3Cons Natlangs in RL; small patterned groups of roots

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eldin raigmore
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3Cons Natlangs in RL; small patterned groups of roots

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 06 Nov 2017, 03:26

I am looking for certain examples of sets of roots in RL 3Cons natlangs.
For each phenomenon, I'd like the same natlang to have more than one example; and I hope some responder will tell me what natlang has them and what they are and what they mean.
(But if you only know one example, please tell me what it is!)
It'd be nice if, for each phenomenon, I could get more than one natlang that attests it.

1. Is there a natlang 3Cons with six consonants R1, R2, R3, R4, S1, and S2, such that:
1a. Of the four consonant patterns
R1-R2-S1,
R1-R2-S2,
R3-R4-S1, and
R3-R4-S2,
three of them are well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, but the remaining consonant pattern is not a root in the language?

1b. The four consonant patterns
R1-R2-S1,
R1-R2-S2,
R3-R4-S1, and
R3-R4-S2,
are all well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, but it is impossible, given the meanings of any three of them, to even come close to correctly guessing the meaning of the remaining root?

1c. The four consonant patterns
R1-R2-S1,
R1-R2-S2,
R3-R4-S1, and
R3-R4-S2,
are all well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, and it is possible, given the meanings of any three of them, to close-to-correctly guess the meaning of the remaining root?

2. Is there a natlang 3Cons with six consonants R1, R2, R3, R4, P1, and P2, such that:
2a. Of the four consonant patterns
P1-R1-R2,
P2-R1-R2,
P1-R3-R4, and
P2-R3-R4,
three of them are well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, but the remaining consonant pattern is not a root in the language?

2b. The four consonant patterns
P1-R1-R2,
P2-R1-R2,
P1-R3-R4, and
P2-R3-R4,
are all well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, but it is impossible, given the meanings of any three of them, to even come close to correctly guessing the meaning of the remaining root?

2c. The four consonant patterns
P1-R1-R2,
P2-R1-R2,
P1-R3-R4, and
P2-R3-R4,
are all well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, and it is possible, given the meanings of any three of them, to close-to-correctly guess the meaning of the remaining root?

3. Is there a natlang 3Cons with six consonants R1, R2, R3, R4, P, and S, such that:
3a. Of the four consonant patterns
P-R1-R2,
R1-R2-S,
P-R3-R4, and
R3-R4-S,
three of them are well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, but the remaining consonant pattern is not a root in the language?

3b. The four consonant patterns
P-R1-R2,
R1-R2-S,
P-R3-R4, and
R3-R4-S,
are all well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, but it is impossible, given the meanings of any three of them, to even come close to correctly guessing the meaning of the remaining root?

3c. The four consonant patterns
P-R1-R2,
R1-R2-S,
P-R3-R4, and
R3-R4-S,
are all well-formed and attested and meaningful roots in the language, and it is possible, given the meanings of any three of them, to close-to-correctly guess the meaning of the remaining root?
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Re: 3Cons Natlangs in RL; small patterned groups of roots

Post by eldin raigmore » Sun 12 Nov 2017, 04:59

1. Are there, in any 3Cons natlang, examples of two roots with exactly the same consonants; but with the order of the last two consonants changed?
Such as C1-C2-C3 and C1-C3-C2 ?
If so, which RL 3Cons natlangs, and which roots, and what are their glosses?

2. Are there, in any 3Cons natlang, examples of two roots with exactly the same consonants; but with the order of the consonants reversed?
Such as C1-C2-C3 and C3-C2-C1 ?
If so, which RL 3Cons natlangs, and which roots, and what are their glosses?

3. Are there, in any 3Cons natlang, examples of two roots with exactly the same consonants; but with the order of the first two consonants changed?
Such as C1-C2-C3 and C2-C1-C3 ?
If so, which RL 3Cons natlangs, and which roots, and what are their glosses?

4. Are there, in any RL 3Cons natlang, examples of two roots, such that consonants of one of them are similar to those of the other, but with some features of two of the consonants exchanged with each other?
Like, maybe, k-t-b and k-d-p? Or m-l-k and p-l-n? Or s-l-m and n-l-f? Or something like that?
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Re: 3Cons Natlangs in RL; small patterned groups of roots

Post by Davush » Sun 12 Nov 2017, 15:49

I think Arabic has examples for most of those in the latest post:

1) Q-R-B قرب (to approach) and Q-B-R قبر (to bury)

2) B-Q-R بقر (cattle) and R-Q-B رقب (to oversee, keep watch) or R-Q-Ṣ رقص (to dance) and Ṣ-Q-R صقر (hawk, eagle)

3) Q-R-B قرب (to approach) and R-Q-B رقب (to oversee, keep watch) R-Q-Ṣ (to dance) and Q-R-Ṣ (to scratch, sting)

4) There are probably loads of examples of this especially with plain/pharyngealized pairs, but I don't think the exchanging has any specific patterns. Maybe N-K-L (to recoil) and N-Q-R (to dig, pierce) would be an example. Or Q-R-Ṣ (to sting) vs K-R-S (chair, to lay the foundations).
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Re: 3Cons Natlangs in RL; small patterned groups of roots

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 13 Nov 2017, 21:39

Davush wrote:
Sun 12 Nov 2017, 15:49
I think Arabic has examples for most of those in the latest post:
1) Q-R-B قرب (to approach) and Q-B-R قبر (to bury)
2) B-Q-R بقر (cattle) and R-Q-B رقب (to oversee, keep watch) or R-Q-Ṣ رقص (to dance) and Ṣ-Q-R صقر (hawk, eagle)
3) Q-R-B قرب (to approach) and R-Q-B رقب (to oversee, keep watch) R-Q-Ṣ (to dance) and Q-R-Ṣ (to scratch, sting)
4) There are probably loads of examples of this especially with plain/pharyngealized pairs, but I don't think the exchanging has any specific patterns. Maybe N-K-L (to recoil) and N-Q-R (to dig, pierce) would be an example. Or Q-R-Ṣ (to sting) vs K-R-S (chair, to lay the foundations).
Thanks very much, Darvush! --- Is there any wordplay in Arabic literature about any such word-pairs?
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