven as a proper noun is a Greco-Latin word and means "crown, wreath" in Ancient Greek.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:16

Apparently it survives as "even steven" .... I'd always assumed that that was just a rhyme based on the proper name.
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:40

Pabappa wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:16
Apparently it survives as "even steven" .... I'd always assumed that that was just a rhyme based on the proper name.
how so?
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Re: False cognates

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 30 Jul 2018, 23:17

k1234567890y wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:40
Pabappa wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:16
Apparently it survives as "even steven" .... I'd always assumed that that was just a rhyme based on the proper name.
how so?
What's unclear?
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn » Tue 31 Jul 2018, 05:40

Really cool one I just discovered:
:deu: Vielfraß "glutton" (from Old German compound vilifrāʒ)
:deu: Vielfraß "wolverine" (from Old Norse fjellfräs meaning mountain cat)
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Tue 31 Jul 2018, 07:09

All4Ɇn wrote:
Tue 31 Jul 2018, 05:40
Really cool one I just discovered:
:deu: Vielfraß "glutton" (from Old German compound vilifrāʒ)
:deu: Vielfraß "wolverine" (from Old Norse fjellfräs meaning mountain cat)
nice (:
shimobaatar wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 23:17
k1234567890y wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:40
Pabappa wrote:
Mon 30 Jul 2018, 20:16
Apparently it survives as "even steven" .... I'd always assumed that that was just a rhyme based on the proper name.
how so?
What's unclear?
was wondering what made him/her think the proper noun possibility at first
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