False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

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GrandPiano
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 00:42

Shemtov wrote:
Sun 12 Aug 2018, 22:49
:chn: 漢 Hàn (South) "Chinese people" :kor: 한 /han/ "Korea; Korean".
This exists within Mandarin, too - 韓 hán means “Korean”. 漢 and 韓 (simplified: 汉 and 韩) are mainly used in compound words, though; the only common pair that’s likely to cause confusion for learners unaccustomed to tones is 漢語 hànyǔ “Chinese (language)” and 韓語 hányǔ “Korean (language)” (fortunately, 中文 zhōngwén and 韓文 hánwén exist as alternate names for the languages).
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 01:36

:eng: Libido :eth: /libido/ "Name of Cushitic language"
If someone could tell me the code for Ethiopia, thanks.
EDIT: Thank you, GrandPiano.
Last edited by Shemtov on Mon 13 Aug 2018, 06:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 06:25

Shemtov wrote:
Mon 13 Aug 2018, 01:36
If someone could tell me the code for Ethiopia, thanks.
It’s “eth”. All of the flag codes are three letters long AFAIK.
:eng: - Native
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:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Zé do Rock » Mon 13 Aug 2018, 23:09

I was new in Germany, had a job, and a lady told that a guy came with full 'carajo' down the street, and i asked myself what she ment with it, since she seemed to be a quite decent lady, and for me what she was saying was that the guy came with a "full penis" down the street. 'Carajo' is for me a penis, in spanish. But in german it means 'momentum'. The word clearly seems to come from spanish, so i guess somebody misunderstood something...

Greetings from Babilon, in Czechia
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » Tue 14 Aug 2018, 22:23

:isr: /pɛrɛd/~/fɛrɛd/ "Mule" Yiddish /fɛrd/ "Horse". And they're not cognates; the Yiddish comes from MHG *pfɛrd with the regular sound change in Yiddish /pf/>/f/.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » Wed 15 Aug 2018, 23:56

English Gypsy(derogative term for Romani people) and English Gypsum

English Rome and English Romani
Shemtov wrote:
Tue 14 Aug 2018, 22:23
:isr: /pɛrɛd/~/fɛrɛd/ "Mule" Yiddish /fɛrd/ "Horse". And they're not cognates; the Yiddish comes from MHG *pfɛrd with the regular sound change in Yiddish /pf/>/f/.
wow

you can share this to the false cognate thread too
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Shemtov » Thu 16 Aug 2018, 00:42

k1234567890y wrote:
Wed 15 Aug 2018, 23:56

you can share this to the false cognate thread too
Jewish culture doesn't allow the same semantic linkage between "Horse" and "mule" that Western culture does, as mule-breeding is forbidden.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by k1234567890y » Thu 16 Aug 2018, 14:55

Shemtov wrote:
Thu 16 Aug 2018, 00:42
k1234567890y wrote:
Wed 15 Aug 2018, 23:56

you can share this to the false cognate thread too
Jewish culture doesn't allow the same semantic linkage between "Horse" and "mule" that Western culture does, as mule-breeding is forbidden.
ok o.o
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Iyionaku » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 07:50

Stumbled across this one:

:deu: Postbote - postman
:lux: Bréifboîte - postbox

It may not be immediately clear why this is a false friend. But in German, you could also say "Briefbote" and even though the word does not exist everyone would understand that "Postbote" is meant. So when I stumbled across "Bréifboîte" I immediately thought it must mean Postbote (especially as Luxembourgish is technically a Mosel-Franconian dialect of High German). But this is not the case.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 19:02

Iyionaku wrote:
Fri 17 Aug 2018, 07:50
Stumbled across this one:


:deu: Postbote - postman
:lux: Bréifboîte - postbox

It may not be immediately clear why this is a false friend. But in German, you could also say "Briefbote" and even though the word does not exist everyone would understand that "Postbote" is meant. So when I stumbled across "Bréifboîte" I immediately thought it must mean Postbote (especially as Luxembourgish is technically a Mosel-Franconian dialect of High German). But this is not the case.
But wouldn't :lux: Bréifboîte make you think of :deu: Briefbeutel? I think Briefbeutel or Brieftasche are used in some German varieties for wallet. So just another False Friend.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Zé do Rock » Fri 17 Aug 2018, 23:00

Creyeditor wrote:
Fri 17 Aug 2018, 19:02
Iyionaku wrote:
Fri 17 Aug 2018, 07:50
Stumbled across this one:


:deu: Postbote - postman
:lux: Bréifboîte - postbox

It may not be immediately clear why this is a false friend. But in German, you could also say "Briefbote" and even though the word does not exist everyone would understand that "Postbote" is meant. So when I stumbled across "Bréifboîte" I immediately thought it must mean Postbote (especially as Luxembourgish is technically a Mosel-Franconian dialect of High German). But this is not the case.
But wouldn't :lux: Bréifboîte make you think of :deu: Briefbeutel? I think Briefbeutel or Brieftasche are used in some German varieties for wallet. So just another False Friend.
CESKY ANGLICKY

Aj čekd it and it eksists indíd, and ajv heard of geldbeutel and brieftasche, but nevr of briefbeutel. Hav ju?


ENGLISH

I checked it and it exists indeed, and i've heard of geldbeutel and brieftasche, but never of briefbeutel. Have you?
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by All4Ɇn » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 02:26

Creyeditor wrote:
Fri 17 Aug 2018, 19:02
I think Briefbeutel or Brieftasche are used in some German varieties for wallet
Brieftasche was actually the word my German textbooks used for wallet. It was only later that I learned no one uses it and Portemonnaie is the main word for wallet now.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 09:13

All4Ɇn wrote:
Sat 18 Aug 2018, 02:26
Creyeditor wrote:
Fri 17 Aug 2018, 19:02
I think Briefbeutel or Brieftasche are used in some German varieties for wallet
Brieftasche was actually the word my German textbooks used for wallet. It was only later that I learned no one uses it and Portemonnaie is the main word for wallet now.
Me, I''d just adjust to what the folks in the street are saying after you land. I fully appreciate that we have native German speakers in the forum and that there is a "standard" from which dialectal differences may yaw wildly. But what can you do?

My German dictionary offers German-English/English-German the word Brieftasche for "wallet". So this is not the "standard"? Creyeditor writes this off as a word "used in some German varieties", which makes it sound dialectal and substandard.

Meanwhile, All4Ɇn tells us that the street word is Portemonnaie, which my dictionary lists as "purse", which in English has its own tale of woes.

So, how do say at the Berlin airport that my wallet appears to be missing, without officers giving each other glances that say "out-of-towner" and launching into condescending English? I can only start with Brieftasche and move on from there, oder?

(After 3+ months, perhaps I could talk to a policeman more with regional authenticity about being pickpocketed.)
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 12:14

Sorry, for the confusion. For me "used in some German varieties" means it's not used in my variety, no matter what is standard. I am also not sure about Briefbeutel.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Lao Kou » Sat 18 Aug 2018, 14:44

Creyeditor wrote:
Sat 18 Aug 2018, 12:14
Sorry, for the confusion. For me "used in some German varieties" means it's not used in my variety, no matter what is standard. I am also not sure about Briefbeutel.
Silly billy -- you didn't tell us how you say "wallet" in your varietal neck of the woods.

Personally, I get a little frisson when a "yet another usage" thread involves a language other than English. [;)]

A quick noodle around Linguee seems to indicate that Brieftasche is the preferred term for what I would call a wallet. I also found Geldbeutel, but that seems to lurch into murky wallet/purse territory. Briefbeutel only yielded "mailbag", something that only postal carriers in the 1950s or in the most rural postal districts would still use, so not an immensely useful term.

Back to the original offender, Luxemgourgish: as someone who flatters himself on speaking marginally passable French, I find boîte immediately suggests "box" as French a loan with nothing to do with German Bote. The real mindblow is the éi of Bréif, which seems to be a Luxembourgish orthographic quirk for [ɜɪ̯].
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Zé do Rock » Sun 19 Aug 2018, 09:07

REFORMIRT

Ich bin kain muttasprachla, aba shon lange hir, und ich sag geldboitel, ich glaub auch die maisten mit denen ich zu tun hab. Brieftasche, portemonnaie, geldbörse ar uther normal werds for it. Le seul mo ke je ha jamai escutee etè briefbeutel, mesmo si il parese exister. Y no teno la sensacion ki eso es una kestion regional, parese simplemente ki la deutshis aún no incontraron una palabra claramente preferid.


ENGLISH

I'm not a native speaker, but i've been around for quite a while, and i say geldbeutel, as most people around me. Brieftasche, portemonnaie, geldbörse are other normal words for it. The only one i've never heard was briefbeutel, altho it seems to exist. And i dont feel this is something regional, it just seems that germans havent found a clearly preferred word so far...
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Creyeditor » Sun 19 Aug 2018, 10:51

Sorry for derailing btw
Zé do Rock wrote:
Sun 19 Aug 2018, 09:07
And i dont feel this is something regional, it just seems that germans havent found a clearly preferred word so far...
Lao Kou wrote:
Sat 18 Aug 2018, 14:44
Silly billy -- you didn't tell us how you say "wallet" in your varietal neck of the woods.
<Porte­mon­naie ~ Port­mo­nee> [pɔː.mɔ.ne~pɔːt.mɔ.ne] is the only word I have ever heard around Hamburg especially from people living there for some time. Also the one I would use.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Iyionaku » Mon 20 Aug 2018, 11:47

Creyeditor wrote:
Sun 19 Aug 2018, 10:51
Sorry for derailing btw
Zé do Rock wrote:
Sun 19 Aug 2018, 09:07
And i dont feel this is something regional, it just seems that germans havent found a clearly preferred word so far...
Lao Kou wrote:
Sat 18 Aug 2018, 14:44
Silly billy -- you didn't tell us how you say "wallet" in your varietal neck of the woods.
<Porte­mon­naie ~ Port­mo­nee> [pɔː.mɔ.ne~pɔːt.mɔ.ne] is the only word I have ever heard around Hamburg especially from people living there for some time. Also the one I would use.
In Swabia, almost everyone uses "Geldbeutel", but both "Portemonnaie" and "Brieftasche" would be perfectly understood. I'm not so sure about "Briefbeutel", it sounds wrong to me.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Iyionaku » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 07:33

Found another structual one:

:eng: all but
:deu: alles außer (everything except)

In a sentence like "nowadays, smoking in restaurants is all but forbidden", if you translate it too literally into German it sounds like smoking in restaurants is everything, but not forbidden.
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Post by Pabappa » Thu 23 Aug 2018, 15:14

I never use "all but" because I don't like a construction that means the opposite of what it seems. Poetry has its place but i prefer direct and to the point. Anyone know how thw expression came about to begin with?

Edit: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:all_but <--- actually this might explain.... it came through a meaning of "almost", as in "all ( but not quite) ".
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