False cognates

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GrandPiano
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Sat 31 Mar 2018, 21:55

:hkg: 化石 faa3sek6 "fossil" - :eng: "fossil"
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 02 Apr 2018, 03:25

:jpn: Okinawan 五ち ichichi "five" (with counter) - :jpn: Japanese 一 ichi "one"

(The Okinawan word is actually cognate to Japanese 五つ itsutsu, which has the same meaning)
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: False cognates

Post by Znex » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 13:23

:por: obrigado vs. :jpn: ありがとう arigatō "thank you"
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: :wls: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: : [:S] | :nor: :deu: :rom: :ind: :con: : [:x]
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 16:22

Khemehekis wrote:
Mon 29 Jul 2013, 06:36
If /m/ is a typical first consonant and /t/ a typical second consonant, speakers all around the world would think /m/ the most natural sound for a first-person pronoun and /t/ the most natural sound for a second-person pronoun.
Another possibility is that the pattern of having /m/ as the initial consonant of the 1st pronoun singular and /t/ as the initial consonant of the 2nd pronoun singular is because they are really cognates, either the similarities were formed by borrowing(the borrowing of singular pronouns is not common, but it might have happened, it is claimed that the whole pronoun system of Piraha might be a borrowing from Nheengatu) or that they had a very old common ancestor which is impossible to reconstruct.

Besides the /m/ as the initial consonant of the 1st pronoun singular and /t/ as the initial consonant of the 2nd pronoun singular thing, which is basically a northern Eurasian thing, there's another pattern of personal pronouns which existed among aboriginal languages of the west coast of the Americans: /n/ as a part of the 1st pronoun singular and /m/ as a part of the 2nd pronoun singular
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Re: False cognates

Post by Creyeditor » Thu 12 Apr 2018, 20:50

Also a Papuan thing (across family boundaries IIRC) is n- for the first person and k- for the second person.
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 01:01

Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 12 Apr 2018, 20:50
Also a Papuan thing (across family boundaries IIRC) is n- for the first person and k- for the second person.
nice (:

back to false cognates, maybe the Papuan 1st /n/-pronouns and the American 1st /n/-pronouns can be an example of false cognates?
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Re: False cognates

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 10:10

We should find concrete examples then, probably [:)]
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:38

k1234567890y wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 01:01
Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 12 Apr 2018, 20:50
Also a Papuan thing (across family boundaries IIRC) is n- for the first person and k- for the second person.
nice (:

back to false cognates, maybe the Papuan 1st /n/-pronouns and the American 1st /n/-pronouns can be an example of false cognates?
Also, Semitic and other families placed in Afro-Asiatic have /n/ 1P and /k/ 2P, though Semitic alternates with /t/ or /nt/ /k/ being the enclitic form, though Neo-Aramaic, and divergent Arabic Dialects use /t͡ʃ/ and some Ethiopic languages use /h/.
Last edited by Shemtov on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:45

Shemtov wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:38

Also, Semitic and other families placed in Afro-Asiatic have /n/ 1P and /k/ 2P, though Semitic alternates with /t/.
wow, that's really a big coincidence.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:51

Though Akkadian seems to have dropped the /k/ enclitic forms for only /t/, while /k/ became the 1P enclitic. [O.O]
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 21:06

Shemtov wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:51
Though Akkadian seems to have dropped the /k/ enclitic forms for only /t/, while /k/ became the 1P enclitic. [O.O]
maybe the 2S enclitic form and the 1P enclitic form have different etymologies?
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 21:25

k1234567890y wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 21:06
Shemtov wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:51
Though Akkadian seems to have dropped the /k/ enclitic forms for only /t/, while /k/ became the 1P enclitic. [O.O]
maybe the 2S enclitic form and the 1P enclitic form have different etymologies?
P stands the "Person", not Plural.
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y » Fri 13 Apr 2018, 22:00

Shemtov wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 21:25
k1234567890y wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 21:06
Shemtov wrote:
Fri 13 Apr 2018, 20:51
Though Akkadian seems to have dropped the /k/ enclitic forms for only /t/, while /k/ became the 1P enclitic. [O.O]
maybe the 2S enclitic form and the 1P enclitic form have different etymologies?
P stands the "Person", not Plural.
ok

sorry for misunderstanding
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Mon 07 May 2018, 01:54

:kor: :ara: /wa/. Both mean "and", though the :kor: form alternates with, and may be a shortening of /kwa/.
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Re: False cognates

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » Mon 07 May 2018, 19:45

Just learned that :eng: heather and heath are not cognates. That's surprising.
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Re: False cognates

Post by eldin raigmore » Tue 08 May 2018, 06:55

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Mon 07 May 2018, 19:45
Just learned that :eng: heather and heath are not cognates. That's surprising.
They seem to be saying that they _may_ be unrelated; not that they definitely _are_ unrelated.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Creyeditor » Tue 08 May 2018, 07:58

German '(und) dann' and Indonesian 'dan' both can be used to introduce sentences whose events temporally follow the events of the preceding sentence.
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 21 May 2018, 19:06

Shemtov wrote:
Mon 07 May 2018, 01:54
:kor: :ara: /wa/. Both mean "and", though the :kor: form alternates with, and may be a shortening of /kwa/.
Adding on to this, apparently wa means “and” in Ainu as well.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: False cognates

Post by Lao Kou » Sat 09 Jun 2018, 13:13

:idn: suka, :jpn: 好き suki "like"
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Re: False cognates

Post by Khemehekis » Sat 09 Jun 2018, 21:48

:chn: 淡褐色 dàn hèsè / :eng: hazel
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