Gender ideology in languages

A forum for discussing linguistics or just languages in general.
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Ahzoh
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Re: Gender ideology in languages

Post by Ahzoh » Mon 03 Oct 2016, 12:16

CrazyEttin wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:
CrazyEttin wrote:Socially constructed != fake.
How do they not equate?
A language creator who thinks social constructs are fake. This might be the most ironic thing i’ve ever seen.
If something is fake (as opposed to real) then it isn't as... "real"... as something like skin colour or sex. It's not really there per se, rather it floats in the minds of people whereby they project it onto reality.
And perhaps language is also fake in this regard, since we describe the world with words, which aren't real.

But it can be argued whether some fake thing is a "useful fiction" or not. The person whom I mentioned earlier that I was debating was arguing that gender was useless fiction and that the views of transgendered people regarding gender was simply in their head and a matter of identity politics, like Rachel Dolezal being "transracial".
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CrazyEttin
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Re: Gender ideology in languages

Post by CrazyEttin » Mon 03 Oct 2016, 17:12

Ahzoh wrote:
CrazyEttin wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:
CrazyEttin wrote:Socially constructed != fake.
How do they not equate?
A language creator who thinks social constructs are fake. This might be the most ironic thing i’ve ever seen.
If something is fake (as opposed to real) then it isn't as... "real"... as something like skin colour or sex. It's not really there per se, rather it floats in the minds of people whereby they project it onto reality.
And perhaps language is also fake in this regard, since we describe the world with words, which aren't real.

But it can be argued whether some fake thing is a "useful fiction" or not. The person whom I mentioned earlier that I was debating was arguing that gender was useless fiction and that the views of transgendered people regarding gender was simply in their head and a matter of identity politics, like Rachel Dolezal being "transracial".
At this point i’m going to stop wasting my time: learn how to google.
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Ahzoh
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Re: Gender ideology in languages

Post by Ahzoh » Mon 03 Oct 2016, 17:24

Googling isn't going to do anything. I'm presenting an argument here and you make no effort to challenge it.
You have yet to explain how social construct does not equate to fake. I have at least explained my understanding of fake.
...Maybe fake is not the right antonym of real.
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Xonen
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Re: Gender ideology in languages

Post by Xonen » Mon 03 Oct 2016, 20:05

Ahzoh wrote:...Maybe fake is not the right antonym of real.
Probably not, but seems to me like the bigger problem might be that you're using rather idiosyncratic definitions for both of those words. That makes having a normal conversation rather difficult.
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Re: Gender ideology in languages

Post by Salmoneus » Sat 08 Oct 2016, 21:15

I'm sorry to be the grumpy guy here, but.... dear gods, you people are onto page three? And I don't think I've found more than at most two posts in a row that seem to directly and honestly respond to the content of any other!

It's not that hard, people: you say what your thesis is, and then you give evidence and/or argument for it. Ideally, making clear what you intend your terms of art to mean. Then someone else disputes either your evidence or your argument, in order to call into question your thesis.

All this muttering around, throwing up hands expressively, trotting out unconnected facts (true or false) and replying with non sequiturs, this is not going to result in any concrete progress. Particularly in an emotive (if horrifically badly-defined) subject area like this one.

So what is anybody actually trying to say?
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Ahzoh
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Re: Gender ideology in languages

Post by Ahzoh » Sat 08 Oct 2016, 22:22

Noted, but you could also just let this thread die... it was dumb and pointless to begin with.
Last edited by Ahzoh on Sat 08 Oct 2016, 23:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Axiem
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Re: Gender ideology in languages

Post by Axiem » Sat 08 Oct 2016, 22:58

Ahzoh wrote:Noted, but could also just this thread die... it was dumb and pointless to begin with.
[+1]
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