Surprising cognates

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Shemtov
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Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » Sun 26 Nov 2017, 23:36

This is a thread for cognates with different meanings, but are not so phonologically close as to be considered "False Friends".
:fra: <Cher> "dear" vs. :esp: :ita: :por: <Caro> "Expensive" vs. :kur: /ka:ja/ "game" vs. :eng: <Whore> :deu: <Hure> "Whore" :swe: <Hora> "Whore" :dan: :nor: <Hore> "Whore :rus: :mkd: :bul: :blr: :ukr: :srb: <ку́рва> "Whore" :cze: :lit: :hun: <Kurva> "Whore" :pol: <Kurwa> "Whore" :alb: <Kurvë> "Whore" :rou: <curvă> "Whore" Yiddish /kurvə/ "Whore"
All from PIE *keh₂ "To desire"
Last edited by Shemtov on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 04:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 27 Nov 2017, 02:09

:fra:
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 27 Nov 2017, 05:11

shimobaatar wrote:
Mon 27 Nov 2017, 02:09
:fra:
Are you saying that the French language as a whole is a surprising cognate, or was this simply a typo?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by sangi39 » Mon 27 Nov 2017, 05:18

GrandPiano wrote:
Mon 27 Nov 2017, 05:11
shimobaatar wrote:
Mon 27 Nov 2017, 02:09
:fra:
Are you saying that the French language as a whole is a surprising cognate, or was this simply a typo?
Shemtov originally used the Quebec flag for the French language, saying they couldn't find just the flag of France. I think Shimobaatar was saying we do have one. OP's been edited now so there's no context [:P]
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Mon 27 Nov 2017, 05:38

Ah, that makes sense, then.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 27 Nov 2017, 06:17

sangi39 wrote:
Mon 27 Nov 2017, 05:18
GrandPiano wrote:
Mon 27 Nov 2017, 05:11
shimobaatar wrote:
Mon 27 Nov 2017, 02:09
:fra:
Are you saying that the French language as a whole is a surprising cognate, or was this simply a typo?
Shemtov originally used the Quebec flag for the French language, saying they couldn't find just the flag of France. I think Shimobaatar was saying we do have one. OP's been edited now so there's no context [:P]
Bingo. I should have quoted what the flag was in response to, but for some reason it didn't occur to me that the context might be edited away later.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » Mon 27 Nov 2017, 18:23

Yeah, I should have made a note of the edit, or replied to Shimobaatar's post by saying "Thanks, you gave me the flag. Fixed now."
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by clawgrip » Tue 28 Nov 2017, 00:44

:eng: temper
:jpn: てんぷら tempura

:lat: temperare → OE temperen :eng: temper
      → :por: temperar: tempero/tempera:jpn: tempura


:eng: head
:jpn: 瓦 kawara "roof tile"

PIE *kapōlo → PIE *kauput- → PG *haubudą → OE hēafod:eng: head
     → Indo-Aryan kapā́las → Sanskrit कपाल kapāla‎:jpn: 瓦 kawara
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by clawgrip » Tue 28 Nov 2017, 03:47

:ara: جبة jubbah "Arab traditional outer garment"
:jpn: 襦袢 juban "Japanese traditional inner garment"

From Arabic via :por: gibão/jubão "Old Portuguese garment" ??
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Tue 28 Nov 2017, 05:18

This might not be exactly what you were looking for, but I was pretty surprised to find out that Chinese languages had any cognates with European languages other than perhaps the word "China" dating back to any earlier than the past century or two. As it turns out, there are (possibly) at least two:

(Using the Mandarin pronunciations, though these characters primarily appear in compound words in Mandarin rather than as words on their own)

:chn: 丝 sī (traditional 絲) "silk"
:eng: silk

:chn: Old/Middle(?) Chinese 絲 *sɨ (reconstructed Middle Chinese pronunciation) → :chn: Mandarin 丝/絲 sī (and its equivalents in other Sinitic languages)
                                   → :grc: Σήρ (Sḗr) "the Seres" (i.e. northern Chinese) → :grc: σηρικός (sērikós) "silken" → :lat: sericus "silken" → (unclear intermediate steps) → :eng: OE sioloc, seoloc, seolc:eng: English silk


:chn: 蜜 mì "honey"
:eng: mead

PIE *médʰu "honey; mead" → Proto-Tocharian *ḿət(ə):chn: Old Chinese 蜜 *mit "honey" → :chn: Mandarin 蜜 mì (and its equivalents in other Sinitic languages)
            → Proto-Germanic *meduz "mead" → :eng: OE medu, meodo:eng: English mead


(These etymologies are from Wiktionary, and are all hypothetical)
Last edited by GrandPiano on Wed 29 Nov 2017, 02:03, edited 1 time in total.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by clawgrip » Tue 28 Nov 2017, 07:37

Personally I think these are pretty interesting, and they fit the thread title of "surprising cognates" (they're the same type of thing as what I posted as well).

Here is another one:
:eng: know
:jpn: 禅 zen

PIE *ǵneh₃- → PG knēaną → OE cnāwan:eng: know
      → Sanskrit ज्ञा jñā "know": ज्ञान jñāna‎ "knowledge" → Middle Chinese 禪 d͡ʑiᴇn:jpn: 禅 zen
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor » Tue 28 Nov 2017, 11:42

clawgrip wrote:
Tue 28 Nov 2017, 00:44
:eng: head
:jpn: 瓦 kawara "roof tile"

PIE *kapōlo → PIE *kauput- → PG *haubudą → OE hēafod:eng: head
     → Indo-Aryan kapā́las → Sanskrit कपाल kapāla‎:jpn: 瓦 kawara
You can add :idn: Indonesian kepala, (also from Sanskrit) which is not suprising because is has a different meaning (It also means head.), but because it looks like an Indonesian word, it doesn't look like 'head' and because I still find borrowing of body parts a bit crazy (I know, a lot of European languages did it, though.).


Edit: Also :idn: bahasa :lat: fās
PIE: *bʰéh₂-os ~ *bʰéh₂-es-os 'speak, say' → :lat: fas 'the will of god'
     → PIA: *bʰāṣā → Sanskrit: भाषा bhāṣā:idn: bahasa 'language'

:idn: bahu 'shoulder' :deu: Bug ' bow, prow (of a ship)'
PIE: *bʰeh₂ǵʰus 'arm' →PG: *bōguz 'arm, shoulder' → OHG: buog 'animal shoulder' → :deu: Bug
     → PII: bʰaHĵʰúš 'arm' → Sanskrit बाहु bāhu 'forearm' → :idn: bahu 'shoulder'


:idn: bumi 'earth' :eng: be

PIE: *bʰewH 'to become, grow, appear' → PG: *beuną 'to be, to become' → Old English: bēon:eng: be
     → PII: *bʰávati → Sanskrit भू bhū 'to become' → Sanskrit भूमि bhūmi 'stage, limit; earth' → :idn: bumi 'earth'

:idn: desa 'village' :eng: toe

PIE: deyḱ 'to point out' → PG: taihwǭ 'toe' → :eng: toe
     →PIA: daiśás 'point, region, part' → देश deśá 'point, region, spot, place, part, portion' → :idn: desa 'village'
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 17:47

This is theoretical, but Shekel (the Israeli currency) and Scallion are related. Shekel comes from the Semitic root ʃ-q-l "To weigh", meaning "Weighable currency" while Scallion comes from Latin <caepa Ascalonius> "Ashkelonian Onion" and "Ashkelon" probably means "the city of weighing", also from ʃ-q-l , given its ancient status as a center of trade
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 20:56

:idn: pria 'young man' and :eng: friend

PIE: *priHós 'beloved' → PG: *frijaz 'free' → frijōną 'to love' → *frijōndz 'loved one' → :eng: friend
     → Sanskrit: प्रिय priya 'dear, sweetheart'→ :idn: pria 'young man'
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov » Sun 03 Dec 2017, 04:50

Baphomet and :isr: /ħɛmdaθ jɔmijm/ (Tiberian) /xɛmdat jamijm/ (Israeli) /xɛmdas jɔmijm/ (Ashkenazi) "Lit. [Most] Desired of days; A poetic title of the Sabbath". Baphomet seems to be a corruption of Arabic Muḥammad, whom the crusaders falsely believed was a Demonic "Islamic Deity" and Muḥammad comes from the Semitic root ħ-m-d "Desire" as does /ħɛmdaθ jɔmijm/.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Dormouse559 » Fri 22 Dec 2017, 08:47

English fraught and freight are cognate. They both ultimately come from Middle Dutch vracht/vrecht. It seems as though fret (in the sense of a marker on a guitar) may also be connected, through French. But I get conflicting answers on its etymology.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by eldin raigmore » Fri 22 Dec 2017, 10:17

@Dormouse; that "fraught" and "freight" are cognate does not surprise me. That "fret" is (or might be) cognate to both of them does!
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Adarain » Wed 10 Jan 2018, 14:34

:che: kheia “to fall” as well as :lux: geheien “to throw” are cognate with :nld: huwen “to marry”, from *hīwijaną “to marry”. No cognate in Standard German that I am aware of, and the English cognates have also fallen out of use. This comes from a sequence of pretty wild semantic shifts that can be traced in old documents between Old High German (where it still meant “marry”) and the modern varieties and it goes something like this “to marry” → “to copulate, fuck” → “to rape” → “to plague” → “to hit” → “to throw” (→ “to fall”), all within about a millenium at best. Luxembourgish seems to accept some of the older semantic variants still, whereas in Swiss German (read: at least in my dialect) it prototypically definitely means “to fall” but can be used as “to throw” when used with some adverbial of directionality.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Creyeditor » Wed 10 Jan 2018, 21:35

I think the first part of 'Heirat' is distantly related via PGmc 'hiwô'.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by sangi39 » Thu 11 Jan 2018, 02:53

Creyeditor wrote:
Wed 10 Jan 2018, 21:35
I think the first part of 'Heirat' is distantly related via PGmc 'hiwô'.
Wiktionary at least agrees with you. It's from *hiwô + *raidīniz
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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